Zetterberg's career is over... So Sad

TheRatPoisoner

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Feb 23, 2015
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Ouch. Didn't exactly come outta nowhere, but still...

Guy had a great career

Also, this team is really, really bad now (and they were bad before this). I don't think anyone fills the hole Z leaves.
 

TheRatPoisoner

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Feb 23, 2015
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Datsyuk will absolutely have his number retired, and you're crazy if you believe otherwise. It may not be right away, but it'll absolutely happen.

The sentiment is correct though -- Datsyuk is the better player, Z is the better Red Wing.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd say Z
 
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Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
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Ok thanks. That's what I thought but so many people in the main forum are referring to his salary dropping.

That thing people keep saying about the salary dropping is in relation to ones like the Hossa situation where he actually had his problem for a couple years and played through it with no ill effects. That a guy would play through an ailment for 7-10M but drop it to half that and all of a sudden it’s too much.

But mostly it’s the complaint about these deals that the last years when the salary dropped were never meant to be played. That they were always meant to be fake paper years.

Anyone complaining about Z quitting is an absolute moron. He has a degenerative back condition that literally no amount of surgery or rest or whatever would remove the risk of permanent damage from a bad hit. You know, the kind that happen in the NHL when you are older and slower
 

JPE123

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Jan 23, 2013
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One of the real warriors that makes this sport so great. Thanks for many great memories Z
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
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This is cool


Kronwall is one of the better people we have been able to witness pull on that jersey. I think we go three As but if they wanted to make Kronwall captain for his last year I would get it. That dude loves this organization and his teammates. I know his knee and as a result his game isn't what it was, but it is hard not to really appreciate who Kronwall is and what he is all about.

I think Larkin is capable, but losing Zetterberg and then Kronwall in an eight month period is going to be a really big deal to this team. Even as we have declined they represent a lot of what is great about what this franchise as been and I really appreciate all they have given to this team and the city.

I will say hopefully Larkin, Mantha or someone takes up the fire detector mission that Zetterberg took over for Shanahan.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Sure, but they’re both going on the Hall of Fame and they’re both having their numbers retired here.

I would be very surprised if Pavel receives this honor in all honesty at least from what I have been able to gather on it. I think Zetterberg would almost have to be the one that has to sell it in terms of getting Datsyuk retired.

But I think people have overlooked how the family looks at that. There is a feeling that Datsyuk negotiated in bad faith and that the way he left was really upsetting to some in the organization. That is there, I know his biggest fans don't want to believe that but look at the way they discuss Zetterberg and Datsyuk it is a little different. In all honesty neither guy should go up before Fedorov for me and Devellano as recently as this year said that was a no go discussion topic still which is sad.

I am not sure what they will do, I hope to see #40 up there but time will tell.
 

chances14

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Jan 7, 2010
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i agree TZE. I don't see datsyuk getting his number retired as long as the illitches own the team. I'm pretty sure some in ownership believe datsyuk reneged on his contract and bailed on them. I mean fedorov's number still hasn't been retired so...zetterberg will have his number retired long before datsyuk does
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Being fair, Poster Dragonball never said he hated Z, just indicated less emotional attachment to him and made a broadshot at how he wielded the C, which is an interesting can of worms to explore. The smoke about some locker room discord the last two or three years has been a bit of a black mark on the leadership group as a whole, and something of an indignity for a franchise that had managed to avoid most of the tabloid crap since (I think) the Cujo V. Hasek days. Probably a bit unjust to hang it on Z when Yzerman (at the end of his career anyway) and Lidstrom didn't have to hold the broken halves of their ship together (with a busted back no less) the way Z had to. But class though he was, as great as he was on the ice, it's entirely plausible that he just wasn't great at building a sense of team unity, or pushing the right buttons in the locker room to get the players who have repeatedly frustrated us the last few years to buy-in to the Red Wing Way, or dispatching his lieutenants wisely to light strategic psychological fires under said players' asses when that was more appropriate. Maybe his physical problems took too much of a toll on his patience. Or perhaps, like coaches, where some are better at getting good teams to the next level, and others are better at getting raw talent to the next stage in their development, maybe Z just wasn't the right captain for the team he inherited? Of course it's also plausible he did everything a great captain could and blame resides entirely in lacking and more weakly-charactered players.

