Zadina vs. Hughes

[saska sault]

Until they both make the NHL, it's a relatively short race. Hughes has shown he's at that level. Now we have to wonder if Zadina will be. There's no guarantee.

True, was just stating judging draft picks a year or so after has never been my thing. Wasn't long ago people thought Chychurn? I may have misspelt that.. Anyways, us missing out on him was the biggest mistake. It worked out just fine for us so far.. But that could also change. Zadina could be 22 before he becomes an impact player or he could end up like Yakupov.

 

[vladdy16]

Yeah, I wouldn't go that far.

Why?

 

[Winger98]

Why?

Because not only was Chelios a consistent Norris contender who drove offense, but he was also a mean, physical defender who didn't hesitate to take whatever liberties he could. Hughes is a pretty skater who will probably put up some points, but I don't see anything of that other half of Chelios in him. As @The Zetterberg Era said above, it was something Chelios was a master at and we don't see much of in today's game.

You want to run with the Rafalski comparison, I'll go with it. A #2/3 guy, puts up some offense, doesn't get killed defensively. Yeah, sounds right. Or maybe a Teppo Numminen, who was a decent skater.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Because not only was Chelios a consistent Norris contender who drove offense, but he was also a mean, physical defender who didn't hesitate to take whatever liberties he could. Hughes is a pretty skater who will probably put up some points, but I don't see anything of that other half of Chelios in him. As @The Zetterberg Era said above, it was something Chelios was a master at and we don't see much of in today's game.

You want to run with the Rafalski comparison, I'll go with it. A #2/3 guy, puts up some offense, doesn't get killed defensively. Yeah, sounds right. Or maybe a Teppo Numminen, who was a decent skater.

The player he reminds me of most is probably Karlsson. I think he is a true #1 In this league shortly. His passing is a lot like Rafalski though, the guy can go several games without missing a pass and it seems he always is on the tape.

 

[MBH]

Rafalaski was a solid D. But remember, he didn't even play in the NHL until he was 25. Hughes is already in the NHL.
Way too early to start determining who's the best of the 4 D draft after Dahlin but this year:
Hughes 6 in the NHL
Boqvuist 0 points in 3 games in the AHL.
Bouchard 2-1-3 in 6 AHL games.
Dobson 0-1-1 in 2 NHL games (healthy scratch a lot lately)

Not for nothing, but that first round in 2018 could go down as one of the best ever for NHL defensemen.

 

[Winger98]

The player he reminds me of most is probably Karlsson. I think he is a true #1 In this league shortly. His passing is a lot like Rafalski though, the guy can go several games without missing a pass and it seems he always is on the tape.

I don't think he'll put up numbers like Karlsson, but he'll have similar defensive shortcomings that will be more pronounced because of his size - especially in the playoffs when the league remembers to play the body and the interference ratchets up. I'm not a big fan of small D, though, at least not if you're looking for him to be your #1.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don't think he'll put up numbers like Karlsson, but he'll have similar defensive shortcomings that will be more pronounced because of his size - especially in the playoffs when the league remembers to play the body and the interference ratchets up. I'm not a big fan of small D, though, at least not if you're looking for him to be your #1.

He also isn't hopefully going to suffer those injuries. I don't have that fear on Hughes. Get him a stay at home crease clearing partner and profit. I think he is a lot better than you Karlsson defensively but agree not the same peak offensively. But I think the bad defensively crowd on Karlsson wasn't really super accurate. He was much better in his own end than a lot credit him for.

 

[Marky9er]

It's crazy to me that people want to trade Athanasiou - who scored 30 playing with dog**** last year... while somehow thinking Zadina is just automatically going to replace that.

Zadina probably could replace 0 goals and -11, though?

What exactly was the injury AA had at the beginning of the season and how long do we extend the free pass? Not even joking. Obviously it's a tough way to start the season, he doesn't look like the same player. Not yet.

 

[MBH]

Zadina probably could replace 0 goals and -11, though?

What exactly was the injury AA had at the beginning of the season and how long do we extend the free pass? Not even joking. Obviously it's a tough way to start the season, he doesn't look like the same player. Not yet.

Sure.
What are the chances he'd hit 30 though?
Good chance AA still does.

The injury came in the game when he scored that typical AA goal, using typical AA speed. He smashed his back into the boards.
Back injuries can be hard to get over.
It just doesn't look like he's skating at 100 percent.

 

[vladdy16]

The player he reminds me of most is probably Karlsson. I think he is a true #1 In this league shortly. His passing is a lot like Rafalski though, the guy can go several games without missing a pass and it seems he always is on the tape.

I think his positioning, intensity and hand/stick fighting skills are way ahead of a player like Karlsson potentially.

