Player Discussion Zach Parise

[Bazeek]

Hopefully it's us. We need a 2nd line center - errr...

I'd rather not. I like Granlund but he's not a center and we really don't need him on the wing.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I'd rather not. I like Granlund but he's not a center and we really don't need him on the wing.

It was sarcasm/joke. /sigh

 

[Bazeek]

It was sarcasm/joke. /sigh

More my fault than yours. It is, unfortunately, not an uncommon idea in some corners of the internet.

 

[Northerner]

Did he really waive his NTC? And if so, is he just a player that no team really sees as a value to them for a potential Cup run?

 

[Bazeek]

Did he really waive his NTC? And if so, is he just a player that no team really sees as a value to them for a potential Cup run?

He agreed to waive it for NYI specifically, which reportedly is the only team he's been asked about.

I'm sure many teams see value in him for a potential Cup run, but there might only be one team/GM willing to take on his contract.

 

[Gabrielor]

Per Freidman wgr:

islanders wild deal was

koivu
Parise

for

Ladd
1st
Bellows

koivu wouldn’t waive

 

[ThatGuy22]

Did he really waive his NTC? And if so, is he just a player that no team really sees as a value to them for a potential Cup run?

Yes he waived it.

No it does not mean teams see no value to him for a potential playoff run, it just means any deal for him is complicated and determining the appropriate return is tough.

His contract for the team acquiring him is actually pretty great. It only has real money for two more years, after which its quite easy to trade to a capfloor team or straight out buyout.

The risk to the Wild given those two facts are incredible, so the return has to be worth it to trade him.

Let's take the potential trade with the NYI that fell through that was way under analysed in the media.

Ladd was certainly part of the return, to make the money work. But the Wild absolutely wanted something else of value in return, because Parise is still a 25+ goal scorer, and Ladd is an AHLer at this point.

Parise's contract carries almost ZERO risk for the Islanders, and it's criminal that no one kind of put that out there in the analysis of the trade falling through.

Consider this scenario, Parise plays the rest of this year and 2 years with the Islanders. At that point he had 3 years and 4 million in salary remaining.

The buyout on that for NYI would be a 444k caphit, over 6 years. Which is ridiculously manageable. The Wild at that point if NYI decided to buyout Parise would instantly be on the hook for his cap-recapture of and carry roughly 6.5 million caphits for the 2022, 2023 and 2024 season.

If they want to buy him out after just next year, it's an 800k caphit for 8 years. Certainly not ideal, but a heck of a lot better than carrying 5 million cap hits on Ladds buyout.

So if you're the Wild, what return would you need in order to trade a 25 goal scorer, that the team you're trading to him to could buyout in 1.5 years sticking you with 6.5 million in dead cap for the next 3 years?

To me, at minimum I would requires Sorokin and like two conditional first round picks if he's bought out.

It's complicated.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Per Freidman wgr:

islanders wild deal was

koivu
Parise

for

Ladd
1st
Bellows

koivu wouldn’t waive

Source, because he absolutely did not say that in his 30 thoughts posted yesterday.

If Koivu was part of the deal, it was dead before it leaked. Because Koivu made it clear two days before the deadline he wasn't waiving.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Russo speculating on the podcast that when Brassard broke his jaw, the Isles needed a center and when the 1st went to Ottawa for JGP, the deal was unlikely because that 1st was likely going to be coming to us as part of the deal for Zach.

A lot more there too involving retaining more money on Zach and the buyout for Ladd not really helping much either.

 

[Gabrielor]

Source, because he absolutely did not say that in his 30 thoughts posted yesterday.

If Koivu was part of the deal, it was dead before it leaked. Because Koivu made it clear two days before the deadline he wasn't waiving.

Don’t have a time stamp, but it’s somewhere in the middle portion.

02-27 Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman with The Instigators

 

[Bazeek]

Don’t have a time stamp, but it’s somewhere in the middle portion.

02-27 Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman with The Instigators

It's at 17:40

 

[ThatGuy22]

It's at 17:40

Ok, so it was an extremely early iteration of the deal if true.

Would have been a terrible deal for the Wild.

 

[Bazeek]

Ok, so it was an extremely early iteration of the deal if true.

Would have been a terrible deal for the Wild.

Because of the recapture risk? Maybe. It depends on how well-founded the idea of the Wild calling the league's bluff in a worst-case scenario is. Seems a little far fetched to me, but I guess you never know.

It also seems unlikely that the actual deal would have been that simple. I'm not sure what sort of language they would/could come up with to juggle cap and manage contingencies, but there'd probably be something along those lines in there. It's hard to know what to think about it without more details.

I don't at all disapprove of moving on from Parise, though.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Because of the recapture risk? Maybe. It depends on how well-founded the idea of the Wild calling the league's bluff in a worst-case scenario is. Seems a little far fetched to me, but I guess you never know.

It also seems unlikely that the actual deal would have been that simple. I'm not sure what sort of language they would/could come up with to juggle cap and manage contingencies, but there'd probably be something along those lines in there. It's hard to know what to think about it without more details.

