Zadina's first 9 games and burning an ELC year

How much production would Zadina need to have in his first 9 games to justify keeping him up?


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Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
If he is ready you burn the ELC. Holding guys back for a potential better contract down the line is a bad play if it hurts their development. If he is NHL ready he should be in the NHL. Developing bad habits in the AHL is now how we want our future star prepping for the NHL. Now if he doesn't look ready, I am totally pro not rushing him into the NHL since he doesn't have to go back to juniors.

As for the team overall, I think this team could be more interesting than many suspect. I expect the PP to much improved adding Ras, Vanek, and likely Zadina to it. Having a healthy Green be on the 1st unit should help. I don't even think Blash could trot Kronner out on the first unit anymore.

I mean you could run a 1st PP unit of:
Zadina- Larkin- Vanek
Mantha- Green

AA-Ras (Guys amazing on faceoffs)-Bert
Daley- Nielson (not ideal but he's the best defensively and has good vision to QB the PP)

I think that is a huge improvement over last season, which should create a lot more offense.

Defensively we will be horrid unless Cholo and/or Hronek make the team and just really step up. I'd like to see one of them make the team and knock Daley off the PP unit. Until the D is fixed I don't see us making the playoffs, but I do think we could be a #10 team and not the #16 team everyone thinks we will be.

As bad as this will sound I'd rather have Ericsson or Abby on one of the units. Probably subtracting Bert.
 

Inspiration

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
494
390
If he is ready you burn the ELC. Holding guys back for a potential better contract down the line is a bad play if it hurts their development. If he is NHL ready he should be in the NHL. Developing bad habits in the AHL is now how we want our future star prepping for the NHL. Now if he doesn't look ready, I am totally pro not rushing him into the NHL since he doesn't have to go back to juniors.

As for the team overall, I think this team could be more interesting than many suspect. I expect the PP to much improved adding Ras, Vanek, and likely Zadina to it. Having a healthy Green be on the 1st unit should help. I don't even think Blash could trot Kronner out on the first unit anymore.

I mean you could run a 1st PP unit of:
Zadina- Larkin- Vanek
Mantha- Green

AA-Ras (Guys amazing on faceoffs)-Bert
Daley- Nielson (not ideal but he's the best defensively and has good vision to QB the PP)

I think that is a huge improvement over last season, which should create a lot more offense.

Defensively we will be horrid unless Cholo and/or Hronek make the team and just really step up. I'd like to see one of them make the team and knock Daley off the PP unit. Until the D is fixed I don't see us making the playoffs, but I do think we could be a #10 team and not the #16 team everyone thinks we will be.
Interesting fact: no Red Wing averages more P/60 at 5v4 than Nielsen since he signed in Detroit (yet, during that same stretch he averaged fewer 5v5 P/60 than Darren Helm). For as mediocre as his 5v5 production is, Nielsen has been a very good point producer on both special teams units throughout his career. Cutting back his 5v4 time last season was a bizarre decision by the coaching staff, given that it is one of his strongest attributes at this stage in his career. If anything, Nielsen's even-strength time should be reduced in favor of making him a key contributor on both the power-play and penalty-kill.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
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Someone please put together an argument for why Carolina will be better than Detroit next season.

But before you answer, please keep in mind their goaltending tandem currently consists of Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek.

This is also the same team that let Bill Peters walk, replacing him with first-year head coach Rod Brind'Amour, hired Don Waddell to be their GM and gave away Jeff Skinner for draft picks.

The only team to get significantly worse on that list is the Islanders.

What major moves did the Rangers make? Or Ottawa? or Montreal?
 
Last edited:
Sep 28, 2017
6,510
6,620
Grand Rapids, MI
Someone please put together an argument for why Carolina will be better than Detroit next season.

But before you answer, please keep in mind their goaltending tandem currently consists of Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek.

This is also the same team that let Bill Peters walk, replacing him with first-year head coach Rod Brind'Amour, hired Don Waddell to be their GM and gave away Jeff Skinner for draft picks.



What major moves did the Rangers make? Or Ottawa? or Montreal?

I'd rather you argue how we are better than those teams. It'll be a crapshoot who finishes last, but there is a clear tier of bottom feeders.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,957
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Someone please put together an argument for why Carolina will be better than Detroit next season.

