Zubov and the New York Rangers?

Kurt Cobain

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Mar 30, 2004
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Why on earth did the Rangers trade a Sergei Zubov who was about to enter his prime and who already had a cup and a 90 point season under his belt? Was he taking attention away from Leetch? Was there a salary cap dispute? Was he a liability defensively? I know he wasn't by the time he was on Dallas that's for sure and those Rangers teams of the 90s weren't known for stellar defense abilities anyway. Did something else happen? It just fathoms my mind you could trade this guy the way they did. Or was it Neil Smith being Neil Smith, something tell me that's my answer. Can a Rangers fan elaborate?

They traded a barely 25y.o. Zubov and a 23y.o Nedved for 29y.o. Luc Robitaille and Ulf Samuelsson who was 31y.o. at that time. What a **** trade for the Rangers. Nedved gets traded back to the Rangers but they had to trade Kovalev for him. Luc had one fantastic season followed by his worst year of his career up to that point, then he gets traded for an aging Kevin Stevens. Samuelsson was Samuelsson was always a plus player, chip in offensively occasionally and would always do something dirty eventually.

Zubov goes on to be one of the best defensman of his generation and in my opinion very undderrated if not the most underrated defensman of the last 30 years. Possibly the greatest Russian defensman ever, unless I'm forgetting someone. Could you imagine throwing Leetch and Zubov out there constantly. Both players were capable of playing almost 30 mins a night. Idk if they would have worked as a pair I feel like it would have been better to throw them one out there after the other a 1a - 1b situation 5 on 5. Having one of them out the almost 90% or the game would have been rough to say the least. That constant pressure from the backend would have driven teams crazy.

I'm a Devils fan so I'm happy things didn't go that way and Neil Smith was a moron. Can anyone think of a better one two punch offensively from the backend cause I can't. Idk how great they would have been defensively together if they were paired. Leetch could get the job done even though he was nothing special defensively and idk about Zubov on the Rangers, but by the time he was is Dallas he was an elite 2 way defenseman. I can remember him playing around 50 mins during some of those overtimes against the Devils in the 2000 Cup Finals. He was just so impressive.

People talk about the Rangers getting rid of Amonte, Weight, Marchand etc. at such young ages but those trades helped them win a cup. If I were a Rangers fan this is the one that would really **** me off, trading Zubov did nothing for them. They also threw in a young Nedved just to make it worse. Then they give up a slumping Kovalev to get Nedved back. What awful asset management. I just think it's one of those what could haves and even if there is no second cup for the Rangers, I don't think there's anyway in hell they miss the playoffs from 98 - 06 consecutively. They also would have been very very entertaining.
 
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c9777666

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The Kovalev trade was also egregious once Kovalev found himself in Pittsburgh and Nedved didn't quite match his 45 goal 1996 form.
 

Kurt Cobain

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Mar 30, 2004
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The Kovalev trade was also egregious once Kovalev found himself in Pittsburgh and Nedved didn't quite match his 45 goal 1996 form.

Yeah I remember the Kovalev deal he started off the year terrible and I think they gave up on him sometime in December. Then that's where he found his old form. I just feel like if it wasn't for the Zubov deal you already have Nedved who the Rangers stole from the Blues imo and they still have Kovalev. It's just a bad deal all around that started a minor chain reaction. Sergei Zubov was elite to say the least and he was a warrior. His playoff stats are just something else for a defensman, especially one playing for the defensive minded Stars during the so called dead puck era. The guy was doing everything and playing 30+mins a night come playoff time. Guy was a beast.
 
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Feed Me A Stray Cat

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Mar 27, 2005
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Yeah I remember the Kovalev deal he started off the year terrible and I think they gave up on him sometime in December. Then that's where he found his old form. I just feel like if it wasn't for the Zubov deal you already have Nedved who the Rangers stole from the Blues imo and they still have Kovalev. It's just a bad deal all around that started a minor chain reaction. Sergei Zubov was elite to say the least and he was a warrior. His playoff stats are just something else for a defensman, especially one playing for the defensive minded Stars during the so called dead puck era. The guy was doing everything and playing 30+mins a night come playoff time. Guy was a beast.

All while ripping butts in between periods.
 

Johnny Engine

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Jul 29, 2009
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You mean post-USSR, right? 1991-present.

Zubov would probably be the greatest defenseman to come out of the Russian Federation, into the NHL. The best defenseman born in Russia would be (barf) Slava Voynov (rushes off to clean myself).

