Value of: Zucker for Brassard?

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
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Rather have the C.

Makes no sense for either team. Brassard and Zucker are very similar in terms of production...Brassard being the C gives him the edge for me. But Minnesota shouldn't be looking to trade a younger player who is in his prime for a 30 yr old.
 

Bazeek

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Yeah, no. Zucker is younger, better, a RFA and Minnesota has the cap space to sign him.

Even worse, just saw you think Zucker will sign with Pittsburgh for $4.7m average. Minnesota is expecting in that $5-6m range.

@Bazeek you were right about the cap thing.
Never fails. I expect even after he signs his extension there'll be people waiting for us to make a trade to "make room." God only knows what for.

Brassard would be nice, but there's no room. I certainly wouldn't want to give up Zucker for him.
 

TaLoN

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Wild up against the cap after the signing of Dumba. Probably can't squeeze Zucker in. Pens have a plethora of centers after the signing of Grant. Wild a bit short at the center position. Brassard probably looking for $6m plus on a long-term deal. Pens can't do that for a 3rd line center. Brassard just $3m right now and squeezes right in under the cap for the Wild.

Thought process here is you can go Jake/Crosby/Sprong, Zucker/Malkin/Hornqvist, Hagelin/Sheahan/Kessel, Cullen/Grant/Rust



PIT trades Derick Brassard to Wild for Jason Zucker


Zucker takes a slight discount and agrees to 5 years, $23.5m
Just FYI - the Wild have $7m in cap space and ONLY Zucker left to sign, who will be in well UNDER $7m.

Not sure why the Wild HAVE to do anything here. They are comfortably under the cap.
 

DemidovSaveUs

Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
May 2, 2018
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Wild up against the cap after the signing of Dumba. Probably can't squeeze Zucker in. Pens have a plethora of centers after the signing of Grant. Wild a bit short at the center position. Brassard probably looking for $6m plus on a long-term deal. Pens can't do that for a 3rd line center. Brassard just $3m right now and squeezes right in under the cap for the Wild.

Thought process here is you can go Jake/Crosby/Sprong, Zucker/Malkin/Hornqvist, Hagelin/Sheahan/Kessel, Cullen/Grant/Rust



PIT trades Derick Brassard to Wild for Jason Zucker


Zucker takes a slight discount and agrees to 5 years, $23.5m

Omg dude this makes my head want to explode. No. Just no.
 

DemidovSaveUs

Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
May 2, 2018
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Centers are more valuable than wingers and the Wild don't have any centers. The Penguins have a better shot at winning the cup than the Wild so you take less money
We don’t want brassard because he would add nothing we don’t have. We have Staal, Koivu, JEE, plus Coyle and even Granlund when we need. Not trading Zucker for him.

Plus I think Zucker is more likely to take a discount in MN since he’s married to a public figure and has roots down here in the community.
 

DemidovSaveUs

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Koivu is on the downside. He'd play 3C. And Brassard is a solid 1st/2nd line center as is Staal. Eriksson Ek would slide into left wing

Stop. No. Brassard is not a 1/2C. We want JEE to be a center in this league, so we’re going to use him there. Brassard is a downgrade for a position we don’t need to add to. Age matters. And I honestly don’t think anything you’ve said in this thread makes sense.
 

Nickmo82

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Mar 31, 2012
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Every proposal I have seen by a Pens fan trying to move Brassard has been completely lopsided in Pittsburgh's favour.

Also, it's disingenuous to suggest Brassard is "still a 60pt player". He got 60 points once in his career.

I loved him on the Rangers, when he was truly in his prime, but he isn't worth what Pens fans want for him, centre or not.
 

Dr Quincy

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Jun 19, 2005
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Let's say you resign Brassard at $6m that kicks in next year. He counts just $3m this year. The Wild are $5.6m under the cap right now and if you sign him to $5.5-6m you don't have any wiggle room. And your centers are still poop.

This gives you $2.6m in cap room
MIN centers are poop huh?
Brassard has 144 pts in last 3 years.
Staal has 180
Koivu has 159

This deal is not fair and reveals deep homer tendencies. Nevermind that it doesn't fill any needs of MIN nor does it accurately reflect the cap situation that you try to describe.
 

2Pair

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Oct 8, 2017
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We don’t want brassard because he would add nothing we don’t have. We have Staal, Koivu, JEE, plus Coyle and even Granlund when we need. Not trading Zucker for him.

