News Article: Zetterberg: I will probably not play until 2020/21

KJoe88

Forever Lost.
May 18, 2012
7,019
1,310
Trenton, MI
Never on the level of Feds, Stevie, Pavel. Nonetheless, good player.

Pavs was hardly on the level of Stevie or Feds. And I love Datsyuk.

I DO NOT want to start a Datsyuk vs Zetterberg thread here, that's not my intention because I genuinely believe they were 1/2 from '07-'09, but Zetterberg has arguably been more impactful than Datsyuk in his career. Especially in the playoffs.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Habs fan here, I love Zetter.

Glad he admitted what we all know - and god speed to your organisation when he retires... should make those allergy claims all the harder if it gets to that.
 

avssuc

Hockey is for everyone!
May 1, 2016
988
340
Gulf Coast
Habs fan here, I love Zetter.

Glad he admitted what we all know - and god speed to your organisation when he retires... should make those allergy claims all the harder if it gets to that.

God? The Wings don't need God... they have Ken Holland. It's a given that some of the latest 7th round picks will turn out to be just as dominant (or better) than Z and Pav.

Seriously though, good for Z. I hope he has the guts to tell Holland that he feels great, but he has too much respect for the game to fake some LTIR BS. It would serve KH right for all of his Cleary, tire kicking, and other assorted nonsense.
 

Debrincat93

Registered User
Dec 4, 2002
22,669
468
Michigan
Nhl.com
As much as its painful to hear, we really, really need to bottom out and get some top picks here in the near future.

Dahlin would be the best thing to happen to this franchise since, probably, winning the cup in 2008. IMO.
 

Debrincat93

Registered User
Dec 4, 2002
22,669
468
Michigan
Nhl.com
God? The Wings don't need God... they have Ken Holland. It's a given that some of the latest 7th round picks will turn out to be just as dominant (or better) than Z and Pav.

Seriously though, good for Z. I hope he has the guts to tell Holland that he feels great, but he has too much respect for the game to fake some LTIR BS. It would serve KH right for all of his Cleary, tire kicking, and other assorted nonsense.

...yea, you didnt read his post properly. God Speed is "an expression of good wishes to a person starting a journey."
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,980
11,621
Ft. Myers, FL
God? The Wings don't need God... they have Ken Holland. It's a given that some of the latest 7th round picks will turn out to be just as dominant (or better) than Z and Pav.

Seriously though, good for Z. I hope he has the guts to tell Holland that he feels great, but he has too much respect for the game to fake some LTIR BS. It would serve KH right for all of his Cleary, tire kicking, and other assorted nonsense.

Zetterberg isn't going to go out of his way to hurt the Wings, that doesn't make any sense. The team doctor can just walk in and flunk his back in the first physical. That would likely hold up even if the league sends him to a third party. Players in their late 30's in the NHL would really struggle to pass a genuine 3rd party assessment by in large.

I like that he said it. His contract on the date it signed was not illegal. The NHL had left this exact sequence of events open through poor negotiations. They then tried to punish it after the league itself accepted the legality of the contract. That those contracts were not grandfathered in was a joke. He can speak honestly about it and everyone can say they cheated, but they didn't, those were the rules and the league accepted the contract.
 

Konnan511

#RetireHronek17
Sponsor
Jul 29, 2008
9,587
3,298
Sarasota, FL
It's repugnant to even speak of Kronwall like that. ...rant about something...

I do not think you know what that word means or you used it completely out of context. Regardless, with Zetterberg and Kronwall gone, this team is going to seriously lack identity. I really really hope they don't name Abdelkader Captain. I like Abby, but no.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,823
4,694
Cleveland
Zetterberg isn't going to go out of his way to hurt the Wings, that doesn't make any sense. The team doctor can just walk in and flunk his back in the first physical. That would likely hold up even if the league sends him to a third party. Players in their late 30's in the NHL would really struggle to pass a genuine 3rd party assessment by in large.

I like that he said it. His contract on the date it signed was not illegal. The NHL had left this exact sequence of events open through poor negotiations. They then tried to punish it after the league itself accepted the legality of the contract. That those contracts were not grandfathered in was a joke. He can speak honestly about it and everyone can say they cheated, but they didn't, those were the rules and the league accepted the contract.

If you're okay with GMs clearly going against the spirit of the CBA, you need to be okay with the league coming back and putting the hammer down on it. GMs had a choice to take advantage of it or not, some did and some didn't. It was clear they may be repercussions for it.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
If you're okay with GMs clearly going against the spirit of the CBA, you need to be okay with the league coming back and putting the hammer down on it. GMs had a choice to take advantage of it or not, some did and some didn't. It was clear they may be repercussions for it.

