“There wasn’t much but I wanted a penalty against Nashville” UPD Tim Peel early retirement PART 2

[Ted Hoffman]

They can't fire Peel. Or else the referees union will file a grievance, and then all of the league's dirty laundry will come out in that grievance (including evidence that shows the NHL instructs their referees to manage games in a certain way).

The NHL doesn't want that coming out because that is the type of scandal that will make the league look fixed and rigged to the public.

This needs to go to HF Bad Legal Takes. I'm curious exactly how that information is going to come out if the NHLOA filed a grievance, considering that:

• any grievance would only deal with whether the league followed proper procedures in terminating the employment of the official in question
• the contents of those discussions are specifically prohibited from being disclosed to any 3rd party
• if it went to arbitration, the arbitrator would be prohibited by both the terms of the CBA and by professional conduct rules from disclosing the contents of any comments made during the arbitration process
• the legal counsels for both the NHL and NHLOA are sure as hell not violating their professional conduct rules by doing something that violates their duties to represent their respective parties
• if Peel wanted to skip the grievance procedure and file a lawsuit, he forfeits his right to any severance and NHL-paid medical and dental benefits beyond release as spelled out in the CBA [spoiler: a court is unlikely to let him attempt to claim those benefits back in a lawsuit, especially if he skipped the grievance procedure and went straight to court]

So ... how is all this salacious information going to come out in a grievance?

 

[Off Sides]

All the owners of NHL teams have read this, and the last thread and they still believe game management will make the league more revenue overall.

 

[lottster14]

Dumb.

 

[ALLCAPSALLTHETIME]

The Seattle Mariners president was basically fired for talking about teams purposely not calling players up to the Major Leagues in order to not start the clock on service time towards free agency. It is well known that all teams in baseball do this but it is never publically talked about.

Same in hockey. We all know that game management and "evening things up" has been happening for many years. You just don't talk about it. Peel did and got fired.

I wish they could fire the awful Colin Campbell. Truly a blight on the game.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The Seattle Mariners president was basically fired for talking about teams purposely not calling players up to the Major Leagues in order to not start the clock on service time towards free agency. It is well known that all teams in baseball do this but it is never publically talked about.

Well, yes - he did say that. No - that's not what really got him basically fired. [He officially resigned; I'm not convinced based on how the organization handled a prior matter mentioned below that they really would have fired him anyway - they likely would have "reassigned" him to some do-nothing position for whatever was left of his contract.] What got him in hot water was saying things like:

For instance, we just rehired Iwakuma; he was a pitcher with us for a number of years. Wonderful human being; his English was terrible," Mather said. "He wanted to get back into the game; he came to us. We quite frankly want him as our Asian scout/interpreter, what's going on with the Japanese league. He's coming to spring training. And I'm going to say, I'm tired of paying his interpreter. When he was a player, we'd pay Iwakuma 'X,' but we'd also have to pay $75,000 a year to have an interpreter with him. His English suddenly got better. His English got better when we told him that.

And, on Mariners prospect Julio Rodriguez:

Julio Rodriguez has got a personality bigger than all of you combined. He is loud. His English is not tremendous.

And, this gem on the neighborhood around T-Mobile Park:

I worry about the neighborhood. You know, we have employees that show up at 4:15 and leave at 10 o’clock at night and there’s not enough parking, so I can get away with charging $30, $40, $50 to park in my tiny little parking garage across the street, so I don’t let my employees park there. I have them park down on the other side of [Lumen Field, the Seahawks stadium]. And so I hire police to escort them to their cars. We got to do something about our neighborhood. I worry about once this [pandemic] is behind us, getting people to come to T-Mobile Park.

Those + more, on top of prior allegations of harassment toward female employees that the Mariners said were previously dealt with. The remark about admitting they're manipulating service time? It's that obvious, everyone knows it's going on. Admitting it wasn't the problem. Disparaging players, disparaging the area, bragging about being able to milk money out of people? That's what got him shit-canned caused him to resign.

