Recalled/Assigned: Zadina recalled: 12/6 update

[ThankGord]

Really Blashill put Zadina in the top six preferably with Larkin, Bertuzzi.

Whats the worst that could happen, we lose 5-1 again?

 

[GreatGordie9]

I would expect Zadina will stay up and with Abby close to coming back he will be sent down as he has four games max left without burning the contract.

 

[lilidk]

this organization need new coaching staff in both GR and Detroit
Zadina should be with Larkin and Fabri , I don't care if he doesn't deserve it . He needs learn from the best , also moving Bert to AA will help AA big time and we will have 2 good lines , but first find the coach Steven

 

[NORiculous]

Since the coach likes Filppula & Glendening duo, how about:
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Fabbri
Athanasiou-Nielsen-Zadina
Helm-Filppula-Glendening

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Awesome. Kid deserves it

Sucks for GR

Yeah I read that the actually sent him down so he could play in a couple games in GR because the Wings had such a long break. That being sent down wasn't a commentary on his play.

 

[RedWingzz]

Since the coach likes Filppula & Glendening duo, how about:
Bertuzzi-Larkin-Fabbri
Athanasiou-Nielsen-Zadina
Helm-Filppula-Glendening

I don't want Zadina anywhere near Nielsen. Personally, I'd prefer having him in GR than in the NHL playing with washed up vets. It really makes no sense at all to play Zadina with Nielsen. I can't think of a single reason that makes sense to have Nielsen as Zadina's centerman.

 

[Dotter]

Yeah I read that the actually sent him down so he could play in a couple games in GR because the Wings had such a long break. That being sent down wasn't a commentary on his play.

What we know is Zadina is on Yzerman's direct radar. There was a tweet, I think by HSJ, saying that Yzerman was personally going to GR to watch Zadina and evaluate his play.

That tells me Yzerman has some concerns about Zadina and wants to see more out of him. My own speculation based on what we know, along with Yzerman's good buddy Peirre talking about Zadina might be on the trading block soon... if things don't start looking up.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Unrelated to your post @Lazlo Hollyfeld....

And now lets talk about coaching. Clearly Blashill is on thin ice with the general fans and I'm sure he is feeling the heat. I have no doubt if Yzerman says he wants Zadina to get some prime minutes on the top two lines, Blashill isn't going to tell SFY to go f*** himself.

But as @Hekka pointed out, which has been completely ignored, he put together a very comprehensive list of drafted players and where' they're playing and what kind of minutes they are getting. Zadina is not being misused if you look at how other "better" coaches are playing their same year drafted kids.

It's just fans being whiny and needing to blame someone.

 

[NORiculous]

I don't want Zadina anywhere near Nielsen. Personally, I'd prefer having him in GR than in the NHL playing with washed up vets. It really makes no sense at all to play Zadina with Nielsen. I can't think of a single reason that makes sense to have Nielsen as Zadina's centerman.

At least this way he has AA instead of Helm.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't want Zadina anywhere near Nielsen. Personally, I'd prefer having him in GR than in the NHL playing with washed up vets. It really makes no sense at all to play Zadina with Nielsen. I can't think of a single reason that makes sense to have Nielsen as Zadina's centerman.

Well since Zadina in his 5 games has managed more points than Nielsen, maybe they're hoping he'll get Frans going?

(which would be both hilarious and sad)

 

[Hen Kolland]

What we know is Zadina is on Yzerman's direct radar. There was a tweet, I think by HSJ, saying that Yzerman was personally going to GR to watch Zadina and evaluate his play.

That tells me Yzerman has some concerns about Zadina and wants to see more out of him. My own speculation based on what we know, along with Yzerman's good buddy Peirre talking about Zadina might be on the trading block soon... if things don't start looking up.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Steve knows that there are 4 games remaining before a decision on Zadina needs to be made for the rest of the year. My belief is the interest that SY has in Zadina is determining what is the best place for him to develop moving forward. I believe that this decision was to ultimately bring him up, and that he is going to burn year 1 of his ELC. The ultimate reason being, he wants to properly challenge Zadina mentally but also capitalize on getting him into contract negotiations earlier; there is a podcast recorded by Max Bultman and Prashanth Iyer for The Athletic called "Wings for Breakfast" that presents some very interesting POVs on Zadina's future.