I can't think off the top of my head who the best defenseman, or player born in the Russian Empire would be - Sologubov, Bobrov - all those guys were born in the 1920s, and my knowledge of Soviets who were older than that is fuzzy at best.
 

reckoning

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Jan 4, 2005
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The trade was talked about in this thread http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1941473

Rangers coach Colin Campbell was critical of Zubov (he still had lapses in his defensive play and wasn't very physical on the ice). Obviously, the trade looks bad in hindsight. But Pittsburgh trading Zubov to Dallas the next season looks worse.
 

Kurt Cobain

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Mar 30, 2004
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You mean post-USSR, right? 1991-present.

What I meant to put was greatest Russian defensman to play in the NHL. For example: Fetisov was the better defensman but I think it's safe to say Zubov was the superior NHL player.
 

Theokritos

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Apr 6, 2010
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I can't think off the top of my head who the best defenseman, or player born in the Russian Empire would be - Sologubov, Bobrov - all those guys were born in the 1920s, and my knowledge of Soviets who were older than that is fuzzy at best.

There weren't too many who were older than that. Tarasov himself was born in late 1918, Arkady Chernyshov (whose career as a player of Canadian hockey lasted from 1946 to January 1947) in 1914. The best player born in the Russian Empire would probably have to be Sweeney Schriner (*1911) who moved away from Russia when he was one month old. But this is leading us a bit off topic.

What I meant to put was greatest Russian defensman to play in the NHL. For example: Fetisov was the better defensman but I think it's safe to say Zubov was the superior NHL player.

Yes, that makes sense.
 

Kurt Cobain

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Mar 30, 2004
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The Rangers as a whole were pretty bad in 1994-95; they go from dominating on the way to winning a Cup one year to finishing under .500 the next. I think they had a 7- or 8-game losing streak at one point, and they were terrible in close games.

Nedved was brutal (I think he had two goals and six or seven points at the halfway point), and Zubov was heavily criticized for putting up points on the power play and being mostly mediocre outside of that. His decision making on the ice in particular was questioned regularly.

The Rangers signed Bruce Driver and Ray Ferraro as free agents, and the trade happened shortly afterward. I recall Neil Smith saying something about not having goal scoring from the wing since trading Mike Gartner, and that Driver could replace Zubov's offense while Samuelsson would bring the defensive skill that was lost when Jay Wells left. If Driver/Samuelsson replaced Zubov and Ferraro replaced Nedved, then trading both of them would seem to make sense.

The Rangers still made the playoffs that year and even made it to the second round upsetting number 1 seed Quebec. Zubov put up 36 points in 38 games and while Leetch put up 5 more points he did in 10 more games. Feels like the Rangers just made a trade for the sake of making and trade which was something that seemed to go on regularly during Neil Smith's reign. As a Devils fan the idea that Driver could replace Zubov offensively is pretty funny. Driver at that point was still effective, he could skate, he did put up over 30 points 3 years in a row for the Rangers and probably better defensively than Zubov at that point at least but still to give up a defensman who put up 125 points in 116 games the past two season, one being a lockout and is young is so crazy. Driver wasn't that old but he had a lot of mileage on him there's a reason we moved on from him.

Neil Smith loved veterans I don't think he could help himself when the Penguins offered Robitaille and then Samuelsson on top of that. Two veterans who had name recognition was to much for a GM who had no patience whatsoever. If those were his real reasons he was a much worse GM than I even thought. Ferraro didn't even finish the season before he was traded out of New York.

Pittsburgh trading him for Kevin Hatcher was also not the best move. Although Hatcher did have three solid seasons with the Penguins.

Idk I think the Russian factor mattered more than we think especially back then. I'm fairly certain he could speak English when he was on the Rangers. The Leetch factor I think player a role; first you have two similar players and you don't want your blonde hair blue eyed all American boy getting outplayed by this funny looking little Russian.

How much would a 25 year old right handed defensman who's put up 90 points in a season, has a Cup and a shortened season where he was a PPG? The offered would have been outrageous. Basically like Erik Karlsson being put on the trade block.

I've just always went back to this trade with the Rangers maybe cause I'm a fan of one of their biggest rivalries, but I'm a hockey fan first. This is that one trade where you can look and say this is th beginning of a team that's already overage and here they our trading away two of their best young roster players, along with Kovalev and a very young Mattias Nordstrom.
 

