Confirmed Trade: Zibanejad for Brassard Part II.

[Sensinitis]

it's called selective attention guys, very hard to cure

 

[topshelf15]

+Healthy Turris
+Healthy MacArthur
+Full season of Phaneuf
- Cowen
- Weircoch
- Cameron

Lightyears more impactful than addig a overrated, overpaid FA.

Big time ,FLD fans are getting a little too far ahead of themselves here .Nothing about that team says surefire anything

 

[WesMcCauley]

+Healthy Turris
+Healthy MacArthur
+Full season of Phaneuf
- Cowen
- Weircoch
- Cameron

Lightyears more impactful than addig a overrated, overpaid FA.

Almost every team has injuries to important players every year. Its a horrible excuse.

 

[topshelf15]

Almost every team has injuries to important players every year. Its a horrible excuse.

Yep their first line center and their top line LW ,wonder how that works for those teams ??My guess would be not very well

 

[armani]

Florida loaded up after taking the division.
Tampa has kept Stammer and everyone else to make another run at the division. While retooling with youth, Boston just added Backes who might have been the best UFA to hit the market this year.
Price will surely play and single-handedly win more games this year, regardless of anything else Montreal has done.
Buffalo and TML are infusing with high end youth, ranked 3rd and 4th in prospects by HockeysFuture. Plus neither team cares about how much they're spending on anything else to be better.
Ottawa traded Brassard for Zibanejad to get slightly better.

Sorry but with HFs ranked 21st best prospect pool, no major imports via UFA, and missing the playoffs 2 of the past 3 years. It's going to take more than adding their 3rd coach in 4 years to make this team a playoff contender and likely won't happen quickly at all.

Well aware of the rest of the conference. Each team in the Atlantic added good pieces.

That said, Ottawa's re-tooling started with the Phaneuf trade in February. They were also missing MacArthur (top-6, 50+ pts, 20+ goals) and Turris during key times.

The most significant change came in the off-season with the Boucher and Crawford hiring, the hope around town is that Ottawa will finally have some sort of a system in place (and not the bang your head against the wall until it or your head cracks..rinse n repeat...that they were subjected to under Maclean and Cameron).

The core players that include Karlsson, Turris, Stone, et. al are a year older and still haven't reached their peak.

Bottomline, the team finally has a decent top-9 to go along with a strong top-4. Goal scoring is not the problem, so the addition of players like Brassard, Kelly, and Pyatt (to a smaller extent) is indicative of how the team wants to approach it's game plan. Offense was never the problem. Ottawa fans expect them to be better defensively this season with all these changes.

Top 9 (as good as any top-9 in the Atlantic, only TB is arguably better)

MacArthur-Turris-Stone
Hoffman-Brassard-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar (Pageau is an elite 3C and Smith scored 25 goals as his winger)

Top 4 (as good as any in the Atlantic)

Methot-EK65
Phaneuf-Ceci

The goalies are fine with Anderson and Hammond as back stoppers.

This team has, on paper, the potential to be the number two seed in the Atlantic, which will give them a spot in the post season.

At least that's the hope as a Sens fan.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Yep their first line center and their top line LW ,wonder how that works for those teams ??My guess would be not very well

To be fair, Turris still played 57 games. MacArthur is your 4th best winger (behind Stone, Hoffman and Ryan) so you're exaggerating a bit.

 

[topshelf15]

To be fair, Turris still played 57 games. MacArthur is your 4th best winger (behind Stone, Hoffman and Ryan) so you're exaggerating a bit.

And you dont have a clue ,Turris was playing injured for 21 of those 57 and produced like it .Mac played 4 freaken games and is and still will be Turris,s LW ,last time he was healthy he produced 58 points along side of him .So two potential 60 point players out a lineup ,is exaggerating please man

 

[Asquaredx2]

To be fair, Turris still played 57 games. MacArthur is your 4th best winger (behind Stone, Hoffman and Ryan) so you're exaggerating a bit.

A lot of those games were on one leg. Nobody who saw the NYI incident thought Turris was going to see the ice again that session.

Anyway, injuries are definitely a real concern but I don't see why this trade in particular is making us evaluate the Sens' chances. Zibanejad is a good young player but he was at the very most our fourth best piece, and very possibly 6th - 9th depending on how you feel about some other players and prospects. It's not like we just packaged Ceci, Stone and Brown for Thornton and Marleau.

