Zadorov and Varlamov... what's your analysis?

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
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Feb 24, 2012
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You really haven't. You're revising your own post history. Almost all of your posts on the subject have been primarily focused on the last "2+ seasons" or the "last few seasons" or comparing Varly's numbers against Pickard last year. It's been your primary argument. I just went back and read it all over again. That was your primary argument from the beginning, and it still is.

Like I said, his performance in 2015-16 is a fair critique to make. So is 2011-12. So will his numbers at the end of this year.

If you want to focus on those seasons, that's a fair argument. If you want to mention his numbers last year or this year as a small part of your argument that's fine as well. Focusing primarily on last year where he played with a groin and hip that needed surgery, and this year where one game can raise his save percentage 10 percentage points because we're only a 1/3 or so into the season, that's not a fair argument.

All of this is giving you a pass on not putting forth your plan for getting a better goaltender. I'd love to hear it?

You say almost all, but I have stated his time with the Avs multiple times within this thread and that Varly has had only 1 great season. The focus is on the last few seasons, because that is the impact now. Varly has been borderline bad the last 2+ seasons. Part of it is injury, but injuries are a part of Varly.

I've stated plans for goalies many, many times over the years here... it doesn't have to be restated in every thread. I think the Avs have missed the boat on selecting them early and going after the best (or at least top 3) in the draft classes. I think they missed the boat on not protecting Picks in the expansion draft (I don't think Varly would have been selected by Vegas, but if he was... they would have done us a favor). There have been trades they could have pulled off for some young goalies (Forsberg was nearly an Av). Enough solid goalies enter the UFA or cheaper trade market every year. There are many ways to attack this... but grand scheme, if a goalie isn't going to make a difference on a team... don't spend big money on them.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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You say almost all, but I have stated his time with the Avs multiple times within this thread and that Varly has had only 1 great season. The focus is on the last few seasons, because that is the impact now. Varly has been borderline bad the last 2+ seasons. Part of it is injury, but injuries are a part of Varly.

I've stated plans for goalies many, many times over the years here... it doesn't have to be restated in every thread. I think the Avs have missed the boat on selecting them early and going after the best (or at least top 3) in the draft classes. I think they missed the boat on not protecting Picks in the expansion draft (I don't think Varly would have been selected by Vegas, but if he was... they would have done us a favor). There have been trades they could have pulled off for some young goalies (Forsberg was nearly an Av). Enough solid goalies enter the UFA or cheaper trade market every year. There are many ways to attack this... but grand scheme, if a goalie isn't going to make a difference on a team... don't spend big money on them.

Protecting Pickard would not have improved the goaltending. Unless we're comparing him to Bernier, who I think we can admit is doing just as good as Picks so far. We all saw how Picks looked in a starter role last year. Any other hypothetical trades are hypothetical options.

The only legit starter to hit UFA in the next few years, that has less inconsistency problems as Varly, is Holtby. That's in 2020-21, after Varly's deal expires, and Washington would be idiots to let him go for any price the Avs would match.

Going with a cheap 1A/1B tandem rarely works out in the long run. We've seen them try it in Colorado multiple times, and it didn't work.

They tried Aebischer and Budaj. Budaj and Raycroft. Budaj and Elliott. All of those guys were viewed just as highly at the time, if not higher, than any of the cheapish starters available the next few years. They didn't end up with a legit starter after any of those attempts.

I don’t know how long everyone here has been watching the Avs, but for those that have followed them since their glory years, you should have a pretty good idea of how hard it is to find a high level goaltender to cover for this team’s mistakes, and how Varly stacks up against everyone else they’ve tried.

They’ve tried Aebischer, Budaj, Theodore, Anderson, and Varly as starters. They’ve tried Kolesnik, Aitto, Berra, Elliott, Giguerre, Raycroft, and Pickard as either backups, or split duty starters.

Out of those 12 goaltenders they’ve tried since Roy retired, I think Varly and Anderson are clearly a notch above the rest, and Andy only had one good season, before he stopped playing hard because the team sucked.

If people think Spencer Martin or any other young unproven goaltender is gonna be the answer, then they either didn’t see, or have forgotten that people said the exact same thing about Aebischer, Budaj, Aitto, Berra, and Pickard. They looked promising in a NHL backup or lower level starter role. Then were given the keys to the starter role on the big club, and they failed.

Maybe Martin pulls it off, but you can't give him the keys and walk away before he shows you he can drive at this level.

If they just give up on Varly, and look for some $2-3M goaltender, the most likely scenario is they get a $2-3M goaltender. Someone on the level of Aebischer, Budaj, Theo, Elliott, Raycroft, or Pickard. Maybe they have some good games here and there to start, but over the long haul in a starter role, they’ll clearly be at a level below Varly.

If Varly has more and more bad games like he did against Washington, then it’s a moot point. He needs to go, and they need to take a chance on someone else. Just like you said.

But, if you look back on his season this year and those bad games were few and far between like most legit NHL starters, and he shows he can give the team a chance to win most nights, and steal games here and there, then you have to be very careful about giving up on him in favor of someone else, because chances are you won’t be happy with what you get.
 
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Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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The bad games are not few and far between though. They are happening basically every other game. All year long he has a good game followed by a bad one.