Firstly, while the AHL is a good developmental league, they point to Teemu Pulkkinen as a cautionary tale for over-ripening prospects. Habits and tendencies can be developed in the AHL, and they work quite well, but ultimately they are damning in the NHL. Specifically they point to Pulkkinen being able to use his shot from anywhere on the ice at any point in time and score, but at the NHL level, his shot took far too long to get off in a quicker and more tightly defended league, with better goaltending that don't get beat as frequently by long distance, stationary shots. The habits that Zadina will develop in his career, you want to be the best habits, that work in the NHL level. The only way he can develop those habits is to play in the NHL, with NHL caliber players, against NHL caliber defenders.

Secondly, they discuss the ELC slide, and how there is evidence of how burning year 1 is actually a benefit for the organization in some instances. Obviously, you can't choose to delay your negotiation window, but there is evidence supporting getting top prospects to the negotiation table earlier before they start to hit their prime. Rather than get into an even more long-winded explanation, I will share two instances.

Dylan Larkin signed his contract after a 16 goal 63 point season in 82 games. The year after he scored 32 goals and 73 points in 76 games.

David Pastrnak signed his contract (considered to be the best value in the NHL) after a 34 goal and 70 point season in 75 games. In his 177 games since, his 82 game average is 45 goals and 95 points.

Do you think you can sign Larkin for $6.1M/year after last year, or Pastrnak for $6.8M/year since he has blown up even further?

Just some food for thought that isn't "Yzerman is trying to trade Zadina."

 

[Dotter]

Steve knows that there are 4 games remaining before a decision on Zadina needs to be made for the rest of the year. My belief is the interest that SY has in Zadina is determining what is the best place for him to develop moving forward. I believe that this decision was to ultimately bring him up, and that he is going to burn year 1 of his ELC. The ultimate reason being, he wants to properly challenge Zadina mentally but also capitalize on getting him into contract negotiations earlier; there is a podcast recorded by Max Bultman and Prashanth Iyer for The Athletic called "Wings for Breakfast" that presents some very interesting POVs on Zadina's future.

Firstly, while the AHL is a good developmental league, they point to Teemu Pulkkinen as a cautionary tale for over-ripening prospects. Habits and tendencies can be developed in the AHL, and they work quite well, but ultimately they are damning in the NHL. Specifically they point to Pulkkinen being able to use his shot from anywhere on the ice at any point in time and score, but at the NHL level, his shot took far too long to get off in a quicker and more tightly defended league, with better goaltending that don't get beat as frequently by long distance, stationary shots. The habits that Zadina will develop in his career, you want to be the best habits, that work in the NHL level. The only way he can develop those habits is to play in the NHL, with NHL caliber players, against NHL caliber defenders.

Secondly, they discuss the ELC slide, and how there is evidence of how burning year 1 is actually a benefit for the organization in some instances. Obviously, you can't choose to delay your negotiation window, but there is evidence supporting getting top prospects to the negotiation table earlier before they start to hit their prime. Rather than get into an even more long-winded explanation, I will share two instances.

Dylan Larkin signed his contract after a 16 goal 63 point season in 82 games. The year after he scored 32 goals and 73 points in 76 games.

David Pastrnak signed his contract (considered to be the best value in the NHL) after a 34 goal and 70 point season in 75 games. In his 177 games since, his 82 game average is 45 goals and 95 points.

Do you think you can sign Larkin for $6.1M/year after last year, or Pastrnak for $6.8M/year since he has blown up even further?

Just some food for thought that isn't "Yzerman is trying to trade Zadina."

I don't think Teemu Pulkkinen constantly shooting 4-foot wide and 4-feet high is a bad habit he learned in the AHL.

Larkin was a real NHLer his first NHL year. He put up 45 points at the age of 19 and was a defensively responsible player that could out-skate anyone in the world. He was a kid you have to play in the NHL.

But yes, Larkin is on a value contract. But he's also not an elite hockey player.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Glendening in the Top 6 over Zadina truly baffles me.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't think Teemu Pulkkinen constantly shooting 4-foot wide and 4-feet high is a bad habit he learned in the AHL.