 

[HarrisonFord]

And you dont have a clue ,Turris was playing injured for 21 of those 57 and produced like it .Mac played 4 freaken games and is and still will be Turris,s LW ,last time he was healthy he produced 58 points along side of him .So two potential 60 point players out a lineup ,is exaggerating please man

I'm aware of the knee injury, yes. I'm aware that it hindered his play as well, but he still was on the ice. He and the coaching staff clearly believed he was able to play through it. MacArthur has never once in his career produced exactly 58 points lol, you might want to double check on that. He scored 55 points, yes 3 seasons ago. I would be willing to bet you all the money in my bank account though that he's not going to hit 60 points for you next season.

A lot of those games were on one leg. Nobody who saw the NYI incident thought Turris was going to see the ice again that session.

Anyway, injuries are definitely a real concern but I don't see why this trade in particular is making us evaluate the Sens' chances. Zibanejad is a good young player but he was at the very most our fourth best piece, and very possibly 6th - 9th depending on how you feel about some other players and prospects. It's not like we just packaged Ceci, Stone and Brown for Thornton and Marleau.

Yeah I agree with you here. I think Brassard this season will be a slight upgrade over Zib. The only issue I think people have is that the 2nd seems like it's way too much value, and unnecessary in this deal.

 

[Sensinitis]

MacArthur has never once in his career produced exactly 58 points lol, you might want to double check on that.

He had 62 points in 2010-11. Just wanna correct the misinformation this guy constantly spreads.

The only issue I think people have is that the 2nd seems like it's way too much value, and unnecessary in this deal.

Those people don't realize the Sens have Chabot, Brown and White as top prospects, and by the time that 2018 2nd rounder is to be chosen, the Sens will have added two 1st rounders as well. Pretty useless pick for a team that's trying to be competitive.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Yep their first line center and their top line LW ,wonder how that works for those teams ??My guess would be not very well

Its not uncommon at all to have some of their best players injured for some part of the season. Its actually pretty common. Malkin played 58, Letang 71 etc. Nash 60, Stepan 72, Klein 69, Mcdonagh 73.

Pittsburgh had 313 man games lost to injury. Ottawa 307. Its a bad excuse, injuries happen every year and usually to atleast one of your best players.
NYR went on a crazy run with their backup goalie playing almost 30 games in a row in the 2014/2015 season because they adjusted and played smarter to help their backup and didnt let him be the man like Hank has to be. Lundquist and Price are NYR and Habs defensive system. Habs went down when Price got injured because they didnt adjust. When the goalie is a huge part of your system you gotta change things when he goes down. NYR managed to do it, Habs didnt.
When top players get injured, the depth of the team and the coaches ability to adjust really shows. Depth and coaching is one of the most important things if you wanna make the playoffs every year.

 

[HarrisonFord]

He had 62 points in 2010-11. Just wanna correct the misinformation this guy constantly spreads.



Those people don't realize the Sens have Chabot, Brown and White as top prospects, and by the time that 2018 2nd rounder is to be chosen, the Sens will have added two 1st rounders as well. Pretty useless pick for a team that's trying to be competitive.

How am I spreading misinformation? was I wrong about him scoring exactly 58 points ever? Has he done that? No. The poster I quoted said he scored 58 points alongside Turris. That never happened. Ever. Or am I wrong?


Lol, TIL 2nd round picks are irrelevant

 

[SpezDispenser]

Yeah I agree with you here. I think Brassard this season will be a slight upgrade over Zib. The only issue I think people have is that the 2nd seems like it's way too much value, and unnecessary in this deal.

The more I think about it, the less I think the 2nd was too much. I felt that way at first, but the Rangers scouts aren't dumb (I assume), they scouted him and they saw what we all saw - a guy with potential, but a guy who scored his points in bunches and was totally useless in the other 70% of the games. So, the Sens want a guy who's already gone through that and come out the other side as a solid player, while the Rangers take a guy who might come out the other side as a legitimate everyday threat in the NHL, plus they pay the 2 million bonus, plus they have to negotiate a new deal next summer.

 

[Liver King]

Hoffman-Brassard-Stone
Macarthur-Turris-Ryan
Smith-Pageau-Lazar

sexaay

 

[SpezDispenser]

Its not uncommon at all to have some of their best players injured for some part of the season. Its actually pretty common. Malkin played 58, Letang 71 etc. Nash 60, Stepan 72, Klein 69, Mcdonagh 73.