Was it, at the moment Z signed his was it clear that they were going to hammer it? Or did it become clear when Hossa signed his and there were the widely reported rumors of them negotiating an early retirement... or when Kovalchuk and the Devils made a mockery of the damn thing with that 17 year joke.

I truly don't remember anything beyond "lifetime contracts are a risk because anything can happen". Not "Red Wings are clearly gaming the system".

And I'm not okay with it, because the Wings, Hawks, and whoever were punished for breaking a rule that didn't exist at the time. You want to hammer the contracts like Parise, Suter, Weber, etc... that were signed in 2012 when it was clear as day that something was going to happen with them? I'm okay with that. In January 2009, I don't like that. I don't like going back multiple years to retroactively apply a rule that clearly wasn't even a consideration then.

That would be like if NTCs/NMCs got invalidated in this next lockout or the max term got shortened to 5 years from eight, but the total value of the contract needed to be paid out. Like instead of McDavid at 8/12.5, it's now 5/20 or whatever the max deal is. I wouldn't want that to retroactively be changed.

And lastly, just because they did a sloppy job in negotiating the cap and what you could/couldn't do in 2005's lockout shouldn't give them the impetus to crack down on it. The league negotiated poorly in that first lockout after they won their major concessions. Backdiving contracts were allowed to happen because they didn't dot their i's and cross their t's.
 

TCNorthstars

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
4,290
1,802
Lansing area, MI
If you're okay with GMs clearly going against the spirit of the CBA, you need to be okay with the league coming back and putting the hammer down on it. GMs had a choice to take advantage of it or not, some did and some didn't. It was clear they may be repercussions for it.

What was the "spirit of the CBA"?
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
God? The Wings don't need God... they have Ken Holland. It's a given that some of the latest 7th round picks will turn out to be just as dominant (or better) than Z and Pav.

Seriously though, good for Z. I hope he has the guts to tell Holland that he feels great, but he has too much respect for the game to fake some LTIR BS. It would serve KH right for all of his Cleary, tire kicking, and other assorted nonsense.

Sarcasm aside... why on Earth does it seem like so much of the narrative here is people hating Ken Holland more than they like the Wings? His assorted nonsense was at the helm the last two times the Wings won the Cup and in that decade and change when they were either #1 or #1A in terms of competitors for the Cup... in an era where the league basically ****ed the way that they built their team for the entire decade of the 90s.

He's made mistakes and overvalued some guys, but damn... sometimes I think Ken Holland burning in effigy would be praised here more than if we managed to win the Cup next year.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,240
14,743
If you're okay with GMs clearly going against the spirit of the CBA, you need to be okay with the league coming back and putting the hammer down on it. GMs had a choice to take advantage of it or not, some did and some didn't. It was clear they may be repercussions for it.

It's not going against the CBA when it's not breaking any rules. Why should we be OK with the league coming down on something that was perfectly legal, is the real question?

Do you drive 10 miles under the speed limit just in case they lower the speed limit eventually? I mean, that's the level of ridiculousness we are talking about here as far as I'm concerned.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,823
4,694
Cleveland
Was it, at the moment Z signed his was it clear that they were going to hammer it? Or did it become clear when Hossa signed his and there were the widely reported rumors of them negotiating an early retirement... or when Kovalchuk and the Devils made a mockery of the damn thing with that 17 year joke.

I truly don't remember anything beyond "lifetime contracts are a risk because anything can happen". Not "Red Wings are clearly gaming the system".

And I'm not okay with it, because the Wings, Hawks, and whoever were punished for breaking a rule that didn't exist at the time. You want to hammer the contracts like Parise, Suter, Weber, etc... that were signed in 2012 when it was clear as day that something was going to happen with them? I'm okay with that. In January 2009, I don't like that. I don't like going back multiple years to retroactively apply a rule that clearly wasn't even a consideration then.

That would be like if NTCs/NMCs got invalidated in this next lockout or the max term got shortened to 5 years from eight, but the total value of the contract needed to be paid out. Like instead of McDavid at 8/12.5, it's now 5/20 or whatever the max deal is. I wouldn't want that to retroactively be changed.

And lastly, just because they did a sloppy job in negotiating the cap and what you could/couldn't do in 2005's lockout shouldn't give them the impetus to crack down on it. The league negotiated poorly in that first lockout after they won their major concessions. Backdiving contracts were allowed to happen because they didn't dot their i's and cross their t's.

There was immediate talk of these contracts becoming more widespread and that teams were doing an end-run around the cap. Was it immediately clear the league would do what they did? No, and there was a bit of a wait and see if the league would validate the deals. When the league didn't immediately kill these deals, GMs got a little bolder (and dumber - the Kovy deal).

