Ziggy Palffy Versus Alex Kovalev

[GlitchMarner]

Just vote for the better player, taking into account peak, prime, longevity, talent, accomplishments, awards etc.





Bracket A:



Fleury (4-0: defeated Kovalev, Marleau, Roberts and LeClair in round one. 1-0: defeated Elias in round two.)
Hossa (3-2: defeated Recchi, Tkachuk and Mogilny, received a bye; lost to Robitaille and Shanahan in round one. 0-1: lost to Alfredsson in round two.)

Mogilny (4-3: defeated Whitney, LeClair, Marleau and Tkachuk; lost to Recchi, Shanahan and Hossa in round one. 1-0: defeated Kovalev in round two.)
Naslund (4-2: defeated Bondra, Bertuzzi, Kovalev and Demitra; lost to Alfredsson and Elias in round one. 1-0: defeated Palffy in round two.)

Shanahan (4-0: defeated Tkachuk, Recchi, Hossa and Mogilny in round one. 1-0: defeated Robitaille in round two.)
Elias (4-1: defeated Hejduk, Naslund, Tkachuk and Recchi; lost to Alfredsson in round one. 0-1: lost to Fleury in round two.)

Palffy (4-1: defeated Bondra, Nolan, Demitra and Damphousse; lost to Robitaille in round one. 0-1: lost to Naslund in round two.)
Kovalev (4-2: defeated Damphousse, Brind'Amour, Bondra and Hejduk; lost to Fleury and Naslund. 0-1: lost to Mogilny in round two.)






Eliminated players:

Nolan (0-4: lost to LeClair, Bondra, Palffy and Whitney)
Allison (0-4: lost to Zhamnov, Tanguay, Yashin and Smyth)
Recchi (1-4: defeated Mogilny; lost to Shanahan, Robitaille, Hossa and Elias)
Amonte (1-4: defeated Gagne; lost to LeClair, Hejduk, Roberts and Whitney)
Gagne (1-4: defeated Smyth; lost to Amonte, Zhamnov, Yashin and Tanguay)
Bertuzzi (1-4: defeated Whitney; lost to Roberts, Marleau, Naslund and Brind'Amour)
Smyth (1-4: defeated Allison; lost to Roberts, Gagne, Whitney and Weight)
Hejduk (2-4: defeated Amonte and Tanguay; lost to Elias, Alfredsson, Bondra and Kovalev)
Tanguay (2-4: defeated Allison and Gagne; lost to Marleau, Weight, Hejduk and Zhamnov)
Roberts (3-4: defeated Smyth, Bertuzzi and Amonte; lost to Fleury, Marleau, Koivu and LeClair)
Tkachuk (3-4: defeated Demitra, LeClair and Weight; lost to Shanahan, Hossa, Elias and Mogilny)
Yashin (3-4: defeated Allison, Gagne and Zhamnov; lost to Demitra, Koivu, Damphousse and Weight)
Whitney (3-4: defeated Smyth, Nolan and Amonte; lost to Bertuzzi, Mogilny, Bondra and Zhamnov)
Koivu (3-4: defeated Yashin, Zhamnov and Roberts; lost to Weight, Damphousse, Demitra and Brind'Amour)
Marleau (3-4: defeated Tanguay, Bertuzzi and Roberts; lost to Fleury, Alfredsson, Mogilny and Damp

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[Hockey Outsider]

One advantage that Palffy has is consistency. From ages 23 to 33 (ten NHL seasons), only once did he score less than a point per game (and even then it was 0.94 PPG). For all his talent, Kovalev only scored 1 PPG three times in his career. Even using a much lower standard of 0.80 PPG, his longest streak was only four years in a row. On top of that, Palffy has four seasons as a top ten scorer - Kovalev only achieved that once.

Despite that, I'll go with Kovalev. There's a huge difference in longevity (Kovalev played in 632 additional regular season games). Palffy only played in two half-seasons after turning 30; Kovalev had one great season, two very good ones, and a few weaker ones, which gives him much more value over the course of his career. Kovalev actually ties Palffy 4-4 when looking at seasons as a top twenty scorer, then has 10 of the next 14 seasons between the two of them. I'd rather take a decade's worth of solid seasons from Kovalev (even if I know he's capable of more), rather than Palffy being better on a per-game basis, but missing so many games.

More importantly, Kovalev was a very good playoff performer. From 1994 to 2009, he was 14th in playoff scoring (11th among forwards). Every player ahead of him (except Zubov and C. Lemieux) are Hall of Famers. Palffy was good on a per-game basis but I have to evaluate his playoff career as "incomplete" since he only played 24 post-season games.