Michel Beauchamp

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There weren't too many who were older than that. Tarasov himself was born in late 1918, Arkady Chernyshov (whose career as a player of Canadian hockey lasted from 1946 to January 1947) in 1914. The best player born in the Russian Empire would probably have to be Sweeney Schriner (*1911) who moved away from Russia when he was one month old. But this is leading us a bit off topic.



Yes, that makes sense.

To continue on the off topic track:

Look at this trade: May 31, 1939 David "Sweeney" Schriner traded from New York Americans to Toronto Maple Leafs for Frank "Buzz" Boll, Harvey "Busher" Jackson and Elwyn "Doc" Romnes.

Trade of nicknames. I could not help smiling.
 

vadim sharifijanov

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Oct 10, 2007
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i think people are forgetting how much the young zubov was basically steve duchesne or mathieu schneider, and also how plentiful that kind of not especially well-rounded offensive defenseman was at the time: on top of those guys, jeff brown, zalapski, iafrate, olausson... and all the way down to the guys who were useless in their own end like kurvers, galley, hawgood, maciver. those players were all passed around the league like hockey cards in that era.

if you already had a HHOF-level offensive guy on your team (leetch), it's understandable that you'd trade zubov away for help in other areas (scoring depth, veteran defensive presence). it was a very bad trade, obviously, but you can see why they would do it.
 

billybudd

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Feb 1, 2012
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Not sure about the Rangers (though I will say that Samuelsson was viewed as a quasi-star defensive D at the time), but Pittsburgh traded Zubov having something to do with personality/locker room, as well as his refusal to shoot through open lanes on the PP. For some reason, he just didn't get along with the Mario/Francis/Jagr/Barrasso core, though nobody's ever publicly specified what the exact problem was.


Until Hitch got a hold of Zubov, he made Phil Housley look like a defensively sound Dman.

That's a pretty gross exaggeration.
 

Don'tcry4mejanhrdina

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Aug 4, 2003
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This space.
Zubov was awesome :laugh:

I have an inexplicable respect for NHL players who smokes.Just bad ass all around, as stupid as it is.They don't make a lot of these anymore.

"Everybody knows that smoking kills but it's cool, what are you gonna do? Everybody loves tar. Sure! Who doesn't? But scientists have known for well over a year that it's bad for you."

Still can't believe they traded Zubov for Hatcher....
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
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It's interesting that Pittsburgh had the following:
1993-94 - 4th in scoring, 18.8% power play
1994-95 - 2nd in scoring, 19.0% PP
1995-96 - 1st in scoring, 26.0% PP (with Zubov)
1996-97 - 1st in scoring, 21.8% PP

From 1995-96 to 1996-97:
Lemieux - 31+48 on the power play to 15+22
Jagr - 20+31 on the PP to 11+14
Francis - 12+42 on the PP to 10+24

i don't have any concrete memory of watching the pens that year but does anyone else have first-hand memory of that unit? those numbers are eye-opening. calgary-esque.

it must have been:

nedved/sandstrom mario jagr
zubov francis

right?


can you imagine that unit's numbers if kevin stevens was still around and in his peak, pre-rich pilon form?
 

Neutrinos

Registered User
Sep 23, 2016
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The Rangers made a lot of questionable trades back then

Doug Weight to Edmonton for Tikkannen

Tony Amonte for Brian Noonan and Stephane Matteau

Even the Gartner for Anderson trade was kinda odd since Gartner was the superior goal scorer at the time

It's almost as if they were determined to deal away all the players who would've been included in the Lindros trade


It would be interesting to see what their lineup would've looked like had they kept their young assets
 
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Rhiessan71

Just a Fool
Feb 17, 2003
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That's a pretty gross exaggeration.


Maybe that was a lil too harsh.
Point is that he was horrendous in his own zone, took too many chances and left his D partners out to dry far too often.

Even later in his career, he wasn't a guy that won too many battles behind his own goal line or in front of his own net but at least his positioning was sound and he no longer took unnecessary chances.

He literally learned how to play defense in the NHL and that certainly didn't happen overnight.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
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That Ranger team made a lot of poor moves prior and after the Cup win in 1994. I know they get a lot of miles for winning that year but it cost them a lot.
 

dimi19

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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You should read up on Viacheslav Fetisov.

I'm not being snarky - he had a fascinating career and it's worth your time.

fetisov was great for sure. but the majority of his greatness was in the russian league and in international play.

i would modify the zubov statement by saying the he is arguably the greatest nhl russian defenseman.
 

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