I'd err, as I think most of us would, more to the latter. But, not being privy to all that goes on behind the scenes, I can also understand how someone could conjure a less flattering narrative out of the limited facts with regard to how things crumbled here at the end. It often wasn't pretty. They obviously didn't have the talent to win many games, the coaching is often suspect as well, but too often it seemed as much a question of compete and drive as talent, and Hanks's evident and often loudly broadcasted frustrations didn't seem to provide remedy to that blight. It was maybe not completely unfair to wonder if his style was too one-note, if another tact might have been more effective in driving development of certain players, and so on.

But shrug. The time for that, if there ever was such, has passed. One the greatest to ever don the Wheel, one of the best of his generation. I salute his skill and passion, lament the manner in which his career comes to and end, but find I also have room to rejoice a little at the turning of a long and significant page in Red Wings' history.

That’s nonsense. Z’s leadership is diminished because Jeff Moss wrote a bunch of crap about tabloid nonsense?

The Wings are less talented than the Wings of yore. That is quite literally the only difference.
 

One Blurred Eye

Prefer the future.
Sep 27, 2014
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That’s nonsense. Z’s leadership is diminished because Jeff Moss wrote a bunch of crap about tabloid nonsense?

The Wings are less talented than the Wings of yore. That is quite literally the only difference.

Well, the only difference aside from a shift in ownership mindset from win at all costs to earn consistent profits, new coaching staff, the distractions of moving to a new arena and all the hubbub surrounding that, and a new captain with his own interpretation of the role, who had his own health concerns all of which may have been limiting factors to his ability to carry the role, sure. The Moss crap was probably that, but some of Z's post-game comments certainly left a sour taste, those thinly veiled passive aggressive shots at certain players, justified or not and few though they were, could be read as poor choices. And if we're being honest, there were bad games even at the end of the Lidstrom era which he handled somewhat poorly with his behavior on the ice. I'd say not nearly enough to tarnish a legacy (Yzerman had some epic end of loss meltdowns after all), but it opens the door for the contrarians to challenge our pre-conceived notions about the kind of captain he was, his effectiveness or possible lack-thereof. He was certainly a fierce competitor, but does that always make for a great leader/hockey captain? It's a fair question, maybe not the thread for it, but no need to demean the conversation by stripping out all the nuance in it to protect our precious feelings about idea of the man we may have.

He probably did the very best he could given the circumstances, and he earned the C as much as any of his predecessors, probably does all boil down to the misfortune of timing. I wish he'd have gotten a chance to helm a squad with a realistic chance of going deep, or at least one on the definite ascent. But as it is he's our most recent case study for captain of a shit Red Wing team, so it's interesting to pick it apart, with a bit of scientific detachment, and offers me an exercise in personal objectivity, so I lay out the argument as best I can conceive it, without necessarily adhering to it. One can still conclude he was a fine example of the C while confronting with dignity the possibility that he wasn't perfect at it. One can alternatively conclude, based on the enormous additional challenges outlined above, he was the best of all our captains. A decent and stronger case can be made along those lines I think. But my original post was mostly aimed at tempering the emotionalism that has posters deeply mischaracterizing the content of the minority, opposing perspectives. There are a few tiny breadcrumbs that can be followed to come to a defiant position on the subject, which makes me understand how someone could get there. I find little to risk in acknowledging and assessing them, with little to gain in terms of board civility by twisting and insulting them.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Nov 8, 2007
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I would be very surprised if Pavel receives this honor in all honesty at least from what I have been able to gather on it. I think Zetterberg would almost have to be the one that has to sell it in terms of getting Datsyuk retired.

But I think people have overlooked how the family looks at that. There is a feeling that Datsyuk negotiated in bad faith and that the way he left was really upsetting to some in the organization. That is there, I know his biggest fans don't want to believe that but look at the way they discuss Zetterberg and Datsyuk it is a little different. In all honesty neither guy should go up before Fedorov for me and Devellano as recently as this year said that was a no go discussion topic still which is sad.

I am not sure what they will do, I hope to see #40 up there but time will tell.

Someone already linked the quote where Holland said Zetterberg’s number is going up there, I have no doubt that Datsyuk’s going up there next, people will get over Datsyuk’s situation faster than they get over Fedorov’s. Datsyuk’s situation was more sympathetic.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Someone already linked the quote where Holland said Zetterberg’s number is going up there, I have no doubt that Datsyuk’s going up there next, people will get over Datsyuk’s situation faster than they get over Fedorov’s. Datsyuk’s situation was more sympathetic.