But before you answer, please keep in mind their goaltending tandem currently consists of Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek.

This is also the same team that let Bill Peters walk, replacing him with first-year head coach Rod Brind'Amour, hired Don Waddell to be their GM and gave away Jeff Skinner for draft picks.



What major moves did the Rangers make? Or Ottawa? or Montreal?

The Ranger, Ottawa and Montreal all have more existing talent on the roster a few that you can expect to bounce back a little. Price and Lundqvist make two of them less likely. Until Erik Karlsson actually is traded Ottawa is better than us. Even then Duchene is similar to Larkin and Stone is better than anyone we have on the roster.
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Jun 23, 2018
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[QUOTE="Inspiration, post: 149208531, member: 202815"]Interesting fact: no Red Wing averages more P/60 at 5v4 than Nielsen since he signed in Detroit (yet, during that same stretch he averaged fewer 5v5 P/60 than Darren Helm). For as mediocre as his 5v5 production is, Nielsen has been a very good point producer on both special teams units throughout his career. Cutting back his 5v4 time last season was a bizarre decision by the coaching staff, given that it is one of his strongest attributes at this stage in his career. If anything, Nielsen's even-strength time should be reduced in favor of making him a key contributor on both the power-play and penalty-kill.[/QUOTE]

I think Nielsen's 5v5 P/60 will go up based on:

1. Having better linemates (Bert/Nike/Raz/Zadina)...possibly Vanek on occassion, but it'll probably be primarily Nike + Bert/Raz. Should have 25-30 Assists & 15-20G, so 50pts. is not an unreasonable expectation as a 2C.

2. He won't be the shutdown C anymore...less QoC%

3. He has more offense than what his role has been thus far & does everything fairly well, except play a physical game.

4. His ES TOI should go up & special teams TOI should remain the same or go up, so 17:30 min TOI...we'll need his offense more, let AA learn to be the main shutdown C.

Without Nielsen as the main shutdown C, the TOP 6 F's will be carrying a heavier load on D, keeping Mantha, Bert & AA's next contracts in check. Factor in Zetterberg's absence as well. Let the young guns earn it & take the reigns.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AA fail @ 3c, he's a cherry picking/unengaged/defensively/subpar IQ & playmaker, inept winger. I think Raz will be 3c by the TDL, probably sooner.
 

19 for president

Registered User
Apr 28, 2002
2,832
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Lol I actually forgot about Nyquist. I might actually try him on the point, move Nielson to center, move Ras to the wing and boot Baby Bert or AA. Please keep Abby far away from all PP units. The guy is not a good PP guy.
 

Inspiration

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
494
390
I think Nielsen's 5v5 P/60 will go up based on:

1. Having better linemates (Bert/Nike/Raz/Zadina)...possibly Vanek on occassion, but it'll probably be primarily Nike + Bert/Raz. Should have 25-30 Assists & 15-20G, so 50pts. is not an unreasonable expectation as a 2C.

2. He won't be the shutdown C anymore...less QoC%

3. He has more offense than what his role has been thus far & does everything fairly well, except play a physical game.

4. His ES TOI should go up & special teams TOI should remain the same or go up, so 17:30 min TOI...we'll need his offense more, let AA learn to be the main shutdown C.

Without Nielsen as the main shutdown C, the TOP 6 F's will be carrying a heavier load on D, keeping Mantha, Bert & AA's next contracts in check. Factor in Zetterberg's absence as well. Let the young guns earn it & take the reigns.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AA fail @ 3c, he's a cherry picking/unengaged/defensively/subpar IQ & playmaker, inept winger. I think Raz will be 3c by the TDL, probably sooner.
Last 4 seasons - 5v5 P/60 (P1/60):

Nielsen: 1.28 (0.99)
Helm: 1.30 (1.07)
Abdelkader: 1.28 (1.06)

This includes 2016-2017, where Nielsen's most common linemates were Vanek and Nyquist, as well as his final two seasons in New York, where he played extensively with Okposo and Anders Lee. I find it awfully unlikely that the last four seasons (during which he has played with some decent talent) is somehow not reflective of his true talent level and at the age of 34 he is suddenly going to turn into a better player. At some point we have to give up the ghost of Nielsen being an effective 5v5 point producer.
 
