Value of: Zucc/Brassard/Klein

[CHGoalie27]

It's really not that laughable. Many people in this thread have Bishop ahead of Lundqvist or right behind him.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2093199&highlight=goalie+rankings&page=3

Bishop had a 2.06 GAA this past season. Lundqvist the past 3 seasons he's been at a 2.48, 2.25 and 2.36.

And a SV% of .926, where Hank hasn't beensince the lockout shortened year.

Eye test, stats, whatever. There is no shame in saying Bishop has surpassed Lundqvist.

That is just my opinion (which the Vezina voters happen to share, Bishop was 2nd, Lundqvist not even in the top 10), anyway. Maybe I'm just overrating Bishop coming off his best season and underrating Lundqvist coming off his worst. But that's how things work these days: what have you done for me yesterday, blah blah blah. And the Lightning for a better part of the season were struggling mightily with a bunch of injuries, and a drop in production from Stamkos.

Kucherov, Hedman and Bishop carried that team on their backs for the majority of the season.

Either way, there has been a rise in goaltending all across the league. Dallas is probably the only team in the league that doesn't have a very good goalie currently in net or in the pipeline.

Needing an elite #1C and elite #1D to be a contender has become the new needing an elite goalie.

LOL (<laughable). When Lundqvist gets Stralman back or has anything as good as Stralman, Garrison, Hedman, or Coburn in front of him, let us know. Just the same, let us know when any of Bishops' guys are as much of a hindrance as Girardi was in the reg, as well as Staal and Yandle were in the playoffs.

Eye test having complete opposite results as the stats, not exactly whatever.

I hate the trophy politics too. Trophy votes are obviously by stats/numbers, none of these people are actually guaranteed to even have taken the time to read into what they vote for. Sounds like real life politics to me as well. Holtby deserved it, but if anyone cared to pay attention to South Florida, it was a joke that Luongo wasn't nominated. There goes that.

In no way am I saying Bishop isn't worth a damn, because I defended the likes of Chris Osgood forever. They do the job regardless of how much help they have.

To all this I say for the 100th time, let's just suppose for a second just what Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Cujo, Beezer, and Richter would have done behind the luxury Brodeur had...

 

[JT Kreider]

LOL (<laughable). When Lundqvist gets Stralman back or has anything as good as Stralman, Garrison, Hedman, or Coburn in front of him, let us know. Just the same, let us know when any of Bishops' guys are as much of a hindrance as Girardi was in the reg, as well as Staal and Yandle were in the playoffs.

Eye test having complete opposite results as the stats, not exactly whatever.

I hate the trophy politics too. Trophy votes are obviously by stats/numbers, none of these people are actually guaranteed to even have taken the time to read into what they vote for. Sounds like real life politics to me as well. Holtby deserved it, but if anyone cared to pay attention to South Florida, it was a joke that Luongo wasn't nominated. There goes that.

In no way am I saying Bishop isn't worth a damn, because I defended the likes of Chris Osgood forever. They do the job regardless of how much help they have.

To all this I say for the 100th time, let's just suppose for a second just what Hasek, Roy, Belfour, Cujo, Beezer, and Richter would have done behind the luxury Brodeur had...

Fine whatever. That wasn't even the point of my original posts.

Lundqvist is or will be soon starting his inevitable decline.

And Lundqvist alone isn't good enough to carry this team to a championship.

This roster is extremely flawed, it is mediocre, and we'll on paper/barring a miracle be one of the worst teams in the East within 3 years. It won't happen this season. Barring a total Lundqvist collapse or an injury, we'll probably be in WC contention. Maybe even the 3 seed if teams like the Devils and Hurricanes don't progress as planned and the Islanders take a step back after losing some key pieces.

And to avoid sounding like a contradiction, there is a huge difference between Lundqvist being good enough to get us into the postseason, and Lundqvist being good enough to carry us to a Cup.

As of now, this organization seems directionless with no plan. If the plan is to go into the season with this roster (and it seems to be that way), well good luck with that. As if last year wasn't bad enough, and not just the postseason. Those losses in Edmonton and getting shutout in Otttawa (after OTT had given up like 20 combined goals in the last 5 games prior), were probably the lowest I've felt as a Ranger fan since Callahan and Dubinsky, first broke into the league. That was insanely frustrating and was the point of no return for me with this core and AV. The writing was on the wall.