Larkin was a real NHLer his first NHL year. He put up 45 points at the age of 19 and was a defensively responsible player that could out-skate anyone in the world. He was a kid you have to play in the NHL.

But yes, Larkin is on a value contract. But he's also not an elite hockey player.

Pulkkinen's biggest problem wasn't his accuracy, it was the inability to get into a position to take a shot, and when he did, it was either in an extremely low probability of success area, or he didn't have the quick release to get it off.

As for Larkin, yes, he was a real NHLer as you state, but that doesn't change a damn thing about the point that Prashanth and Max are making in their podcast. By him being "ready" for the NHL expedited the need for a second contract, and that led to his deal being signed before he broke out. Pastrnak entering the NHL when he did expedited the need for a second contract, and that led to Boston having one of the most prolific players in hockey signed to the best contract in hockey. Compare Pasta's deal to Kucherov's and you can see the difference when it comes to signing before or after a breakout.

The point in favor of calling up Zadina and keeping him around is, he needs to be challenged to become the best player he can be, and that requires him to learn how to be at his best in the NHL, not the AHL; and in the process, the Wings hopefully position themselves to sign a contract with term that they are expecting Zadina to outplay. It's the reason that Boston is one of the best managed teams in hockey.

 

[newfy]

I would expect Zadina will stay up and with Abby close to coming back he will be sent down as he has four games max left without burning the contract.

I've seen this a couple times in this thread. Zadina isnt junior eligible, he burning a year of his ELC this season wherever he plays. There isnt a game limit to worry about this year, AHL or NHL a year is off the books for him.

What we know is Zadina is on Yzerman's direct radar. There was a tweet, I think by HSJ, saying that Yzerman was personally going to GR to watch Zadina and evaluate his play.

That tells me Yzerman has some concerns about Zadina and wants to see more out of him. My own speculation based on what we know, along with Yzerman's good buddy Peirre talking about Zadina might be on the trading block soon... if things don't start looking up.

Where there's smoke, there's fire.

Unrelated to your post @Lazlo Hollyfeld....

And now lets talk about coaching. Clearly Blashill is on thin ice with the general fans and I'm sure he is feeling the heat. I have no doubt if Yzerman says he wants Zadina to get some prime minutes on the top two lines, Blashill isn't going to tell SFY to go **** himself.

But as @Hekka pointed out, which has been completely ignored, he put together a very comprehensive list of drafted players and where' they're playing and what kind of minutes they are getting. Zadina is not being misused if you look at how other "better" coaches are playing their same year drafted kids.

It's just fans being whiny and needing to blame someone.

Theres a lot in this post but I dont agree with any of it really. To start, Yzerman going to watch Grand Rapids ma have been to specifically watch Zadina but you not liking Zadina does not automatically mean this is because he has concerns and wants to see more out of him. It means the guy is a 6th overall pick who just turned 20 and the GM wants to see him play because he figures into the teams long term plans one way or another. He cant get a good read on him in Detroit because hes playing with junk on the worst team of the last 20 years.

It could also mean that Yzerman planned on going to that game anyways because the wings had a long break. When people asked about it, he said hes watching him Wednesday night and then going to decide. That doesnt mean he went to Grand Rapids specifically about Zadina, but just that he would decide on calling him up later in the week because they have a lot of time and Grand Rapids is only 2 and a half hours down the highway.

Theres no record of Yzerman and Mcguire being friends anywhere as far as I can tell so you calling them good buddies any chance you get to make your point sound better comes across as pretty stupid as well.

As for the coaching thing. Ya fans might be whiny and need to blame someone as part of the issue. The other part is that the wings are in a 10 game losing streak and on pace to set the record for worst goal differential of the last 20 years. The wings recently went 4 games where they scored 2 goals. And yet, Zadina who by the eye test and stats has been one of the wings better forwards in that time frame still hasnt gotten a chance on an offensive line. How many of these comparable players from the same draft year are even remotely close to being in a comparable situation? Oh, none? Yeah I think that kinda puts your whiny and bitching about nothing idea to bed. Hes not being given a chance depsite playing well and the team playing like shit. He should at least get shuffled onto a better line late in a game when theyre losing to try to spark something

 

[Hen Kolland]

There isnt a game limit to worry about this year, AHL or NHL a year is off the books for him.

