Proposal: Zibanejad to the Avs

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Jeeesus what happened to this thread?

Avs have been in rebuild mode for what, like 5 years now? Can't sit on your hands forever or you'll end up like Arizona or Edmonton. It would behoove your franchise to be proactive rather than reactive. I can't imagine a much better fit for you guys behind Mackinnon in Zibanejad, especially considering the contract, he fits your window perfectly.

There’s sitting on your hands and then there’a throwing away assets. Zbad would be a great add, but if the ask is Makar and the OTT 1st that’s massive overpayment.
 

cgf

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We replaced more than half the roster with rookies and traded Duchene just last season. That's really the start of the rebuild. Everything before that was prep work so we actually could rebuild.

Or was the top the line breaking out the end of the asset-acquisition stage of the rebuild and the start of shaping it into a contender?
 
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Calad

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There’s sitting on your hands and then there’a throwing away assets. Zbad would be a great add, but if the ask is Makar and the OTT 1st that’s massive overpayment.

I think ott 1st and Makar is not an offer made in good faith. The Ott 1st + a prospect like Timmins as a base seems more realistic. What other roster piece might the Avs be looking for to make this more enticing?
 

cgf

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And, how do we give them the necessary supporting staff if we're still trying to use this season to assess our supporting staff? These things were a lot simpler to figure out when we sucked and were just trying to find whatever talent we could...

And, yeah, that's what I meant with Makar. But the UMass regular season ends March 8. Unless he's signed and in Denver the next day, he'll only get maybe 6 regular season games this year, plus the playoffs. So, unless he comes in and immediately earns ice time over Barrie and EJ, I think 3rd pairing is where he'll be most of next year too, unless we move Barrie in the off-season when Newport demands $10m+.

By getting the bare minimum key pieces needed to compete and letting our kids keep growing around those key pieces!

If we end up with too good of depth then Joe gets to make another chopped-for-parts trade to load us up with even more futures with which to keep our window open, later.
 

cgf

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There’s sitting on your hands and then there’a throwing away assets. Zbad would be a great add, but if the ask is Makar and the OTT 1st that’s massive overpayment.

No doubt, but if it’s Timmins and the OTT pick after the lottery, when we know it won’t be top 5...then that would be a different calculation.
 

cgf

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I think ott 1st and Makar is not an offer made in good faith. The Ott 1st + a prospect like Timmins as a base seems more realistic. What other roster piece might the Avs be looking for to make this more enticing?

None really. A Zibby or an elite #1 blueliner are the only pieces that are missing. If the pick ends up in the 6-10 range I’d do it & Timmins for Zibby straight up...maybe wanting a 2nd or 3rd coming the other way if it’s at 5 or 6 rather than 8 or 9
 

Calad

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None really. A Zibby or an elite #1 blueliner are the only pieces that are missing. If the pick ends up in the 6-10 range I’d do it & Timmins for Zibby straight up...maybe wanting a 2nd or 3rd coming the other way if it’s at 5 or 6 rather than 8 or 9

So no interest in adding some depth at F like Vesey or Namestnikov (both signed though next year) or D like McQuaid(Ufa)? What of Zibanejad + Zuccarello for the previously requested package (Ottawa 1st + Timmins) + a 2nd in 19/20 that Colorado can choose at the draft? Your team could be a serious contender adding Zib and Zucc to your F core. Rangers will be happy to take back any salary through next season to make it work
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Or was the top the line breaking out the end of the asset-acquisition stage of the rebuild and the start of shaping it into a contender?

More like when you finish pimping out the master suite and kitchen during a renovation, but the rest of the house is still under construction. You're not quite done building, but you can live with it and are really happy with the results so far.
 
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cgf

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So no interest in adding some depth at F like Vesey or Namestnikov (both signed though next year) or D like McQuaid(Ufa)? What of Zibanejad + Zuccarello for the previously requested package (Ottawa 1st + Timmins) + a 2nd in 19/20 that Colorado can choose at the draft? Your team could be a serious contender adding Zib and Zucc to your F core. Rangers will be happy to take back any salary through next season to make it work

Problem is that we can't really trade that pick until after the lottery to make sure it doesn't end up top 4 or 5. So including any rentals in a Zibby trade wouldn't work timing-wise.

Plus we'd actually be pretty damn deep with a Zibby being added for futures. Zibby, Soderberg & Kamenev would be a strong center lineup behind the top line and we'd have a good set of wingers for them with Jost, Kaut, Compher, Kerfoot, Calvert, Nieto, Bourque & AJ Greer...assuming that we just brought all of those guys back without pursuing Panarin/Stone or even the Silfverberg tier of FA wingers; after letting Wilson & Andrighetto walk.

Jost has been really good on the wing. Compher is killing it this year & like Jost is a good two-way winger. Kerfoot is following a 43 point rookie season by pacing for 59. Kaut has been producing like Zadina & Necas in the AHL in his draft+1 year and has really been on a tear since getting acclimated; scoring a lot of clutch goals like Mikko did during his AHL tenure. All three of Calvert, Nieto & Bourque are good forecheckers / PKers to round out the bottom 6. Greer is looking like he's going to earn a chance to win the LW spot next to Kamenev sooner or later with the way he's playing in the AHL.