I'm not suggesting to make a trade for the sake of making a trade. But trading any of the above players, Nash, Lundqvist, anyone would at least show a desire to get younger. A desire to make some obviously much needed changes.

Or as I said a much simpler solution would've been to fire AV. He had about the most pathetic season a coach could ever have. Mostly ever established player we have had the worst seasons of their careers or regressed hard. And we had our worst playoff showing since 2006. Does the fact that it came against the Penguins who basically steam-rolled their way to the Cup (outside of the one blip of starting MAF that Game 5) give him and this team some lee-way? Maybe it does.

But it certainly shouldn't because all you had to do was lose that game against Detroit (when AV actually challenged a goal LOL that clown), and you avoid Pittsburgh. Not that the results would've been any different against Florida or TB.

 

[TGWL]

Lundqvist is 34. There's no shame is admitting other goalies have surpassed him at this point. Excuses are just excuses. Blame the D. I don't think anybody is putting Bishop above a prime Lundqvist. Goalies age, and not every goalie can be 6'7.

The way Henrik started the first 10 games or so last season, he looked like the best goalie in the NHL, and this is coming off a season where Price was arguably the best player in the NHL. We can blame the defense, or maybe he just can't keep that play up at his current age.

 

[bernmeister]

Looking to see value for Zucc, Brassard, Klein and possibly McD.

For a re-tool they are the "older" players that the organization should look to move because their values are pretty high and signed to good contracts.

Rangers would be looking for prospects that are on the cusp of making it, players on ELC or players just coming off their ELC.

McD I included because he would net the largest return but there would need to be a bit of an over payment.

Rangers would be looking for RHD, potential top 6 center or winger with a solid goal scoring touch.

KUDOS to OP for having the balls to add his voice to mine on this score, at last the truth is being spoken

just one add:

None, add Kreider and Steps and those are the 5 guys you don't trade.

Wrong x one half
keep Kreider, also Miller, and young core
add Stepan to vet core we move
remember Stepan earns NMC after this season, so to defeat that he must be traded
the longer we delay the inevitable, the more bargaining power switches vs Rangers. That doesn't mean he must be dealt day after tomorrow, but it does mean gorton can't wait until the very last minute at end of season

All those who have a man-crush on Stepan, bend, buckle and break to that reality.

 

[WesMcCauley]

KUDOS to OP for having the balls to add his voice to mine on this score, at last the truth is being spoken

just one add:



Wrong x one half
keep Kreider, also Miller, and young core
add Stepan to vet core we move
remember Stepan earns NMC after this season, so to defeat that he must be traded
the longer we delay the inevitable, the more bargaining power switches vs Rangers. That doesn't mean he must be dealt day after tomorrow, but it does mean gorton can't wait until the very last minute at end of season

All those who have a man-crush on Stepan, bend, buckle and break to that reality.

If NYR Are rebuilding Stepan's NMC and salary doesnt really matter because he is still young enough to keep and the cap wont be a problem if we Are rebuilding. Keeping a worse player by far, Who is only one year younger and plays a less important position(Kreider) makes no sense unless we Are tanking which will never happen

 

[mrinsane]

Brassard could be a great add on Habs lineup. DD(Cap dump)+Hudon+Condon+2nd pick 2017 and 4th round pick 2018?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Brassard could be a great add on Habs lineup. DD(Cap dump)+Hudon+Condon+2nd pick 2017 and 4th round pick 2018?

Definition of quantity that's not quality. There will be no cap dumps since Brassard has a great contract, don't need a goalie.

Good young players that are either prospects about to make the jump or players on ELC/going into second contract.

 

[JT Kreider]

Brassard could be a great add on Habs lineup. DD(Cap dump)+Hudon+Condon+2nd pick 2017 and 4th round pick 2018?

Definitely not.
-We don't need to take a cap dump back for Brassard.
-We don't need Condon our goaltending pipeline is probably the strongest part of our farm.
-Can definitely do better than Hudon a 2nd and a 4th.

I'd expect the package to be a young established player (Jarnkrok) AND an almost ready NHL prospect (Fiala, Kamenev, Doughtery) and a 2nd.

 

[Lundy HOF]

I honestly could be mistaken but didn't Lundqvist just lead the league in 5v5 save %?