 

[eramosat]

Not exactly sure what the verdict is.
Head #1 says it's very bad what Peel did.
Head #2 (former NHL player) says it's reasonable what Peel did.
Head #3 (former NHL goalkeeper) says they're split between liking game management like Peel as opposed to "robotic" calling of infractions according to the rule book and his fear of doing nothing would affect the new gambling aspects??
Head #4 (former semi-pro referee) tangent-ed off into how important is was for officiating, the only part of the hockey ecosphere without a stake in the outcomes, needed to be brought along with all the other members of the ecosystem. I understand the intent, but it was poorly outlined.

So. Perfectly muddled picture, as should be expected from such a muddled situation.

I think on ice NHL officiating is just fine. And pissed off that anyone thikning the introduction of gambling somehow introduces a new "higher standard" that needs addressing.

 

[Chips]

There is huge middle ground between calling every single ticky tacky little thing, and selectively choosing to call one team or the other, or not, based on the score or the clock or because one team massively outplaying the other has “too many powerplays”

 

[Sol]

Why can't we have the officials call violations as they happen regardless of the score? There's no middle ground here.

 

[Pandemonia]

Why can't we have the officials call violations as they happen regardless of the score? There's no middle ground here.

Maybe because we'd never go more 30 seconds without another penalty being called? Just guessing here.

 

[Sol]

Maybe because we'd never go more 30 seconds without another penalty being called? Just guessing here.

So the refs calling penalties at their own discretion is a better idea than teams catching on and playing more in line with the rulebook? What the heck...

 

[eramosat]

Maybe because we'd never go more 30 seconds without another penalty being called? Just guessing here.

Bingo. There is simply no way to use the official rulebook to call penalties without resulting in an exodus to the penalty box. In any hockey league, let alone the NHL, where players have fine-tuned the art of minimizing, and drawing, calls to a fine art.

NHL refereeing is simply excellent. Despite missed calls both directions that get noticed.

 

[eramosat]

So the refs calling penalties at their own discretion is a better idea than teams catching on and playing more in line with the rulebook? What the heck...

Yes. Referees calling penalties on the ice at their own discretion is best. Because it can simply never be any other way...there will always be discretion involved.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

I don't think Bieksa's point was that it was reasonable. I think he was saying that all referees do this, so it was strange to throw Peel under the bus like that.

 

[2Pair]

Maybe because we'd never go more 30 seconds without another penalty being called? Just guessing here.

This just isn't true. The NHL/refs determine where the line is between fair/penalty. NHL players are going to play right on that line. If the NHL/refs move the line in either direction, the players will adjust the way they play accordingly.

The problems that you will have if they decide to just start calling the rule book, is you will have many more blowout games when one team is just clearly better than the other on that night.

 

[Sol]

Yes. Referees calling penalties on the ice at their own discretion is best. Because it can simply never be any other way...there will always be discretion involved.

So you must love Tim Peele as a ref because that kind of logic is what ends up giving refs too much power and control over a game.

This whole notion of there being too much penalties is completely ridiculous. Just like NHL teams adapted to 3v3 ot systems, they can surely adapt to the game being called by rules. I'd rather have a fair game than an unfair one. Seems like that's lost upon those who want to gives officials discretion.

 

[mad4comp]

Yes. Referees calling penalties on the ice at their own discretion is best. Because it can simply never be any other way...there will always be discretion involved.

Then you might as well allow refs to bet on games.

 

[DustyMartellaughs]

I just knew Ron was going to say something nonsensical.

 

[Confused Turnip]

So the refs calling penalties at their own discretion is a better idea than teams catching on and playing more in line with the rulebook? What the heck...

Or just fixing the rulebook if the claim is it's broken. Either way an unofficial patch of game management is bad.

 

[stealth1]

This just isn't true. The NHL/refs determine where the line is between fair/penalty. NHL players are going to play right on that line. If the NHL/refs move the line in either direction, the players will adjust the way they play accordingly.

The problems that you will have if they decide to just start calling the rule book, is you will have many more blowout games when one team is just clearly better than the other on that night.

I see nothing wrong with that. It was that way the year after the lockout. It also helps let the elite players show their speed and skill. Imagine McDavid having games like Gretzky had more nights then he does now.

 

[mad4comp]

This just isn't true. The NHL/refs determine where the line is between fair/penalty. NHL players are going to play right on that line. If the NHL/refs move the line in either direction, the players will adjust the way they play accordingly.