Pittsburgh had 313 man games lost to injury. Ottawa 307. Its a bad excuse, injuries happen every year and usually to atleast one of your best players.
NYR went on a crazy run with their backup goalie playing almost 30 games in a row in the 2014/2015 season because they adjusted and played smarter to help their backup and didnt let him be the man like Hank has to be. Lundquist and Price are NYR and Habs defensive system. Habs went down when Price got injured because they didnt adjust. When the goalie is a huge part of your system you gotta change things when he goes down. NYR managed to do it, Habs didnt.
When top players get injured, the depth of the team and the coaches ability to adjust really shows. Depth and coaching is one of the most important things if you wanna make the playoffs every year.

We lost our top line center and try as we might, we couldn't get our hands on Crosby to help out. We lost our top line LW 4 games into the season. We played with Jared Cowen in our top 4 - let that sink in for a moment - until Toronto did us a huge solid and took him away from us.

We've played through our top goaltender being hurt - and went on a historic run. We could play through a top six injury or two, but losing our top line C led to...guess what? Zibanejad being called upon to take over. And guess what happened? He got usurped of the job by a little dude named JG Pageau.

It's not excuses, it's what happened. When Mac went down, we dealt with it and stayed in the race, when Turris went down and Zbad didn't step up (until later on), we fell out of the playoff race once and for all.

 

[Liver King]

How am I spreading misinformation? was I wrong about him scoring exactly 58 points ever? Has he done that? No. The poster I quoted said he scored 58 points alongside Turris. That never happened. Ever. Or am I wrong?


Lol, TIL 2nd round picks are irrelevant

I think you nitpicking a 3 point mistake by the previous poster is pretty laughable. His point still stands if its properly switched to 55 points just to make your ass happy

 

[trentmccleary]

Its not uncommon at all to have some of their best players injured for some part of the season. Its actually pretty common. Malkin played 58, Letang 71 etc. Nash 60, Stepan 72, Klein 69, Mcdonagh 73.

Pittsburgh had 313 man games lost to injury. Ottawa 307. Its a bad excuse, injuries happen every year and usually to atleast one of your best players.

This is a crock. Injuries aren't evenly distributed across the league or even across the team.
In 2015, Ottawa's role players got most of the injuries. They were a bubble team that made the playoffs. In 2016, Ottawa's top players (T6F/T4D) got most of the injuries so they were a bubble team that finished out. You expect players to miss about 7 games on average, so those top-10 players would miss 70 games total. Ottawa's missed 144 games. Florida's and Tampa's T6F / T4D missed 132 games combined. That's not the same, not even close.

 

[HarrisonFord]

The more I think about it, the less I think the 2nd was too much. I felt that way at first, but the Rangers scouts aren't dumb (I assume), they scouted him and they saw what we all saw - a guy with potential, but a guy who scored his points in bunches and was totally useless in the other 70% of the games. So, the Sens want a guy who's already gone through that and come out the other side as a solid player, while the Rangers take a guy who might come out the other side as a legitimate everyday threat in the NHL, plus they pay the 2 million bonus, plus they have to negotiate a new deal next summer.

I get all the logic behind why Ottawa swapped out Zib for Brassard (the money and play aspect of it), I just never thought that the difference between Zib and Brassard was a 2nd round pick. Maybe I'm overvaluing what a 2nd round pick is worth because I'm a fan of a rebuilding team though, that's possible

 

[HarrisonFord]

I think you nitpicking a 3 point mistake by the previous poster is pretty laughable. His point still stands if its properly switched to 55 points just to make your ass happy

No, I nitpick because of the oddly stated point total which never happened lol

 

[GWNR]

I get all the logic behind why Ottawa swapped out Zib for Brassard (the money and play aspect of it), I just never thought that the difference between Zib and Brassard was a 2nd round pick. Maybe I'm overvaluing what a 2nd round pick is worth because I'm a fan of a rebuilding team though, that's possible

As is every person on RSR.

draft picks have always been highly overrated on this website. It's a generalization, but it's pretty true.

 

[WesMcCauley]

We lost our top line center and try as we might, we couldn't get our hands on Crosby to help out. We lost our top line LW 4 games into the season. We played with Jared Cowen in our top 4 - let that sink in for a moment - until Toronto did us a huge solid and took him away from us.

We've played through our top goaltender being hurt - and went on a historic run. We could play through a top six injury or two, but losing our top line C led to...guess what? Zibanejad being called upon to take over. And guess what happened? He got usurped of the job by a little dude named JG Pageau.