 

[GlitchMarner]

One advantage that Palffy has is consistency. From ages 23 to 33 (ten NHL seasons), only once did he score less than a point per game (and even then it was 0.94 PPG). For all his talent, Kovalev only scored 1 PPG three times in his career. Even using a much lower standard of 0.80 PPG, his longest streak was only four years in a row. On top of that, Palffy has four seasons as a top ten scorer - Kovalev only achieved that once.

Despite that, I'll go with Kovalev. There's a huge difference in longevity (Kovalev played in 632 additional regular season games). Palffy only played in two half-seasons after turning 30; Kovalev had one great season, two very good ones, and a few weaker ones, which gives him much more value over the course of his career. Kovalev actually ties Palffy 4-4 when looking at seasons as a top twenty scorer, then has 10 of the next 14 seasons between the two of them. I'd rather take a decade's worth of solid seasons from Kovalev (even if I know he's capable of more), rather than Palffy being better on a per-game basis, but missing so many games.

More importantly, Kovalev was a very good playoff performer. From 1994 to 2009, he was 14th in playoff scoring (11th among forwards). Every player ahead of him (except Zubov and C. Lemieux) are Hall of Famers. Palffy was good on a per-game basis but I have to evaluate his playoff career as "incomplete" since he only played 24 post-season games.

Good summary as usual, Outsider.

I want to vote for Palffy because he did more with his talent than Kovalev did with his when he actually played, but it's tough to ignore all that additional longevity Kovalev had; and of course there were seasons where Kovalev did seemingly did put everything together as well (albeit not a whole lot).

I'm glad you mentioned that Kovalev was a strong playoff performer. I took note of that as well and it's one of these things I've given him credit for in some of his match-ups in this tournament. It's kind of a saving grace for that makes up for his inconsistency during the regular season.

I'll go with AK as well.

 

[Felidae]

I still have to choose Palffy. As stated above, Palffy was more consistent by such a significant margin and ticks off both superior prime and peak (By a close but decisive margin) that it's difficult for me to vote for Kovalev on the basis of sheer longevity. Which I don't value much when determining who the "better" player was.

And to further emphasize Palffy's superior consistency, here are his team scoring finishes which conveniently also provides evidence for his superior peak and prime. But also further support the "value" argument with Kovalev.

1995-96
Palffy, 87
Green, 70
Schneider, 47

1996-97
Palffy, 90
Green, 60
Smolinski, 56

1997-98
Palffy, 87
Reichel, 65
Berard, 45

1998-99
Reichel, 56
Palffy, 50 (50gp)
Linden, 47

1999-00
Robitaille, 74
Palffy, 66
Murray, 62

2000-01
Palffy, 89 (73 gp)
Robitaille, 88
Smolinski, 59

2001-02
Allison, 74
Deadmarsh, 62
Palffy, 59 (63 gp)

2002-03
Palffy, 85
Schneider, 43
Smolinski, 38

2003-04
Robitaille, 51
Frolov, 48
Klatt, 43
Palffy, 41 (35 gp)

Excluding his first two seasons and his last, he was never below a top 5 scorer, and his last season he was 6th with 42 games played.


Here's Kovalev in comparison

1993-94 and 94-95, 2006, 07, 6th in points on team

1995-96, 5th in points

1996-97, 8th in points

1997-98
Gretzky, 90
Lafontaine, 62
Kovalev, 53

1998-99
Jagr, 127
Straka, 83
Titov, 56
Kovalev, 46 ( Played 63 games and was traded )

1999-00
Jagr, 96
Kovalev, 66
Lang, 65

2000-01
Jagr, 121
Kovalev, 95
Straka, 95

2001-02
Kovalev, 76 (67 gp)
Hrdina, 57
Lang, 50

2002-03
Lemieux, 91
Kovalev, 64 ( traded to NYR, 54 gp)
Straka, 46

2003-04
Holik, 56
Messier, 43
Kovalev, 42 (66 gp, traded to montreal)

2005-06
Kovalev, 65
Koivu, 62
Ryder, 59

2007-08
Kovalev, 87
Plekanec, 69
Streit, 62

2008-09
Kovalev, 65
Markov, 64
Koivu, 50

2009-10
Alfredsson, 71
Spezza, 57
FIsher, 53
Kovalev, 47

 

[Sol]

Palffy was my favorite player of all time. I hated when he was injured. Which was often. I wish he was less injury prone. So talented.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Palffy wins by a vote.