Plus we'd have Bowers (along with Meloche) in the AHL, being prepared to battle Kamenev to be Soda's eventual replacement, as the top call-up option(s):

Landy - MacK - Rantanen
Jost - Zibanejad - Kerfoot
Calvert - Soderberg - Kaut
Greer - Kamenev - Comph
( Nieto / Bourque )

Girard - Johnson
Zadorov - Barrie
Ian Cole - Makar
( Barberio )

( Varlamov?)
Grubauer
Francouz
 
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CobraAcesS

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Problem is that we can't really trade that pick until after the lottery to make sure it doesn't end up top 4 or 5. So including any rentals in a Zibby trade wouldn't work timing-wise.

Plus we'd actually be pretty damn deep with a Zibby being added for futures. Zibby, Soderberg & Kamenev would be a strong center lineup behind the top line and we'd have a good set of wingers for them with Jost, Kaut, Compher, Kerfoot, Calvert, Nieto, Bourque & AJ Greer...assuming that we just brought all of those guys back without pursuing Panarin/Stone or even the Silfverberg tier of FA wingers; after letting Wilson & Andrighetto walk.

Jost has been really good on the wing. Compher is killing it this year & like Jost is a good two-way winger. Kerfoot is following a 43 point rookie season by pacing for 59. Kaut has been producing like Zadina & Necas in the AHL in his draft+1 year and has really been on a tear since getting acclimated; scoring a lot of clutch goals like Mikko did during his AHL tenure. All three of Calvert, Nieto & Bourque are good forecheckers / PKers to round out the bottom 6. Greer is looking like he's going to earn a chance to win the LW spot next to Kamenev sooner or later with the way he's playing in the AHL.

Plus we'd have Bowers (along with Meloche) in the AHL, being prepared to battle Kamenev to be Soda's eventual replacement as the top call-up option(s):

Landy - MacK - Rantanen
Jost - Zibanejad - Kerfoot
Calvert - Soderberg - Kaut
Greer - Kamenev - Comph
( Nieto / Bourque )

Girard - Johnson
Zadorov - Barrie
Ian Cole - Makar
( Barberio )

( Varlamov?)
Grubauer
Francouz

I'll solve this for you.. Ottawa's pick top 5 protected + Timmins/Meloche/Bowers/Kamenev/Kerfoot whatever flavor you'd like.

Obviously becomes Colorado's if it's top five, and you can add another pick or something. There is a way to solve anything lol.
 

cgf

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I'll solve this for you.. Ottawa's pick top 5 protected + Timmins/Meloche/Bowers/Kamenev/Kerfoot whatever flavor you'd like.

Obviously becomes Colorado's if it's top five, and you can add another pick or something. There is a way to solve anything lol.

Even if the condition was something like: the Ottawa pick becomes our 1st in 2019 & 2020 + a B-prospect / 2nd rounder if the Ottawa pick ends up top 4 or 5 & we keep it; I'd imagine that would kill its value significantly...at least for a team like NYR who needs quality over quantity if they're selling Zibby or Kreider; given the picks they're going to pick up for Zucc & Hayes by this year's TDL and the pipeline they've already stocked up.

Was looking through their prospects/young talent the other day and even beyond Kravtsov & Miller last spring, they've nabbed a number of kids I was really high on. They need that talent to develop and to keep adding to it through this rebuild, but what they're really missing is a blueliner that has a good shot at being a #1 and another 1C prospect to cover for the possibility of Chytil ending up better on the wing...and those kind of prospects you find in the top 10, not with multiple later 1sts & a 2nd.
 
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cgf

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More like when you finish pimping out the master suite and kitchen during a renovation, but the rest of the house is still under construction. You're not quite done building, but you can live with it and are really happy with the results so far.

Not a homeowner so I can't really add to this analogy, but I think that line breaking out while Girard turned our blueline depth into a positive has us 1 piece away from contending. And I don't think you can still say you're rebuilding when you're just 1 piece away.
 

IWantSakicAsMyGM

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Not a homeowner so I can't really add to this analogy, but I think that line breaking out while Girard turned our blueline depth into a positive has us 1 piece away from contending. And I don't think you can still say you're rebuilding when you're just 1 piece away.

I agree that we're close, but just because we only really have finish work left doesn't mean it still isn't a part of the rebuild. To add to my analogy, we still need to install trim/molding in the rest of the house, caulk the guest bathroom, and touch up some of the paint around the house.
 

cgf

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I agree that we're close, but just because we only really have finish work left doesn't mean it still isn't a part of the rebuild. To add to my analogy, we still need to install trim/molding in the rest of the house, caulk the guest bathroom, and touch up some of the paint around the house.

Yeah I just don’t think that analogy works. We don’t need a bunch of small things to be finished up before we are ready to run, we need 1 big thing.