The problems that you will have if they decide to just start calling the rule book, is you will have many more blowout games when one team is just clearly better than the other on that night.

Are you saying this is an issue.. or just stating the fact? Because quite honestly, I don't see the problem with this. Because the same logic you used about NHL/refs moving the line in either direction and forcing the players to adjust accordingly would work for GM's and coaches that are stingy and won't spend money on their team thinking they only lost by a goal or two night in and night out. If they keep losing viewership and fans by getting blown out... maybe that might be enough of an incentive to make their team(s) better?

 

[stealth1]

Are you saying this is an issue.. or just stating the fact? Because quite honestly, I don't see the problem with this. Because the same logic you used about NHL/refs moving the line in either direction and forcing the players to adjust accordingly would work for GM's and coaches that are stingy and won't spend money on their team thinking they only lost by a goal or two night in and night out. If they keep losing viewership and fans by getting blown out... maybe that might be enough of an incentive to make their team(s) better?

Agreed. Parity has killed hockey. People want to se dominate teams not a bunch of mediocre equal ones. Seeing elite players be elite players is what draws fans. Having them clutched and grabbed all night sucks.

 

[Tanknation]

I wish it was Sutherland, that dude despises the Canucks for some bizarre reason, especially in playoff games. When a fanbase starts to become too familiar with a ref’s name, you know he’s a problem.

Montreal fans say, "Hi Chris Lee"

 

[Confused Turnip]

Just want to remind everyone that Burrows was crucified in the media a decade ago for calling out Auger, and publicly ridiculed by Ron MacLean for having the balls to stand up to this bullshit.

Ron MacLean has spent his entire career as a bagman for the old boys. It's sad how spineless he is.

 

[TaLoN]

Future NHL ref here

That looks like Tim Peel call for sure! Glad to see he found employment quickly...

 

[Doc McKenna]

Star players aren't head hunters like those guys were. This is why they were always going to be treated more harshly be the refs. If Mcdavid hits someone from behind does he deserve the same kind of scrutiny as Matt Cooke did? You can tell which one of them was doing it intentionally based on reputation. Refs can still make reputation calls, that's not necessarily a bad thing to keep those players in check.

Star players are just as dirty, i used the worst of the worst. You did exactly like ref. A call is a call, regardless of who did it. Marchand is a notorious rat and gets away with a lot that would land a goon in front of the review board much more easily. Why should he get different treatment on a slew leg than cooke. A kick is a kick.

Chara for years would be sighted as a clean player bevause they would always pass on his suspensions. So despite a number of times being before the board, because of no "priors" he would again get off with no suspension. ( Not picking on them because of boston just great players gettting a pass) you would also note chara is less likely to get a suspension than marchand because of his better rep. But it doesnt change a dirty play.

Think of it like your driving record. You are driving like a crazy person. Maybe you got a great personality or the officier is of the opposite sex and lets you off on a warning because your record is clean. This happens 4 times in a month or two.

Yet another driver has a violation for rolling through a 4 way and another for driving 120 in a 100 in the last year. Maybe one of the quota tickets that " dont exist". Much like managing the game, If you get pulled over and they see 2 infractions, and you may not have been pulled over outside of those 2 events , they may still assume you also got let go or had your penalty reduced on a occasion, clearly you haven't learned your lesson. Ticket for you.

Now the same guy has 3 marks on his license while the first one has been pulled over seven times and only had a failure to show insurance or something minor. Next time both are pulled over who is more likely to get the ticket given the same cop in the same mood? The guy with 3 strikes will more likely get a ticket than the guy pulled over more but never getting the ticket. We also know the bad driver is just really good at making a case to not be punished, even if they are almost definitely the more likely to commit again.

Sure there is that drunk driving Clutterbuck with 3 tickets for speeding, 4 for passing on the right and 20 parking infractions. But it doesnt mean that his doing 115 in a 100 is worse than Crosby driving 90 in a school bus loading zone. In the nhl the one guy keeping up with traffic, but with a record will easily get a penalty from his small infraction. Meanwhile crsoby hit a small chiled, but only winged her, so he gets off with community service.