Plus I think Zucker is more likely to take a discount in MN since he’s married to a public figure and has roots down here in the community.
Granlund can't play center, Coyle is needed at RW, and Eriksson Ek was terrible last year. The Wild could most definitely use a guy like Brassard.

I don't see any chance of the Wild moving Zucker to get him, unless Pittsburgh were to add a significant piece.
 

Wildfish13

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Mar 18, 2018
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E.Ek's last year were disappointing for a Wild fan when you look at points, but if you watched the games it was obvious the kid has great potential. IMO he's going to be a significant, upper-echelon NHL Center.

It's good to have ideas, but not all ideas are good. This trade proposal would be dead in the water with the Wild, no need to repeat the numerous obvious reasons, they've been posted here. Brassard is going to be looking for a big money deal after next season, no way the Wild would invest in him over Zucker, so Zucker for a one and done "OK" guy? Easy NO.
 
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Flyerfan52

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May 3, 2012
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Just FYI - the Wild have $7m in cap space and ONLY Zucker left to sign, who will be in well UNDER $7m.

Not sure why the Wild HAVE to do anything here. They are comfortably under the cap.
It looks like the Pittsburgh fans have buyers regret after giving up a 1st rounder+ for Brassard. Their team finagled a way to get him under the cap by imvolving LV but he didn't help enough to keep the Pens from falling to the Caps. Particulary insulting was a poster saying Zucker would sign @ 1/2 in Pitts but play hardball with the team he's been with his entire pro career & the city that has become his home. As the Minnesota fans keep saying they have no need for Brassard but want to keep Zucker.
For some reason the fans in bigger cities seem to think smaller 1s are ripe for bad trades. The fans in smaller centers are usually more invested & knowledgable about their team than the fairweather fans that only support a winning team.
The Wild are in good shape to re-sign Zucker & have a good bunch of young/prime age players. That's why we're seeing threads where other teams try to poach Zucker, Coyle, Dumba, etc.
Minny management & fans are unlikely to get the wool pulled over their eyes. 1st year GM Fenton trained under the shrewd Poile while the fans know their hockey as well as as fans in the league.
The Wild play in the division that produced the top 2 point getting teams in the league & were 8th themselves (ahead of 10th place Pens BTW). They are a good team.
I'm not a Wild fan as they are both a division & geographical rival to my hometown Jets but I'll certainly give credit where due.

BTW, most of the players Pittsburgh tanked so hard for have been traded & Crosby/Malkin aren't getting any younger. It won't be long until they need to pull out the handbook on being bad enough to draft a Lemieux & Crosby 1st OA . During that time in the basement the arena there will be empty again.
 

DemidovSaveUs

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May 2, 2018
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Granlund can't play center, Coyle is needed at RW, and Eriksson Ek was terrible last year. The Wild could most definitely use a guy like Brassard.

I don't see any chance of the Wild moving Zucker to get him, unless Pittsburgh were to add a significant piece.
Adding another player in the 50-60 point range only does one thing for us: take time away from the youngster when they need decent minutes to develop. We can’t keep playing JEE on the 4th line and expecting him to get better.
 

2Pair

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Oct 8, 2017
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Adding another player in the 50-60 point range only does one thing for us: take time away from the youngster when they need decent minutes to develop. We can’t keep playing JEE on the 4th line and expecting him to get better.
Eriksson Ek was given 50+ games on the 3rd line last year. He failed so badly that Cullen was forced into the role. I think Eriksson Ek can and will become a good player for the Wild, but if he doesn't show significant development from last season, the Wild can't afford to have him in the lineup.
 

3074326

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Apr 9, 2009
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while true, a 33g/64pt 26 year old LW is still >> a 21g/46pt 31 year old C

also after seeing the stupid money given to guys like Kane and JVR why is Zucker taking 2.5 less coming off a career year better than either guy has had?

just doesnt make sense.

Brassard, Sprong, maybe even add a 2nd or 3rd. now we are getting somewhere

I was in 100% agreement until the last lines.

Lol, no ****in way the difference between Zucker and Brass is Sprong and a pick, and I'm using the same logic you are.
 

jay caufield forhead

Registered User
May 17, 2014
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not telling you
ok lets look at who started this thread, got his name now go back and look at some of his previous proposals/ comments about pens players they are 99% ridiculous or have pure pens homer-ism in them. there is not a team in the nhl that doesnt have these kind of fans.


