Zetterberg's career is over... So Sad

Invictus12

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And that’s because the team had a bull**** defense, their goalies were inconsistent as hell, and you had a couple young players who have been notably lax in their preparation for the level of skill they have (Wings wouldn’t have gotten Mantha at 20 or AA in the fourth if they didn’t have huge question marks in their personalities.)

You can’t rally the troops enough to make up for a sheer lack of talent. The fact that this team was competitive in as many games as they’ve been in the last couple years is astounding. They’ve had three or four players on the ice in the last couple years that weren’t being asked to play at least a line or pairing higher than they optimally should.

“Rallying the troops” like you are saying works in a short series. It works in a short burst of games. Over a whole season? It’s incumbent on the whole roster to keep it together. If a guy tries being a rah rah, look at me guy the whole season, he’ll start to get tuned out no matter who he is if the team keeps losing.

E: and I watched that video... Jesus Christ, they just played a game where they got their **** pushed in and all the players knew it. A rah rah speech wouldn’t do crap in that locker room on that night. That is not good evidence to reflect anything on his leadership. Like he said. That game was them losing and losing because they tossed it away. A “rally the troops” type speech is needed when you have a game where your team played their asses off and the breaks beat the boys. Not where the boys got their asses soundly thrashed

I get what you saying and do myself feel that the speech he gave was just redundant. I'd think he'd been better off telling everyone to stop blaming everyone and focus on what everyone does individually themselves to get this team going. It's also a long season and I think at this point they just couldn't find solutions and frustration just kept bubblimg. Reality is simple, older players aren't what they used to be, younger players haven't tapped their full potential yet (hopefully they will) and the rest are who they are.... So yeah, everyone get your own shit together would be the proper message I'd think and Z certainly displayed that in full on the ice but I do feel too many of the youngsters just don't really get it yet.
 

WingedWheel1987

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Jan 11, 2011
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The man was an absolute beast during his prime and was still the most reliable forward the Wings had for the last few years of his career. He was the last connection to the 08 cup run that truly mattered and he will be missed.
 
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Cyborg Yzerberg

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The year where we made the playoffs for a 25th straight year was rallying the troops. God damn, Hank willed that team into the post season, cause God knows that was a pretty terrible team.
 
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jkutswings

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Z will have his number retired. Datsyuk won’t. For good reason.
That's a terrible take. Daysyuk is completely deserving of his jersey in the rafters. The fact that Fedorov didn't have 91 retired years ago is embarrassing, and the fans that get their knickers in a twist over Pavel preferring the KHL over the last two years of dumpster fire hockey here are just as silly.

Honestly, I'd love to see 13 and 40 go up together, since their careers were so intertwined, but sooner or later they're both going up there.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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The man was an absolute beast during his prime and was still the most reliable forward the Wings had for the last few years of his career. He was the last connection to the 08 cup run that truly mattered and he will be missed.

Kronwall mattered a great deal to that run. I also think 08' was really Kronwall's pinnacle as a player. He and Stuart dominated people physically throughout that run in my opinion.
 
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The Zetterberg Era

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That's a terrible take. Daysyuk is completely deserving of his jersey in the rafters. The fact that Fedorov didn't have 91 retired years ago is embarrassing, and the fans that get their knickers in a twist over Pavel preferring the KHL over the last two years of dumpster fire hockey here are just as silly.

Honestly, I'd love to see 13 and 40 go up together, since their careers were so intertwined, but sooner or later they're both going up there.

Again, that isn't how the Ilitch family feels and that is really all that matters until they sell the team. Either way Fedorov isn't going up while Marian is alive is something I have heard a few times, we will see how things mend with Datsyuk over time. But somebody preferring playing for another league and breaking their contract can be something that means that honor doesn't belong to them anymore. Rumor has it via Custance an Gave both guys are a no go currently.
 