Like if you had all of those smaller things done or almost done...just waiting for the paint/caulk to dry...but were still missing the chandelier for the foyer or something, then that would make sense.

We can already move our furniture in and live in this house comfortably, hell we can even have company over for a nationally-televised matchup and impress them with what we do already have...but it isn’t done and ready for whatever the homeowner’s parallel to making serious cup runs would be, until that last big piece arrives & is installed.
 
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pld459666

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If the Rangers could get Makr and the Avs 1st in 19, that would be a deal I would consider.

I agree that wanting both the prospect and better pick is asking to much.
 

Eltuna

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If the Rangers could get Makr and the Avs 1st in 19, that would be a deal I would consider.

I agree that wanting both the prospect and better pick is asking to much.
Asking for either Makar or the Ottawa first is unreasonable. Skinner, Schenn, Duchene, Turris, ROR, Karlsson, and McDonagh were aquired in the last 1.5 years without giving up a teams 1st or even 2nd best young players/prospects. If Zibanejad was actually made available it wouldn’t take pieces like that, or at least the league has certainly been trending that way lately, teams have been holding onto blue chip young pieces no matter what. That’s of course assuming NY actually wants to trade him though, which there haven’t been any rumblings of. Avs just have to wait till a situation like one of the names mentioned above happens and make their move then. The last time I can think of a Makar like prospect being traded was for Mike Richards, who was much better than Zibanejad, I could be forgetting about a trade however (Forsberg would be close but he wasn’t as highly valued at the time).
 

cgf

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If the Rangers could get Makr and the Avs 1st in 19, that would be a deal I would consider.

I agree that wanting both the prospect and better pick is asking to much.

I have an easier time picturing Joe giving up that OTT pick than Makar.

...and I struggle to see Joe ever giving up that pick, even if personally, I think it could be worth it under the right circumstances.
 
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cgf

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Asking for either Makar or the Ottawa first is unreasonable. Skinner, Schenn, Duchene, Turris, ROR, Karlsson, and McDonagh were aquired in the last 1.5 years without giving up a teams 1st or even 2nd best young players/prospects. If Zibanejad was actually made available it wouldn’t take pieces like that, or at least the league has certainly been trending that way lately, teams have been holding onto blue chip young pieces no matter what. That’s of course assuming NY actually wants to trade him though, which there haven’t been any rumblings of. Avs just have to wait till a situation like one of the names mentioned above happens and make their move then. The last time I can think of a Makar like prospect being traded was for Mike Richards, who was much better than Zibanejad, I could be forgetting about a trade however (Forsberg would be close but he wasn’t as highly valued at the time).

Depends on where that pick lands. Stepan + Raanta got a pick in the 6-10 range, where that Ottawa pick could well end up sitting after lottery night.
 

Eltuna

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Depends on where that pick lands. Stepan + Raanta got a pick in the 6-10 range, where that Ottawa pick could well end up sitting after lottery night.
That was a pick already post lottery and in one of the weakest drafts (perceived at the time). Once that prospect has been drafted (Makar) or before the lottery (Ottawa 1st), the value shifts and teams don’t trade it.
 

cgf

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That was a pick already post lottery and in one of the weakest drafts (perceived at the time). Once that prospect has been drafted (Makar) or before the lottery (Ottawa 1st), the value shifts and teams don’t trade it.

Right, which is why those of us in favor of a trade like this, suggest it happen post-lottery, when we know where that pick will land. If it isn't top 4 or 5, then pairing it with Timmins / Bowers / Kerfoot for Zibby could make plenty of sense for us...if they won't take our 1st + two of those three pieces I mentioned instead.

Also, Gorton seems unlikely to want to throw his young Cs into the fire too much, by chopping both Hayes & Zibby in-season. So I suspect that a post-lottery timeline...so he can see how those kids respond to their increased responsibilities after Hayes is sold and give them more time to develop before losing Zibby as well...works better for them as well.
 

hooverdam

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If the Rangers could get Makr and the Avs 1st in 19, that would be a deal I would consider.

I agree that wanting both the prospect and better pick is asking to much.

Makar is just as realistically untouchable as Ottawa's first. There are very few deals in this league to be made that would make us a better team in the long term than Makar has the potential to.
 

Eltuna

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Right, which is why those of us in favor of a trade like this, suggest it happen post-lottery, when we know where that pick will land. If it isn't top 4 or 5, then pairing it with Timmins / Bowers / Kerfoot for Zibby could make plenty of sense for us...if they won't take our 1st + two of those three pieces I mentioned instead.

Also, Gorton seems unlikely to want to throw his young Cs into the fire too much, by chopping both Hayes & Zibby in-season. So I suspect that a post-lottery timeline...so he can see how those kids respond to their increased responsibilities after Hayes is sold and give them more time to develop before losing Zibby as well...works better for them as well.
That’s much more realistic, this draft is pretty great though I imagine Sakic just keeps it but you never know.
 

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