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Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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Someone please put together an argument for why Carolina will be better than Detroit next season.

But before you answer, please keep in mind their goaltending tandem currently consists of Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek.

This is also the same team that let Bill Peters walk, replacing him with first-year head coach Rod Brind'Amour, hired Don Waddell to be their GM and gave away Jeff Skinner for draft picks.



What major moves did the Rangers make? Or Ottawa? or Montreal?
Carolina’s goaltending will make or break them.
 

Fear

Registered User
Nov 17, 2014
1,479
366
Someone please put together an argument for why Carolina will be better than Detroit next season.

Slavin - Faulk
De Haan - Hamilton
Fleury - Pesce

I think there's only one Detroit defender who would even crack that lineup. (Green in place of Fleury, if he can play left)
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
Slavin - Faulk
De Haan - Hamilton
Fleury - Pesce

I think there's only one Detroit defender who would even crack that lineup. (Green in place of Fleury, if he can play left)

Both teams gave up about the same amount of goals as last season. So you're telling me with Darling/Mrazek they're going to give up fewer?
 

Shaman464

No u
May 1, 2009
10,211
4,420
Boston, MA
Someone please put together an argument for why Carolina will be better than Detroit next season.

But before you answer, please keep in mind their goaltending tandem currently consists of Scott Darling and Petr Mrazek.

This is also the same team that let Bill Peters walk, replacing him with first-year head coach Rod Brind'Amour, hired Don Waddell to be their GM and gave away Jeff Skinner for draft picks.



What major moves did the Rangers make? Or Ottawa? or Montreal?

Well here's what an executive told Custance about the Wings this year:

“They’re bottoming out this year,” said the executive. “I don’t think they have a chance of winning. They’re going to be picking in the bottom three or four.”

And another NHL source had this to say:

“The bottom three teams in the league are going to be the Canucks, Ottawa and Detroit,” he said.
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,819
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Zadina isn't vaulting this team, with an AHL defense, into a bubble team. Especially without Zetterberg and Anthansiou as a center, to start at least. Howard's gonna get injured, who knows how Bernier is going to do. Secondary scoring is going to be non-existent. List goes on.

You only get better by playing against people better than you, Zadina should be a mainstay.

Exactly. If Connor McDavid couldn't lift the Oil into a playoff spot last year I have no idea why anyone would think Filip Zadina is going to make us a playoff team. It's totally delusional. We have bar none the worst defense in the league. Every center is being slotted up a position above where they were last year when we were a bottom 5 team. We do not have a center who can come in and contribute if Rasmussen ends up getting slotted on the wing like Larkin did during his rookie year. Your 3rd line center will possibly be Darren Helm and your 4th line center could end up being Luke Glendening. That is not going to end well, and that doesn't even factor in Larkin having to match up against the best forwards and d-men in the league. It wouldn't be a shock if his point total took a hit this year.

It's going to be a long season with the only hope being that we can win the lottery and draft Jack Hughes. That's a franchise turning outcome and makes us highly competitive at center. Still need to build out the defense, but at least we'd be fully set at center for the next 10 or so years. That's an outcome you can build around.
 
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ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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Let's put it this way, I think the Red Wings have a better shot at making the playoffs in a wild card spot than they do finishing last in the league.

It's not crazy to suggest the Rangers, Islanders, Hurricanes and Panthers will be worse than Detroit next season.
Next to impossible being more likely than impossible doesn't make either likely.
 

Claypool

Registered User
Jan 12, 2009
13,670
4,352
If Connor McDavid couldn't lift the Oil into a playoff spot last year I have no idea why anyone would think Filip Zadina is going to make us a playoff team.

The only teams guaranteed to not make the playoffs out of the Western Conference next season are Arizona and Vancouver. You can make an argument for every other Western team to make the playoffs. That's how good the overall conference is.
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
9,589
3,424
I believe his best fit will be with Nielson and Vanek . I could be wrong but Vanek and Zadina similar players and Zadina can learn from him . Nielson can teach him few things too
 

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