This part is not accurate, but all the other points are well taken.

 

[Mlotek]

It's been no secret Pierre and Steve have been good friends for a long time. Pierre hinted back in march Stevie coming back to Detroit.

What Pierre hinted something in March that the entire hockey world was expecting to happen since..... at least 5-6 months beforehand?

Pierre must be the oracle to know such information. I mean BFFFFFFF with Yzerman.

 

[Dotter]

Theres no record of Yzerman and Mcguire being friends anywhere as far as I can tell so you calling them good buddies any chance you get to make your point sound better comes across as pretty stupid as well.

I've been a member of LGW.com since 2000/01 and became part of HFboards in 2003/04 I believe under an alias and email I have since long forgotten. I thought it was basic common knowledge through-out the years they were good friends. Back when Pierre was Hartford coach. I mean before the great Scotty Bowman announced his retirement, nobody knew his plans for retirement including the Illitches or even his own wife, Suella... the only people who knew was the limited few people he trusted in his inner circle, Pierre Mcquire and longtime Red Wings associate coach Barry Smith and Neale I believe.

I guess I'm going to look stupid because this use to be common knowledge before the internet was tweeters, facebooks and googles.

 

[Henkka]

Fake news!

 

[Henkka]

Glendening in the Top 6 over Zadina truly baffles me.

3 skill players on same line would baffle me too.

Somebody has to go on dirty areas.

Just hopeless to whine about this year after year, coach after coach. Everybody does the same because it just works best.

It's not xBox fantasy, it's real hockey.

 

[Dotter]

What Pierre hinted something in March that the entire hockey world was expecting to happen since..... at least 5-6 months beforehand?

Pierre must be the oracle to know such information. I mean BFFFFFFF with Yzerman.

The hockey world expects everything all the time. Zadina could turn out to be a bust... people will come out saying "I expected it, I've been telling you!!". Zadina could be a 40 goal guy and people will come out and say "I expected it but nobody listens to me!!!".

The true oracles are every random forum poster on this site. "I already knew this 5-6 months beforehand.... I've been telling everyone but nobody listens!!!"

 

[Dotter]

Fake news!

What's fake news?

 

[Henkka]

What's fake news?

Your comment.

In a sarcastic way. Typical message board way.

 

[Dotter]

Your comment.

In a sarcastic way. Typical message board way.

I don't have inside intel, you are correct. I can only go by the sources and accounts I've read online. Credible sources. Like nobody knew Scotty Bowman had plans to retire, including his wife or the Illitches... but Peirre Mcquire did because he was a close trusted friend.

I don't think anyone on this forum have special inside information.. and if they do and said something, they'd get tar-and-feathered around here.

 

[ricky0034]

And now lets talk about coaching. Clearly Blashill is on thin ice with the general fans and I'm sure he is feeling the heat. I have no doubt if Yzerman says he wants Zadina to get some prime minutes on the top two lines, Blashill isn't going to tell SFY to go **** himself.

But as @Hekka pointed out, which has been completely ignored, he put together a very comprehensive list of drafted players and where' they're playing and what kind of minutes they are getting. Zadina is not being misused if you look at how other "better" coaches are playing their same year drafted kids.

It's just fans being whiny and needing to blame someone.

raw ice time isn't everything,it's also about who they are playing with

most common even strength lines for the players in that post you mention:

Hayton: Dvorak and Kessel
Kotkaniemi: Armia and Drouin
Lundestrom: Rakell and Silfverberg
Farabee: Hayes and Laughton
Svechnikov: Aho and Teravainen
Tkachuk: Duclair and Logan Brown

see if you can spot the difference between those and Helm+1 point Nielsen

maybe it's a little too subtle for you?

here i'll help out,combined points of those sets of linemates this year:

Hayton: 35
Kotkaniemi: 30
Lundestrom: 38
Farabee: 21
Svechnikov: 48
Tkachuk: 23

Zadina: 7

doesn't seem out of place at all am I right?

 

[Bench]

I don't think anyone on this forum have special inside information.. and if they do and said something, they'd get tar-and-feathered around here.

Tar and feathers are so old school. What we do around here is make them wear a scarlet letter on their username.

@Ricelund