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Pavels Dog

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Honestly I just don't think he was as strong of a captain as some people think he was. Did Z play hard, yep... but it felt like at times he couldn't rally the troops.



Maybe it was the way this speech was edited, but it didn't seem inspirational at all. If anything it seems like it fell on deaf ears and no one really cared to listen.

Another example would be this past year and the ridiculous amount of time Nyquist spent on the hip of Z all year long. I get it, Z likes to play with Nyquist but at times this year it was clear they were just not getting it done. Those rumors of the Swedish Mafia didn't help either. I understand there are always cliques but it seemed like not everyone was on the same page.

I'm sure I'm doing a bad job at trying to describe the feeling I get coming off interviews and rumors, but it really doesn't seem like the locker room is as close as it should be.

Real life isn't like Hollywood movies where scripted inspirational speeches set to a Hans Zimmer soundtrack rallies the troops to victory. You can't inspirational-speech your way to 60 wins instead of 30. Rhetoric doesn't turn Danny Dekeyser into Nick Lidstrom. And if you think the quality of speeches is what makes or breaks a guy as captain then I can only conclude you have literally no understanding of team sports whatsoever.
 
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Obe2kenobe

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Real life isn't like Hollywood movies where scripted inspirational speeches set to a Hans Zimmer soundtrack rallies the troops to victory. You can't inspirational-speech your way to 60 wins instead of 30. Rhetoric doesn't turn Danny Dekeyser into Nick Lidstrom. And if you think the quality of speeches is what makes or breaks a guy as captain then I can only conclude you have literally no understanding of team sports whatsoever.

Agree with you. Yzerman who most people think was a a great leader, didn't do the ra-ra stuff and rarely yelled. He mostly just lead by example and handle things with class. Much like Z.
 

Red Stanley

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:( Really sad he won't get a shot at 1000 points. That would've been the cherry on an awesomecake career. On the other hand, I'm glad he's doing it like this instead of watching him get hauled off on a stretcher. Much respect.
 

jkutswings

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Again, that isn't how the Ilitch family feels and that is really all that matters until they sell the team. Either way Fedorov isn't going up while Marian is alive is something I have heard a few times, we will see how things mend with Datsyuk over time. But somebody preferring playing for another league and breaking their contract can be something that means that honor doesn't belong to them anymore. Rumor has it via Custance an Gave both guys are a no go currently.
Then I hope someone talks some sense into them, to swallow that pride and do the right thing. I want entertainment based on honest evaluation and appreciation of talent, not petty grudges toward those who didn't scratch my back one last time.

If these were bubble players making a roster, sure, factor in whatever tiebreakers you like. But Fedorov and Datsyuk are two first ballot HOF players that made huge impacts on the franchise for years on end, and they both belong in the rafters.

Honestly, between Aurie, Sergei, and now Pavel...ownership is one long Keystone Light commercial (bitter beer face):

bitter-beer-face-gif-video-meme-keystone-light-beer-lager-commercial.jpg
 

Fynn

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Then I hope someone talks some sense into them, to swallow that pride and do the right thing. I want entertainment based on honest evaluation and appreciation of talent, not petty grudges toward those who didn't scratch my back one last time.

If these were bubble players making a roster, sure, factor in whatever tiebreakers you like. But Fedorov and Datsyuk are two first ballot HOF players that made huge impacts on the franchise for years on end, and they both belong in the rafters.

Honestly, between Aurie, Sergei, and now Pavel...ownership is one long Keystone Light commercial (bitter beer face):

bitter-beer-face-gif-video-meme-keystone-light-beer-lager-commercial.jpg
I honestly don't think the Ilitch family gives a flying F what any of us thinks. It's their team, their rules. They don't just care about stats, but loyalty. They both spit on the Ilitch family, the Red Wings and their fans I don't blame them in the least and I could care less if 13 or 91 ever go up to the rafters.
 

