Zubov vs Gonchar vs Andrei Markov

[Kshahdoo]

Who out of these three was a better player at his best?

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[Hobnobs]

Who out of these three was a better player at his best?

Zubov and I dont even think its all that close.

 

[MaxV]

Zubov, he should be in HHOF imo.

One of those situations where his reputation of offence-only followed him, despite the fact that his game was 2-way later in his career.

 

[GMR]

Zubov. Not sure if he'll get into the HHOF, but the other two players have no chance to get in. The only knock on him has been his defensive play and the fact that he was never one of the two or three best defensemen in the league. He was largely overshadowed by other defensemen throughout his career. I don't remember if he was ever even nominated for a Norris.

 

[MXD]

Zubov was the best in that group, but am I the only one who would rather trust Markov than Gonchar with big minutes despite the latter earning significantly more accolades during his career??

 

[GMR]

Zubov was the best in that group, but am I the only one who would rather trust Markov than Gonchar with big minutes despite the latter earning significantly more accolades during his career??

How many "big minutes" has Markov played in his career? Montreal always seems to lose in the early rounds. Gonchar has played in a few Finals at least.

 

[unknown33]

Zubov, he should be in HHOF imo.

One of those situations where his reputation of offence-only followed him, despite the fact that his game was 2-way later in his career.

Zubov and Gonchar are better than Housley for sure.

 

[MXD]

How many "big minutes" has Markov played in his career? Montreal always seems to lose in the early rounds. Gonchar has played in a few Finals at least.

How many HHOF forwards did Markov play with during his career?

 

[MXD]

Zubov and Gonchar are better than Housley for sure.

...Yeah, despite what I said on Gonchar (compared to Markov), he was indeed quite a bit better than Housley.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Gonchar came around to be a better defensive player as his career matured...much more reliable than the early Capitals version.

Zubov is still the best of the bunch, had the most offensive upside and didn't have the lowest floor. Gonchar packed a lot of offensive upside, showed some maturity to his game later in his career. Softest of the bunch with the lowest floor.

Markov more reliable two-ways, not as good of a skater as the other two, limited puck carrying ability compared to the other two. Game-in, game-out is less prone to major defensive errors. Played in much more defensive systems over the life of his career. Lowest ceiling, but a high floor.

That's how I size them up very roughly.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Gonchar came around to be a better defensive player as his career matured...much more reliable than the early Capitals version.

Zubov is still the best of the bunch, had the most offensive upside and didn't have the lowest floor. Gonchar packed a lot of offensive upside, showed some maturity to his game later in his career. Softest of the bunch with the lowest floor.

Markov more reliable two-ways, not as good of a skater as the other two, limited puck carrying ability compared to the other two. Game-in, game-out is less prone to major defensive errors. Played in much more defensive systems over the life of his career. Lowest ceiling, but a high floor.

That's how I size them up very roughly.

Yeah, and look at where he is amongst all time best Montreal defenders in scoring. And the team had some of the greatest ones...

 

[Michael Farkas]

I will look if you present the data

 

[MXD]

I will look if you present the data

Well I think he's second behind Big Bird right now.

 

[Hobnobs]

He's third, however Brisbois is 6th. Canadiens never really had an offensive defenseman post-expansion. Thats why. The two guys in front of him are both from post-expansion (Robinson and Lapointe) and all the players behind are pre-expansion except Savard and Chelios. Chelios has better PPG. I doubt anyone will rank Markov top-10 even if its only offense. Habs had too many great defensemen in the O6.

Btw hes 6th in PPG out of players who played 100+ games with the habs.

 

[MXD]

He's third, however Brisbois is 6th. Canadiens never really had an offensive defenseman post-expansion. Thats why. The two guys in front of him are both from post-expansion (Robinson and Lapointe) and all the players behind are pre-expansion except Savard and Chelios. Chelios has better PPG. I doubt anyone will rank Markov top-10 even if its only offense. Habs had too many great defensemen in the O6.

Btw hes 6th in PPG out of players who played 100+ games with the habs.

...You made me double-check : Markov and Lapointe are actually tied.

 

[Hobnobs]

...You made me double-check : Markov and Lapointe are actually tied.

I counted Lapointe ahead because he scored more goals.

 

[MaxV]

How many HHOF forwards did Markov play with during his career?

I was going to reply to your previous post with this, but this one might be more appropriate.

I can't speak about Gonchar's Caps' years and at the end of his career he was mediocre, but there wasn't a single period of Markov's career which compares to Gonchar's Pens' years.

I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree here. Gonchar was great in Pittsburgh, 2-way great. His importance to those teams is understated.

 

[Rebels57]

All-around

Zubov > Markov > Gonchar

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

1. Zubov
2. Gonchar
3. Markov

I think there are pretty clear distinctions between them.

 

[GMR]

How many HHOF forwards did Markov play with during his career?

Point is, there's not a lot of big game experience to gauge him by. I know it's not his fault that the Canadiens haven't had a top tier forward in several decades.

 

[MXD]

Point is, there's not a lot of big game experience to gauge him by. I know it's not his fault that the Canadiens haven't had a top tier forward in several decades.

Actually, having seen about 95% of Markov's NHL games, the biggest issue with him is probably playoff performance.

 

[Moose Head]

Markov peaked later. Probably because he was a center converted to dman in his late teens. Unfortunate that his horrible injuries occurred just when he hit that peak. IMO that peak year was as good or better than zubov or gonchar at their best. Really reminded me of a lesser Lidstrom. But career wise Zubov and Gonchar were better IMO. Markov should have been better with better luck with injuries and team.

 

[Moose Head]

Actually, having seen about 95% of Markov's NHL games, the biggest issue with him is probably playoff performance.

Problem is given the habs circumstances, they've never been able to effectively manage his minutes. He runs out of gas.

 

[MXD]

Problem is given the habs circumstances, they've never been able to effectively manage his minutes. He runs out of gas.

...Because he's not a physical specimen and never was a great skater to begin with, even before his trifecta of straight annus horribilis. It's probably the big difference between him and Zubov.

But every team in the salary cap era would've played Markov around 24-25 minutes a night. There was no real reason to manage his minutes earlier than, say, 2014 (from that point on : fair game; he can still be on your first pairing, tweaks are needed though, and is now significantly better suited to Bottom-4 duties). And it's also quite easier to play 24-25 minutes behind Crosby and Malkin or Modano and Nieuwendyk/Arnott than it was to do so behind Plekanec and Desharnais.

He still always disappointed just about everyone in the playoffs.

 

[Sentinel]

I will disagree and put Zubov below Markov in all-around play. He was a turnover machine. Markov and late era Gonchar were better defensively. Zubov was better than them offensively and not as injury-prone, but he also played on some loaded squads. When other blueliners on your team are Leetch and Hatcher and your goalies are Richter and Belfour, you're not gonna get exposed as much as others. So overall

Zubov = Markov
Gonchar