Krug and Jensen use straight line force and awareness to try and dislodge pucks from corners, Rafalski and Hronek use silky smooth edges combined with explosiveness to shrink gaps and move bodies off line with timing, whereas Hughes and Chelios have a similarity where they are so light on their feet that they can't generate the lift(so to speak) that Rafalski or Hronek can, but they can flutter into a gap and use volume punching on the inside(so to speak) to keep offenders on their heels.

I've seen so little of Hughes still, that I'm hypothesizing more than theorizing. But it's really cool to see a young d-man with a next generation bag of tricks when it comes to hand fighting and stick checking.

 

[nhlisawesome]

I think his positioning, intensity and hand/stick fighting skills are way ahead of a player like Karlsson potentially.

Krug and Jensen use straight line force and awareness to try and dislodge pucks from corners, Rafalski and Hronek use silky smooth edges combined with explosiveness to shrink gaps and move bodies off line with timing, whereas Hughes and Chelios have a similarity where they are so light on their feet that they can't generate the lift(so to speak) that Rafalski or Hronek can, but they can flutter into a gap and use volume punching on the inside(so to speak) to keep offenders on their heels.

I've seen so little of Hughes still, that I'm hypothesizing more than theorizing. But it's really cool to see a young d-man with a next generation bag of tricks when it comes to hand fighting and stick checking.

Yeah and could've had Hughes but instead we picked a headcase in Zadina.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Hughes currently on pace for 70 points and the Calder.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Hughes currently on pace for 70 points and the Calder.

Bully for him.

 

[Dotter]

This thread is rough to read. So many facepalmsies.

The game the OP and "fans" of his nature are playing is they find players that aren't tearing it up compared to their piers, then they predict 'bust' without using the word 'bust' to avoid the topic shift.... then if the 'bust' does happen in 5 years, they get to come on the forum to chest pound how great they are at evaluating talent. And for any player they were down on in the past eventually become great, they sweep it under the rug and are completely hush-hush about it.

It's all about chest-pounding and being an internet warrior. Nothing more.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Hughes currently on pace for 70 points and the Calder.

Hughes currently on pace to be a powerplay specialist whose production doesn't necessarily appear on the stat sheet outside of his powerplay production. His 0.33 P1/60 at even strength is SO incredible. Is Hughes a good player? Yes. Has he done anything that makes me feel like I've missed an all time great? With 50% of his production being secondary assists, and 80% of his production being tied the powerplay, absolutely not.

His pace is currently leading to a stat line of: 82 games, 7 goals (all of which are on the powerplay) and 61/62 assists (48 of which are on the powerplay). Call me skeptical. Even the top offensive defensemen of recent years (Burns, Karlsson) were producing a majority of their offense at even strength. Considering Vancouver is tied for the most powerplay opportunities in the league, with a top 5 conversion rate, they will eventually have the opportunities and conversion slow down, and when it does, will Hughes still score at the same level?

Is it disappointing that Zadina hasn't hit the ground running in the NHL? Yes. Do I feel like he is now heavily behind the curve? Not really.

 

[Run the Jewels]

This thread is rough to read. So many facepalmsies.

The game the OP and "fans" of his nature are playing is they find players that aren't tearing it up compared to their piers, then they predict 'bust' without using the word 'bust' to avoid the topic shift.... then if the 'bust' does happen in 5 years, they get to come on the forum to chest pound how great they are at evaluating talent. And for any player they were down on in the past eventually become great, they sweep it under the rug and are completely hush-hush about it.

It's all about chest-pounding and being an internet warrior. Nothing more.

I wonder why Steve Yzerman completely revamped our NA scouting as quickly as he did?

 

[Pavels Dog]

The earlier you pick, the greater the chance of finding a very good player.. but, there are also more players taken after your pick that could turn out just as good or better. People better get used to the fact that there will be guys taken after Rasmussen, Zadina, Seider and our next 1st round pick(s) that will become stars.

Win some, lose some.

For what it's worth, I think people are overreacting to Hughes' early going. He's a small guy, offensively very gifted and has 8 of his 10 points so far on a powerplay that's been very hot with guys like Pettersson and Boeser on it. If Zadina for example got the chance to be the shooter on such a PP, with Pettersson feeding him passes, how many goals would he have?

 

[Takumi3000]

The earlier you pick, the greater the chance of finding a very good player.. but, there are also more players taken after your pick that could turn out just as good or better. People better get used to the fact that there will be guys taken after Rasmussen, Zadina, Seider and our next 1st round pick(s) that will become stars.

Win some, lose some.