SoupGuru

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I've had suspicions about Z's leadership as well. I don't think he was selling Blash's system very well. I didn't get a sense that players were being held accountable for phoning it in. I dunno. I'm not saying he was the worst captain ever, but I don't think he was that great either.
 

jkutswings

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I honestly don't think the Ilitch family gives a flying F what any of us thinks. It's their team, their rules. They don't just care about stats, but loyalty. They both spit on the Ilitch family, the Red Wings and their fans I don't blame them in the least and I could care less if 13 or 91 ever go up to the rafters.
Do tell...how exactly did Fedorov "spit on the Ilitch family, the Red Wings and their fans"? He didn't break a contract, or negotiate in bad faith, or try anything shady, let alone illegal. I was upset when he left, sure, but him leaving doesn't change the fact that he was arguably the most talented player to ever wear the winged wheel, and was instrumental in that era of franchise success.

You're free to still hold a grudge about a player exercising his legal rights - even after this many years - but I'd rather let it go, and recognize what a truly special player Sergei was.
 

One Blurred Eye

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Sep 27, 2014
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If Zetterberg is even half the man and teammate a lot of us think he is, why would he accept his number going up before Pavel's, especially if the question is if, not when? If loyalty is so important, what about loyalty to the guy who was out there with him on the ice playing through foot, knee and wrist injuries trying to win playoff games so the billionaires in the executive box could pop their thousand dollar bottles of wine for doing little more than signing some paychecks? Mike Ilitch's pursuit of championships was exciting for us fans but it meant kicking plenty of loyal Red Wings to the curb along the way when there was a chance to make the team better. Strangely fluid the standards being applied in this discussion. Obviously the Ilitches can do whatever the f*** they want but not sure how anyone claiming to value character and loyalty above all can sympathize with and defend it.
 

Fynn

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Apr 23, 2017
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Do tell...how exactly did Fedorov "spit on the Ilitch family, the Red Wings and their fans"? He didn't break a contract, or negotiate in bad faith, or try anything shady, let alone illegal. I was upset when he left, sure, but him leaving doesn't change the fact that he was arguably the most talented player to ever wear the winged wheel, and was instrumental in that era of franchise success.

You're free to still hold a grudge about a player exercising his legal rights - even after this many years - but I'd rather let it go, and recognize what a truly special player Sergei was.
It has nothing to do with legalities or rights. When Sergei signed with Carolina, it was a huge financial hit to the Ilitch family. They had to write him a check for 28 million immediately. Not to mention he signed with Ilitch's nemesis, Pete Karamanos. He had a bigger, more lucrative offer from Ilitch who personally made him a contract offer before he left the second time, and Sergei said he had to think it over and then split. As I stated in my first post, it's about how Mike and Marian and their family feels about them, end of story. A number retirement is based on what the organization thinks, not the fans. It isn't some legal right or obligation. The standard in Detroit isn't like everywhere else. Nick and Stevie had set a pretty high bar that Hank has seemed to have followed, their Russian counterparts, not so much.
 

jkutswings

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For anybody in SE Michigan (or with streaming access) Zetterberg will be on 97.1FM at 8:30 this morning. I won't be able to hear the interview, but if anybody does, please post the summary here.
 

jkutswings

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It has nothing to do with legalities or rights. When Sergei signed with Carolina, it was a huge financial hit to the Ilitch family.
And when the Wings needed to get under the new salary cap, and cut McCarty - who had been an extremely loyal player and fan favorite - it was a huge financial hit to Darren. It's business.

Was it messy and awkward at the time? Yep, and I don't blame people for being mad...back then. But that was over a decade ago. If 10+ years isn't long enough for cooler heads to prevail, that's pretty sad.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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If Zetterberg is even half the man and teammate a lot of us think he is, why would he accept his number going up before Pavel's, especially if the question is if, not when? If loyalty is so important, what about loyalty to the guy who was out there with him on the ice playing through foot, knee and wrist injuries trying to win playoff games so the billionaires in the executive box could pop their thousand dollar bottles of wine for doing little more than signing some paychecks? Mike Ilitch's pursuit of championships was exciting for us fans but it meant kicking plenty of loyal Red Wings to the curb along the way when there was a chance to make the team better. Strangely fluid the standards being applied in this discussion. Obviously the Ilitches can do whatever the **** they want but not sure how anyone claiming to value character and loyalty above all can sympathize with and defend it.