When the GMs decided to do something that was clearly going against what the CBA intended, it had to be a concern that the league would come back on them. And that's how your other examples aren't really like what the GMs were doing with these backdiving deals. Giving guys NMCs or whatever are clearly allowed in the CBA. It's not something being invented out of whole cloth to try to get a leg up and maneuver outside of the CBA.

Everyone knew these deals were a cheat. Maybe, if we want to interpret the CBA as strictly and literally as possible, a legal cheat, but still a cheat.

What was the "spirit of the CBA"?

The spirit of the CBA was the idea of what it was trying to do, and there was actual language in the original CBA that gave the league the power to go after teams that they felt violated that. Such as these backdiving deals. If the league wanted to, they could (and should) have stepped in immediately, refused to okay Z's deal, and killed these things before they got going. If Mouser is around, he'll provide an argument for why the league waited for Kovy's deal to come down on it, but I have always found this the weakest part of what the league did. Waiting was tacit approval, but there were more than a few articles at the time about Bettman's unhappiness with such deals.

If you have a kid and tell them not to have any candy before supper, and they grab a handful of cookies instead, you're not going to buy the argument that the cookies are somehow wholly different from candy and should be okay. What's intended is clear, even if not entirely spelled out.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,823
4,694
Cleveland
It's not going against the CBA when it's not breaking any rules. Why should we be OK with the league coming down on something that was perfectly legal, is the real question?

Do you drive 10 miles under the speed limit just in case they lower the speed limit eventually? I mean, that's the level of ridiculousness we are talking about here as far as I'm concerned.

Again, like the comparison to NMCs and what not, this isn't a valid comparison. I don't know what more you have to have to see that it was a cheat when one of the guys who signed one of the deals admits it was a cheat.

And it wasn't perfectly legal. If it was perfectly legal, the league wouldn't have challenged Kovy's deal, either. The league just waited for the most egregious example so that it would have a slamdunk case.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
It's not going against the CBA when it's not breaking any rules. Why should we be OK with the league coming down on something that was perfectly legal, is the real question?

Do you drive 10 miles under the speed limit just in case they lower the speed limit eventually? I mean, that's the level of ridiculousness we are talking about here as far as I'm concerned.

Or to put it a different way using the speed limit idea...

Pretty much every person on Earth goes 1-5 MPH above the limit. Against the spirit of the law, but there is no penalty. Some go 10 mph over. Clearly against the spirit of the law but the police, most of the time when it is in the flow of traffic, won't even bat an eye.

Then you got the crazy **** that blazes past at 25 mph over who will clearly get tagged.

After the guy who buzzes past at 25 mph over gets caught, should the police go back and issue a ticket to all the people who were going 5-10 over for the time they saw them and didn't stop them? Or should they just ramp up their vigilance and stop any new people from whipping past?

Frankly, as soon as they let Pronger and the idea of LTIRetirement happen, they should have realized how bull**** their own rules were and just given up on the sham of recapture for the deals prior to 2012. Instead of the increasing amount of incredulity about stuff like Hossa's skin condition or having to wrangle about concussions or third party physicals... Make it simple. Any contract before 7/1/2013 was grandfathered in because the league already had their chance to strike it down or pitch a ***** about it. Any contract after is invalid from being more than 8 years.

My biggest problem was that the league gave the teams a way out of the recapture without really giving them a way out. Would you have paid Johan Franzen 30M+ and lost a 30g winger for nothing to avoid recapture with that compliance buyout? How about 50M+ to Z and lose a #1C for nothing.

It was basically, you made us look like fools under the CBA that we negotiated and now we're mad.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,486
26,894
If you're okay with GMs clearly going against the spirit of the CBA, you need to be okay with the league coming back and putting the hammer down on it. GMs had a choice to take advantage of it or not, some did and some didn't. It was clear they may be repercussions for it.

Disagree. Its was a cheap and bad way to tried and basically rort the system to basically get a lower salary cap yet pay the player more. Its outright cheating whether it was legal or not.

How was it clear there may be repercussions for it? It was within the rules of the CBA at the time. The league has to approve all contracts. They approved Zetterbergs.

Who knows what "the spirit" of the CBA is. Do you think the owners go by the spirit of the CBA when they're deciding what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue? Or by the actual legal document?

I still don't understand how the league could go back and retroactively change the rules of the CBA.
 

Lil Sebastian Cossa

Opinions are share are my own personal opinions.
Jul 6, 2012
11,436
7,446
How was it clear there may be repercussions for it? It was within the rules of the CBA at the time. The league has to approve all contracts. They approved Zetterbergs.