It looks like the Pittsburgh fans have buyers regret after giving up a 1st rounder+ for Brassard. Their team finagled a way to get him under the cap by imvolving LV but he didn't help enough to keep the Pens from falling to the Caps. Particulary insulting was a poster saying Zucker would sign @ 1/2 in Pitts but play hardball with the team he's been with his entire pro career & the city that has become his home. As the Minnesota fans keep saying they have no need for Brassard but want to keep Zucker.
For some reason the fans in bigger cities seem to think smaller 1s are ripe for bad trades. The fans in smaller centers are usually more invested & knowledgable about their team than the fairweather fans that only support a winning team.
The Wild are in good shape to re-sign Zucker & have a good bunch of young/prime age players. That's why we're seeing threads where other teams try to poach Zucker, Coyle, Dumba, etc.
Minny management & fans are unlikely to get the wool pulled over their eyes. 1st year GM Fenton trained under the shrewd Poile while the fans know their hockey as well as as fans in the league.
The Wild play in the division that produced the top 2 point getting teams in the league & were 8th themselves (ahead of 10th place Pens BTW). They are a good team.
I'm not a Wild fan as they are both a division & geographical rival to my hometown Jets but I'll certainly give credit where due.

BTW, most of the players Pittsburgh tanked so hard for have been traded & Crosby/Malkin aren't getting any younger. It won't be long until they need to pull out the handbook on being bad enough to draft a Lemieux & Crosby 1st OA . During that time in the basement the arena there will be empty again.

no buyers remorse he was injured and had a bad playoff he will bounce back dont sweat it. we are not. the wild are in great good shape and have no reason to make this trade.

(Yawn. Mod edit.)
 
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Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
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Rather have the C.

Makes no sense for either team. Brassard and Zucker are very similar in terms of production...Brassard being the C gives him the edge for me. But Minnesota shouldn't be looking to trade a younger player who is in his prime for a 30 yr old.

The similarity of Brassard and Zucker's production, is similar to the similarity of Jake Guentzel and Sam Gagner's production.

Zucker 12 more goals, 18 more pts than Brassard.
Guentzel 12 more goals, 17 more pts than Gagner.

And Gagner can play C. So clearly that means that you would rather have Gagner right?

<Eagerly awaiting the moving of goalposts.... and no I don't think Gagner is close to Guentzel>
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,611
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The similarity of Brassard and Zucker's production, is similar to the similarity of Jake Guentzel and Sam Gagner's production.

Zucker 12 more goals, 18 more pts than Brassard.
Guentzel 12 more goals, 17 more pts than Gagner.

And Gagner can play C. So clearly that means that you would rather have Gagner right?

<Eagerly awaiting the moving of goalposts.... and no I don't think Gagner is close to Guentzel>

Thing called context, yo.

Brassard missed 10 games.

Zucker had 46 EV points
Brassard had 40 EV points(in 72 games)


Zuckers 5v5 points per 60(2.4)
Brassard's 5v5 points per 60 (2.2)


similar.


Guenztel blows Gagner out the water in EV strength production.
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
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Thing called context, yo.

Brassard missed 10 games.

Zucker had 46 EV points
Brassard had 40 EV points(in 72 games)


Zuckers 5v5 points per 60(2.4)
Brassard's 5v5 points per 60 (2.2)


similar.


Guenztel blows Gagner out the water in EV strength production.
Yup. I called it. Moving the goalposts. You didn't mention even strength as a caveat the first time. Why don't you let me know what your criteria is going to be ahead of time

And I love the "per 60 argument". Those REAL goals and assists that Zucker scored count the same as the imaginary goals and assists Brassard would have scored. Gee, and I wonder who is likely to play more games in the future?

Brassard missed 10 games? Gagner missed 8. Seems like there are more and more similarities.

Oh and there's a little thing called context. Guentzel and Brassard play on the Pens with elite scorers. Gagner didn't. Quality of Teammates is an important stat when comparing production. You know... context.

But if you want, I'll be happy to find another C who had 15-20 less pts than Guentzel. But even then it will be...... move them darn goalposts!
 

Ban Hammered

Disallowed & Inhibited
May 15, 2003
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Opportunity. Minutes. Not playing with Conor Sheary mucking up the play when he's not falling over his own skates. Brassard is still a 60 pt center if he gets minutes and isn't playing with a darsh
We. Don't. Want. Brassard.
 

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