Zetterberg is more deserving of the honor in my opinion so not sure why he should tie himself to Datsyuk here. I mean he can and I am not sure that isn't how Pavel gets his number up in terms of Zetterberg going to bat. He is staying in the area so he can influence it. But I have no problem with Zetterberg going up first.

The real one here is neither guy should go up before Fedorov and they should cut the Aurie crap out immediately.

But it is what it is. I said when he was leaving I thought Datsyuk put his chances in the sewer with how he handled it. So it isn't exactly surprising. The off-season before he quit Mike and Marian reportedly spent the entirety of Datsyuk's surgery on the phone to get updates. I wouldn't say they don't care, but maybe because of how much they care they have opened themselves up to being a little more hurt than they should be by certain things.
 

turkleton85

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Dec 12, 2017
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Zetterberg is my favorite player, but for his health, this is the best decision. look at franzen, it makes you sick to hear about his condition. Enjoy family, hank, you were and still are an inspiration for all hockey players. He might be one of the most underrated stars of the 2000's, just because he played with lidstrom, dats etc
 

Fynn

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Apr 23, 2017
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And when the Wings needed to get under the new salary cap, and cut McCarty - who had been an extremely loyal player and fan favorite - it was a huge financial hit to Darren. It's business.

Was it messy and awkward at the time? Yep, and I don't blame people for being mad...back then. But that was over a decade ago. If 10+ years isn't long enough for cooler heads to prevail, that's pretty sad.
Exactly, it's business. Sergei signing with Carolina and leaving for the Ducks cost the Ilitich family business wise. I personally couldn't care less, and I don't see why fans give a crap about something like a number retirement as though it's some sort of litmus test. There's also a difference between "people" being mad and the owners of the team who went above and beyond with Sergei and his family and the ones who actually had to pay the price financially with their business.
 

ArGarBarGar

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For anybody in SE Michigan (or with streaming access) Zetterberg will be on 97.1FM at 8:30 this morning. I won't be able to hear the interview, but if anybody does, please post the summary here.
Was only able to catch the first half of it, but it seemed like what you would expect.

1. Says the reason for stopping now was over the offseason after talking to the doctors.
2. Will stay in Michigan for the year, likely will move back to Sweden to spend time with family at some point.
3. Considered himself a "jack of all trades" type during his career. Not the best at any particular thing but just did a lot of things well enough to compete
4. Talked about 08 and 09. Says 09 didn't hurt as much because they won the season before.
5. Mentioned Zadina reminds him of himself personality wise. Not sure he meant more than him being a fresh faced kid trying to figure things out.
 

Larkin2AA

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Apr 21, 2016
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Was only able to catch the first half of it, but it seemed like what you would expect.

1. Says the reason for stopping now was over the offseason after talking to the doctors.
2. Will stay in Michigan for the year, likely will move back to Sweden to spend time with family at some point.
3. Considered himself a "jack of all trades" type during his career. Not the best at any particular thing but just did a lot of things well enough to compete
4. Talked about 08 and 09. Says 09 didn't hurt as much because they won the season before.
5. Mentioned Zadina reminds him of himself personality wise. Not sure he meant more than him being a fresh faced kid trying to figure things out.

From his interview in TC somebody asked if he was staying in Michigan or moving back home, he responded that he was staying because that is where him and his wife spend most of their time. His kid also just started school as well. I hope he stays.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

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Agree with you. Yzerman who most people think was a a great leader, didn't do the ra-ra stuff and rarely yelled. He mostly just lead by example and handle things with class. Much like Z.
Yup. And people still questioned Yzerman's leadership pre-Stanley Cups.