It's not excuses, it's what happened. When Mac went down, we dealt with it and stayed in the race, when Turris went down and Zbad didn't step up (until later on), we fell out of the playoff race once and for all.

NYR played with Girardi and Staal playing tons of minutes all year, let that sink in for a moment. Girardi might be the worst defensemen in the NHL! And he has a cap hit of 5,5 mill a year... We had Brass-Hayes down the middle with Stepan out and we sucked. Brass was useless defensivly without Nash and our team was a mess during that time. Nash played thru injuries and scored 36 in 60, Turris 30 in 57. . Pretty identical situation except Nash scored 42 goals the season before. Turris has never scored more than 26. What im trying to say is that everyone has injuries and its a dumb excuse. As much as Ott lost an important player, so did NYR and so did alot of other teams. Our captain played 73 games. Our second best D in Klein played 69, Nash 60, Stepan 72 etc. It happens every season to tons of teams.
When Ott made the playoff the year before Hammond came out of nothing and played like the best goalie in the league. Thats alot more luck than you beeing "unlucky" with a couple injuries.... I like Ott and watch them alot because im a huge Karlsson fan but using injuries as an excuse is just dumb. I would love to see Karlsson and Brass go deep in the playoffs but stop with the injury excuses. Its just dumb because Ottawa`s situation this season wasnt anything worse than anyone elses.

 

[WesMcCauley]

The more I think about it, the less I think the 2nd was too much. I felt that way at first, but the Rangers scouts aren't dumb (I assume), they scouted him and they saw what we all saw - a guy with potential, but a guy who scored his points in bunches and was totally useless in the other 70% of the games. So, the Sens want a guy who's already gone through that and come out the other side as a solid player, while the Rangers take a guy who might come out the other side as a legitimate everyday threat in the NHL, plus they pay the 2 million bonus, plus they have to negotiate a new deal next summer.

2 million bonus in real money not counting towards our cap means nothing to NYR. Its not a negative for NYR, but i understand not paying the money is a positive for OTT because they have an internal cap. NYR basically paid Ott 2 million for a 2nd rounder. Positive for both sides.
NYR needed to get younger and getting a 50 point center at 23 who hasnt broken out yet+2nd rounder for a 50-60 point center with maybe 2 years left of his prime, ill take our chances.
Negotiate a new deal with an rfa its not really that difficult. If he improves, he will get 5+. If he doesnt he will get 4+. We have cap space to make it work.

 

[SpezDispenser]

2 million bonus in real money not counting towards our cap means nothing to NYR. Its not a negative for NYR, but i understand not paying the money is a positive for OTT because they have an internal cap. NYR basically paid Ott 2 million for a 2nd rounder. Positive for both sides.
NYR needed to get younger and getting a 50 point center at 23 who hasnt broken out yet+2nd rounder for a 50-60 point center with maybe 2 years left of his prime, ill take our chances.
Negotiate a new deal with an rfa its not really that difficult. If he improves, he will get 5+. If he doesnt he will get 4+. We have cap space to make it work.

Yeah, but from a business standpoint, the Rangers have a pretty fair case for compensation, whether or not they care about the money is irrelevant. And they gave up the better player, whether or not he's older is again, irrelevant, they'd want compensation.

 

[WesMcCauley]

This is a crock. Injuries aren't evenly distributed across the league or even across the team.
In 2015, Ottawa's role players got most of the injuries. They were a bubble team that made the playoffs. In 2016, Ottawa's top players (T6F/T4D) got most of the injuries so they were a bubble team that finished out. You expect players to miss about 7 games on average, so those top-10 players would miss 70 games total. Ottawa's missed 144 games. Florida's and Tampa's T6F / T4D missed 132 games combined. That's not the same, not even close.

Nash, Stepan, Mcdonagh, Klein etc got injured for NYR
Malkin, letang, bonino etc for Pens
Subban, Price, Gallagher etc for Habs

You are bringing up two teams with very few injuries when tons of other teams had injuries to important players. And if you had a little more injuries than other teams on average? So what? Thats part of it and its not like it only happens to you. Malkin missing 30 games is a bigger loss than a reg top 6 missing 60 games because of how good Malkin is. You can twist it in all kinds of directions. You arent the only ones with injuries, its dumb to complain about it.

 

[MarkStone]

I'm aware of the knee injury, yes. I'm aware that it hindered his play as well, but he still was on the ice. He and the coaching staff clearly believed he was able to play through it.

Hockey culture stupidly tends to treat injuries that way. Doesn't make it valid to look at his decline in point production with no context involved.