Which is odd to me that people write it. The Wings were a lot more involved in Fedorov's departure in my opinion and I always will see Datsyuk's as worse in many ways. I know why some don't but sorry I don't share that view. Listen to the part at 40 minutes where he breaks Keith Gave and Craig Custance breakdown Fedorov's situation and at 46 minutes they discuss Datsyuk. All I can say is I have heard similar sentiments expressed on Datsyuk in terms of they were hurt and betrayed by Pavel's departure and the way he went about it.



This is out there to be known. Disagree with it and I do in terms of some of this logic. But do know Fedorov and Datsyuk are viewed differently by the organization than Zetterberg. It is very important how the Ilitch family feels about this. I think those guys best chance is the team gets sold to Dan Gilbert at some point.
 
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Yemack

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Oct 30, 2007
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An elite player, a great captain, and a champion through and through

Thank you for great memories Z. Wish the best on your life after NHL.
 
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dragonballgtz

Registered User
Jul 30, 2014
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And what did Z do to make you hate him?

How does a Wings fan ‘sour’ on the Captain like that. He’s been classy and a legend throughout his career

I dont hate Z but the last few years it didn't seem like leadership was right in the locker room.
 

KJoe88

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May 18, 2012
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I dont hate Z but the last few years it didn't seem like leadership was right in the locker room.

And you base that off of what?

From what I saw the players had more fun with each other and seemed to smile more.

With the exception of AA but that’s due to a different subject.
 

dragonballgtz

Registered User
Jul 30, 2014
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Because the team was bad?

Honestly I just don't think he was as strong of a captain as some people think he was. Did Z play hard, yep... but it felt like at times he couldn't rally the troops.



Maybe it was the way this speech was edited, but it didn't seem inspirational at all. If anything it seems like it fell on deaf ears and no one really cared to listen.

Another example would be this past year and the ridiculous amount of time Nyquist spent on the hip of Z all year long. I get it, Z likes to play with Nyquist but at times this year it was clear they were just not getting it done. Those rumors of the Swedish Mafia didn't help either. I understand there are always cliques but it seemed like not everyone was on the same page.

I'm sure I'm doing a bad job at trying to describe the feeling I get coming off interviews and rumors, but it really doesn't seem like the locker room is as close as it should be.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

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Honestly I just don't think he was as strong of a captain as some people think he was. Did Z play hard, yep... but it felt like at times he couldn't rally the troops.



Maybe it was the way this speech was edited, but it didn't seem inspirational at all. If anything it seems like it fell on deaf ears and no one really cared to listen.

Another example would be this past year and the ridiculous amount of time Nyquist spent on the hip of Z all year long. I get it, Z likes to play with Nyquist but at times this year it was clear they were just not getting it done. Those rumors of the Swedish Mafia didn't help either. I understand there are always cliques but it seemed like not everyone was on the same page.

I'm sure I'm doing a bad job at trying to describe the feeling I get coming off interviews and rumors, but it really doesn't seem like the locker room is as close as it should be.


And that’s because the team had a bull**** defense, their goalies were inconsistent as hell, and you had a couple young players who have been notably lax in their preparation for the level of skill they have (Wings wouldn’t have gotten Mantha at 20 or AA in the fourth if they didn’t have huge question marks in their personalities.)

You can’t rally the troops enough to make up for a sheer lack of talent. The fact that this team was competitive in as many games as they’ve been in the last couple years is astounding. They’ve had three or four players on the ice in the last couple years that weren’t being asked to play at least a line or pairing higher than they optimally should.

“Rallying the troops” like you are saying works in a short series. It works in a short burst of games. Over a whole season? It’s incumbent on the whole roster to keep it together. If a guy tries being a rah rah, look at me guy the whole season, he’ll start to get tuned out no matter who he is if the team keeps losing.

E: and I watched that video... Jesus Christ, they just played a game where they got their **** pushed in and all the players knew it. A rah rah speech wouldn’t do crap in that locker room on that night. That is not good evidence to reflect anything on his leadership. Like he said. That game was them losing and losing because they tossed it away. A “rally the troops” type speech is needed when you have a game where your team played their asses off and the breaks beat the boys. Not where the boys got their asses soundly thrashed
 
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