Who knows what "the spirit" of the CBA is. Do you think the owners go by the spirit of the CBA when they're deciding what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue? Or by the actual legal document?

I still don't understand how the league could go back and retroactively change the rules of the CBA.

The NHLPA is not very strong and/or the constituency just wanted to play hockey and weren't going to be interested in holding up the discussion for about ten of their members?
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,486
26,894
Or to put it a different way using the speed limit idea...

Pretty much every person on Earth goes 1-5 MPH above the limit. Against the spirit of the law, but there is no penalty. Some go 10 mph over. Clearly against the spirit of the law but the police, most of the time when it is in the flow of traffic, won't even bat an eye.

Then you got the crazy **** that blazes past at 25 mph over who will clearly get tagged.

After the guy who buzzes past at 25 mph over gets caught, should the police go back and issue a ticket to all the people who were going 5-10 over for the time they saw them and didn't stop them? Or should they just ramp up their vigilance and stop any new people from whipping past?

Frankly, as soon as they let Pronger and the idea of LTIRetirement happen, they should have realized how bull**** their own rules were and just given up on the sham of recapture for the deals prior to 2012. Instead of the increasing amount of incredulity about stuff like Hossa's skin condition or having to wrangle about concussions or third party physicals... Make it simple. Any contract before 7/1/2013 was grandfathered in because the league already had their chance to strike it down or pitch a ***** about it. Any contract after is invalid from being more than 8 years.

My biggest problem was that the league gave the teams a way out of the recapture without really giving them a way out. Would you have paid Johan Franzen 30M+ and lost a 30g winger for nothing to avoid recapture with that compliance buyout? How about 50M+ to Z and lose a #1C for nothing.

It was basically, you made us look like fools under the CBA that we negotiated and now we're mad.

Totally agree. Using your speed limit analogy, they not only busted him but went back and gave tickets to all the guys they had previously let go who were doing 5 mph over the speed limit. That's nuts.

And speaking of Pronger this is the same league that allowed him to simultaneously be on the current roster of an NHL team, in the HHoF, AND an employee of the NHL front office. It's not like the league doesn't allow for loopholes to help owners.

Contracts like Zetterbergs were negotiated using the CBA rules at the time. How can GM's be expected to do their job when the league can pick and choose which rules they will retroactively change?
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,486
26,894
The NHLPA is not very strong and/or the constituency just wanted to play hockey and weren't going to be interested in holding up the discussion for about ten of their members?

Except it was the owners and GMs who were getting screwed by this rule change, not the players.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
22,823
4,694
Cleveland
How was it clear there may be repercussions for it? It was within the rules of the CBA at the time. The league has to approve all contracts. They approved Zetterbergs.

Who knows what "the spirit" of the CBA is. Do you think the owners go by the spirit of the CBA when they're deciding what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue? Or by the actual legal document?

I still don't understand how the league could go back and retroactively change the rules of the CBA.

They did approve it and I think that was a cowardly move that opened the floodgates for such deals. Instead, they waited for Kovy's deal when they could slamdunk their case.

And I'm sure owners try to hide as much revenue as they can, which is why I'm also sure the NHLPA demands as much access as possible to the financials of teams whenever negotiating the CBA comes up.

The possibility of repercussions were clear, though, because everyone knew these deals were a cheat, and there was more than a little chatter in the public about how unhappy Bettman was about these things. But GMs decided to just deal with it when the time came, and fans blew it off. But Bettman is a petty little man who doesn't forget, and the contracts for ten guys isn't a hill that 700 other union members were wanting to die for.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,240
14,743
Again, like the comparison to NMCs and what not, this isn't a valid comparison. I don't know what more you have to have to see that it was a cheat when one of the guys who signed one of the deals admits it was a cheat.

And it wasn't perfectly legal. If it was perfectly legal, the league wouldn't have challenged Kovy's deal, either. The league just waited for the most egregious example so that it would have a slamdunk case.

How is it "a cheat" when it was a 100% legal move? Every team is trying to circumvent the cap at all times, it is the league's responsibility to make it so they can't.

They dropped the ball, and several teams took advantage, which they legally had the right to do.

The league had no right to come back and punish those actions for something that was an oversight on their part, but they did anyways.

I don't know, this is one of those black and white things to me, I will never ever condemn a team for recapture, I think it was a complete BS move by the NHL.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,236
15,010
crease
The NHL shouldn't have approved the contracts if they thought they were outside the rules. It's that simple. To punish teams retroactively is ridiculous.

That said, I'm happy the biggest loopholes got fixed.
 

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