Zetterberg unfortunately for him was captain during the worst Wings roster in almost 30 years.

And people bringing up even a hint of the existence of Swedish mafia is crazy. If Zetterberg was calling the shots like that, the Red Wings needed to get rid of Holland, Blashill, and Z because that's the level of dysfunction that leads you to what happened with Messier in Vancouver. As critical as I've been of Holland at times, it's hard for me to believe the Wings organization would let something like that happen.
 

odin1981

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Stupid question but when a player is on LTIR, do they still get paid?

I assumed they did but it goes against the narrative that Z is retiring because his salary dropped down. Hossa as well. I guess it's something I never really pondered.

EDIT: Just saw tsweeny's post which states that they do get paid.

They get "paid" by some insurance agency. The team doesn't pay.
 

One Blurred Eye

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Sep 27, 2014
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Zetterberg is more deserving of the honor in my opinion so not sure why he should tie himself to Datsyuk here. I mean he can and I am not sure that isn't how Pavel gets his number up in terms of Zetterberg going to bat. He is staying in the area so he can influence it. But I have no problem with Zetterberg going up first.

The real one here is neither guy should go up before Fedorov and they should cut the Aurie crap out immediately.

But it is what it is. I said when he was leaving I thought Datsyuk put his chances in the sewer with how he handled it. So it isn't exactly surprising. The off-season before he quit Mike and Marian reportedly spent the entirety of Datsyuk's surgery on the phone to get updates. I wouldn't say they don't care, but maybe because of how much they care they have opened themselves up to being a little more hurt than they should be by certain things.

I can tell you Zetterberg doesn't think himself more deserving, and that's more closely related to the vein of the thread here, no? Whether either or neither of them go up before 91 or any other historical Wing is quite beside the point. I mean, do you think Zetterberg's career looks nearly as impressive if we swap out Datsyuk for Scott Gomez when Datsyuk was being singled out for Detroit's post-season disappointments, when Z put up 11 points and -6 in 22 playoff games in that same period? You're not sure why Zetterberg wouldn't want to give due credit to a player every bit as important to the team's success during their tenure as himself? What arbitrary cutoff is Hank going to whisper to himself in the mirror the morning before the ceremony to convince himself he deserves it more than his teammate and friend, besides his risking his own health to carry a sinking ship a couple seasons more? One of them played 1219 regular and post season games with the team, the other 1110. One collected 1080 points in those games, the other 1031. Neither of them won anything significant without the other, aside from Datsyuk's relatively impressive but mere-supporting role in 2002. They both sacrificed their bodies and gave as much as their bodies would let them every shift of every game. Basically one decent NHL player season's difference in terms of service to their team between them. That's some fine hair-splitting, laser precise. So if he accepts when there's any lingering doubt that Pavel's will ever go up, then in my opinion he really doesn't deserve the honor, if we're factoring stuff beyond on-ice performance into equation.

As for the Ilitches' concern, I'm sure it must seem quite sincere to forum posters who (I'll assume with confidence) don't personally know any of the people involved. But perhaps from Pavel's perspective, the concern was more for a business investment than a friend. Maybe he wisely kept from entangling his personal attachments with business arrangements. Maybe his youth of poverty colored his perception of the dynamics of the relationship, making it easier for him to pull the plug on his employment. It's just really interesting how people seem so concerned with the feelings of the billionaires here, who weren't above dangling the possibility of franchise relocation and a bunch of blue-collar jobs over Detroit/Michigan in order to negotiate for and secure millions of state funds for their fancy new arena which they could have easily financed themselves, etc., etc.. Yeah, the Ilitches are (were at least?) better sports owners than most, but I think a recalibration is needed to remove some of the romance afforded them when they are far from innocent of treating relationships very callously when it suits their needs.
 
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