I don't at all disapprove of moving on from Parise, though.

I'd be fine with moving on from Parise assuming there is language in the deal preventing (ie compensating heavily) for him being bought out. As soon as he's out of Minnesota he's a no brainer buyout candidate in 2021 or 2020 for whatever team trades for him.

If BG isn't putting that language in a deal and has Parise's value set roughly at returning bad contract + 1st, it's a terrible deal and risk for Minnesota. Parise's contract is only bad for us.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Because of the recapture risk? Maybe. It depends on how well-founded the idea of the Wild calling the league's bluff in a worst-case scenario is. Seems a little far fetched to me, but I guess you never know.

It also seems unlikely that the actual deal would have been that simple. I'm not sure what sort of language they would/could come up with to juggle cap and manage contingencies, but there'd probably be something along those lines in there. It's hard to know what to think about it without more details.

I don't at all disapprove of moving on from Parise, though.

Partly. Also partly that Bellows is fairly irrelevant to us. And that a later 1st + Bellows shouldn't be enough to bridge the gap between trading ~30 goal, ~50 point NHL player for a buyout candidate to only save ~$3M in cap space.

 

[Bazeek]

Partly. Also partly that Bellows is fairly irrelevant to us. And that a later 1st + Bellows shouldn't be enough to bridge the gap between trading ~30 goal, ~50 point NHL player for a buyout candidate to only save ~$3M in cap space.

I'm kind of skeptical on the Bellows part of this, which sounds like a guess based on the Minnesota ties. He's the same age and has AHL numbers similar to Sokolov's, and I don't think anyone here is holding their breath on Sokolov being a big part of the team's future.

But I agree that as stated, without the presumably missing details, that deal doesn't look great.

 

[thestonedkoala]

If Marleau got a 3rd, maybe Koivu is seen the same way. So Bellows = 3rd. So a 1st + Ladd for Parise seems pretty light.

 

[Northerner]

Because of the recapture risk? Maybe. It depends on how well-founded the idea of the Wild calling the league's bluff in a worst-case scenario is. Seems a little far fetched to me, but I guess you never know.

It also seems unlikely that the actual deal would have been that simple. I'm not sure what sort of language they would/could come up with to juggle cap and manage contingencies, but there'd probably be something along those lines in there. It's hard to know what to think about it without more details.

I don't at all disapprove of moving on from Parise, though.

Parise is the Mauer of the Wild. He's consistently productive (I'm sure people here will point out injuries sustained) and higher paid and Minnesotan, and gets seemingly nothing but hate from so-called fans.

 

[Engebretson]

I'm very curious about this whole recapture penalty scenario and how it plays out. If the Wild and Russo are so sure the NHL isn't going to enforce the cap recapture, then I imagine we'll be able to hear the mob marching from Vancouver demanding to know why the NHL punished them and let the Wild off the hook (I'm sure they won't care that the Canucks penalty was far more manageable than the Wild's potential penalty).

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I was ready for the Parise Era to be over......clean slate and all that. I have no regrets about Suter at $7.5m so to me the re-build begins with Koivu retiring and Parise being shown the door at the draft.

 

[thestonedkoala]

I have no regrets about Suter at $7.5m

Only complaints would be to drop Suter's minutes. They did a good job at dropping it from 26 to 24 (and even dropping it from 28 a few seasons ago).

I'd like to see Suter at around 21-22 minutes a game. I'd like to see Spurgeon up at around 22-23 minutes a game. Brodin should see what he's at 20 - 21 minutes. Dumba < 20 minutes.

 

[SupremeNachos]

I'm very curious about this whole recapture penalty scenario and how it plays out. If the Wild and Russo are so sure the NHL isn't going to enforce the cap recapture, then I imagine we'll be able to hear the mob marching from Vancouver demanding to know why the NHL punished them and let the Wild off the hook (I'm sure they won't care that the Canucks penalty was far more manageable than the Wild's potential penalty).

I've also heard that Parise will be a hard guy to LTIR unless he has a serious injury. He wants to play until the end of his deal, so if his back acts up but it's manageable he will refuse LTIR.

 

[MuckOG]

I've also heard that Parise will be a hard guy to LTIR unless he has a serious injury. He wants to play until the end of his deal, so if his back acts up but it's manageable he will refuse LTIR.

The trick would be keeping the back pain "manageable"....because speaking from experience, back pain gets tougher to deal with the older you get...couldn't even imagine the pain Parise will be going through when he hits 40 yo.

 

[SupremeNachos]

The trick would be keeping the back pain "manageable"....because speaking from experience, back pain gets tougher to deal with the older you get...couldn't even imagine the pain Parise will be going through when he hits 40 yo.

It's one of the things I love about him as a player. The nonstop motor and relentless style, but that kind of thinking does tend to screw over most athletes that follow that path.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Parise looks like he is skating through snow. He has been slowing down for a couple of years, but it looks like his legs are going. His inability to break the puck out is creating dangerous situations in the D zone.