For what it's worth, I think people are overreacting to Hughes' early going. He's a small guy, offensively very gifted and has 8 of his 10 points so far on a powerplay that's been very hot with guys like Pettersson and Boeser on it. If Zadina for example got the chance to be the shooter on such a PP, with Pettersson feeding him passes, how many goals would he have?

Sorry to say this but Canucks PP1 unit was absolute garbage and bottom of the league in conversion rate before Hughes made the hop over from PP2. Those guys got going because of Hughes quarterbacking the unit and feeding everyone. Not the other way around.

 

[saska sault]

It must be exhausting constantly ripping on prospects who have barely started their careers, don't even get to enjoy watching them develop.

You think every other team hated every prospect picked around Daystuk or Zetterberg? No, it happens. Sure everyone would love a redraft at certain points but just enjoy what we got and let's hope the kid turns out to be a decent player. I like his attitude and think he's going to be a solid player for us in the future.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

For what it's worth, I think people are overreacting to Hughes' early going. He's a small guy, offensively very gifted and has 8 of his 10 points so far on a powerplay that's been very hot with guys like Pettersson and Boeser on it. If Zadina for example got the chance to be the shooter on such a PP, with Pettersson feeding him passes, how many goals would he have?

That's not fair. Hughes has been awesome on that PP. His puck movement is a big part of how they're doing what they're doing.

and I didn't even want to draft Hughes, so I'm not just saying that.

 

[Dotter]

I wonder why Steve Yzerman completely revamped our NA scouting as quickly as he did?

Ummmmm, everyone in the hockey world said if/when Ken Holland leaves, Tyler Wright is certainly following him. So maybe Stevie was forced to "revamp" the scouting if he wanted any N/A scouts at all?

Then again, it's also very common for new GM's to "revamp" when they take control of their new team.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Sorry to say this but Canucks PP1 unit was absolute garbage and bottom of the league in conversion rate before Hughes made the hop over from PP2. Those guys got going because of Hughes quarterbacking the unit and feeding everyone. Not the other way around.

I didn't say Hughes was a passenger, he's obviously part of the equation. But it's a hot start, driven mostly by the powerplay and mostly by scoring against bad teams to boot (7 points against Detroit and LA). People are overreacting, which is really easy to do. Hughes and Zadina are similar in how I've never doubted they can become big-time powerplay guys. Zadina may be behind in the development curve currently, but I still think his floor is middle-6 winger who can be a weapon on a powerplay. With both guys, a big question is how effective they can be at ES and on the defensive side of the puck.

 

[Go Wings]

Ummmmm, everyone in the hockey world said if/when Ken Holland leaves, Tyler Wright is certainly following him. So maybe Stevie was forced to "revamp" the scouting if he wanted any N/A scouts at all?

Then again, it's also very common for new GM's to "revamp" when they take control of their new team.

The fact in the this draft we didn't take anyone in the CHL and focused a lot of European prospects says a lot to me.

 

[MBH]

Trouba is a pretty good one, though a lot of our board doesn't like him. Isn't as good as prime Chelios, but he is a #1 D that wears his enjoyment of punishing guys for all to see, while bringing a ton to the table. Keith was certainly a guy that stepped across lines with his stick but is older now. Weber is a lot bigger and also again older, but he can be a very nasty piece of business when he wants to be.

That kind of stuff is leaving the game, but Chelios was a master at it. Man would he give it to Yzerman to the point where you were screaming in the stands. I mean you have the great old timers like Big Bird and Shore that are constantly talked about for this, I believe Potvin was pretty rugged as well if I remember right. But Chelios and Pronger were kind of the last guys of not only outstanding D-man, but just played the game surly angry and laughed at you half the time while they were punishing you.

Robinson was tough. But he wasn't naturally dirty every f***ing chance he got like Chelios. Not many guys hold a candle to Chelios in that department.

 

[Takumi3000]

I didn't say Hughes was a passenger, he's obviously part of the equation. But it's a hot start, driven mostly by the powerplay and mostly by scoring against bad teams to boot (7 points against Detroit and LA). People are overreacting, which is really easy to do. Hughes and Zadina are similar in how I've never doubted they can become big-time powerplay guys. Zadina may be behind in the development curve currently, but I still think his floor is middle-6 winger who can be a weapon on a powerplay. With both guys, a big question is how effective they can be at ES and on the defensive side of the puck.

It’s not just a hot start. Your just talking from a perspective of his point totals. The reality is he does everything well for them. From the amount of reliable minutes he plays to the way he can play. Quick transition out of his own zone, dynamic skating and quick outlet passes. Canucks have never had a dmen that could play like this in franchise history. Regardless of his point totals, he has been a pleasure to watch. Just look at how badly they missed him after he left the game yesterday night with an injury. Yes the schedule has been light so far but you can’t control who you play. Let’s see if his marvellous play continues.