Semyon Varlamov 2017-18 Game Log | Hockey-Reference.com

Read what I said again. "If you look back on his season this year..." Meaning at the end of the year. Judging his season roughly a 1/3 into it isn't a full body of work.

If he plays well the rest of the way, and admittedly that's an "if" people won't be able to make the same argument. We just saw how well he bounced back from the Washington game. He looked great. He just needs to keep playing that way. He can't have any more lulls. The question is, will he?

I'm not even proclaiming he will play well the rest of the way. I'm concerned as well. There's obvious reasons to have concerns. I'm just saying lets evaluate him after the season.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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Thanks, I knew exactly what you said though.

Nobody said judging him now is a full body of work. But he has played 20 games. That's a pretty good chunk. Nothing wrong with judging his current body of work. People can easy change their opinion if the results change.

It makes more sense to me to judge him on what he has done so far than to argue that he shouldn't even be judged because of what ifs.

Yes, he bounced back after the Washington game. He has been doing that after basically every bad game. He has then followed that up almost every single time with another crapper. Good, bad, good, bad, good, bad. It's how he has played all year.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Thanks, I knew exactly what you said though.

Nobody said judging him now is a full body of work. But he has played 20 games. That's a pretty good chunk. Nothing wrong with judging his current body of work. People can easy change their opinion if the results change.

It makes more sense to me to judge him on what he has done so far than to argue that he shouldn't even be judged because of what ifs.

Yes, he bounced back after the Washington game. He has been doing that after basically every bad game. He has then followed that up almost every single time with another crapper. Good, bad, good, bad, good, bad. It's how he has played all year.

You can judge him for how he's looked in the past. Generally you don't judge a player's season in the middle of December, that's all I'm saying.

I also don't agree at all with the characterization that every other game is a bad one for him, but to each their own.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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You can judge him for how he's looked in the past. Generally you don't judge a player's season in the middle of December, that's all I'm saying.

I also don't agree at all with the characterization that every other game is a bad one for him, but to each their own.

Generally, players are judged constantly.

Games 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20 were good imo. That's basically every other game imo. A couple times he had back to back good games. And once he had back to back bad games. Do you disagree with which games were bad? Or just the every other part?
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
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Generally, players are judged constantly.

Games 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 20 were good imo. That's basically every other game imo. A couple times he had back to back good games. And once he had back to back bad games. Do you disagree with which games were bad? Or just the every other part?

I mean we're getting into pretty subjective territory on exactly which games can be defined as "good" and which ones are "bad" and it would take rewatching a lot of hockey for me to stand by those comments. Lets just cut to the chase and safely say we probably don't view them the same.
 

Bender

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Sep 25, 2002
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Not "standing on his head" does not mean he didn't play really well. He's played quite well in more than 2 games.

My issue with Varlamov isn't that he hasn't had a number of excellent games this season (he has), it's that aside from his first two games of the year, he hasn't had 2 really good games in a row. In fact, his tendency has been to have a really good game, followed by a stinker. It's like he's 'on' every other start. Check out his save%'s in October/November:

.949
1.000
.870
.943
.882
.919
.667
.950
.892
.875
.933
.792
.939

There are six games in there where he's over .930. Which of course is quite good. There are also six games in there where he's under .900. Which of course is not good.

One oddity which I notice, is that if we look at every one of Varlamov's 'good' games (.919% and above), that game was played with at least 3 days rest since his prior start. Not sure if that really means anything, but there you are.

So, random question for the group:

Which is better - a goaltender who plays .930/.890 every other start; or a goaltender who plays .910 all of the time?

The bolded seems to suggest that's a guy who isn't getting all the starts he should be getting because of a reoccurring issue. I think it would also go a long way to explain some of Bednar's head-scratching choices for a starter at times this season. Hopefully it's not permanent because at some point for playoffs, that's an issue.

As for the rest, I think it would also be interesting to see which of those games were at home and which were on the road. Overall, the Avs have played MUCH better at home than on the road this year especially when it comes to PP and PK which would have a tremendous influence on those stats right there.
 

StayAtHomeAv

Registered User
May 20, 2014
6,681
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I mean we're getting into pretty subjective territory on exactly which games can be defined as "good" and which ones are "bad" and it would take rewatching a lot of hockey for me to stand by those comments. Lets just cut to the chase and safely say we probably don't view them the same.

I original responded to you saying something about 'if the bad games are few and far between'. So don't come with the subjective argument. You and Hench have been talking a lot about Sv% as well, which isn't subjective. It can be misleading, but it's not subjective.
 
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Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,267
31,334
I original responded to you saying something about 'if the bad games are few and far between'. So don't come with the subjective argument. You and Hench have been talking a lot about Sv% as well, which isn't subjective. It can be misleading, but it's not subjective.

I’m not going to definitely list which games were “good” and “bad” without double checking to see how many good saves he made, and how exactly the plays developed, and how the goals went in, during every single game this season. That would take all day, and I’m not gonna spend the time doing that.

I just know my general impression is not even close to yours that he played bad every other game. I'm comfortable saying that without spending all day rewatching every game. And that’s totally fine we see it differently, I'm not saying anything bad about your opinion. You’re more comfortable listing exactly which games were good and bad right off the bat. Fair enough.
 
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