Zach Hyman appreciation thread

[ToMaLe]

It's fine for people to have their opinions. However, when people don't like line combos and vent their anger in a player appreciation thread with comments like "stone hands" and "no skill" etc. that's what I find annoying. They are wrong and even if they were right, why not express their opinions in the proper place? Hyman was quite good last season, improved a fair bit from the year previous and he deserves zero flack for coaching decisions

 

[hotpaws]

Marleau is the speedy forecheck. The one line he ran that was pure skill was JVR-Bozak-Marner, which he sheltered as much as possible.

Hyman's ice-time ended up that way because we took significantly more penalties than we drew. If the opposite happens he's near the middle of the pack ice-time wise.

That line was extremely effective with him last year, and he was converting at a solid rate. I get the knocks for year 1, but if he plays like he did last year he's fine in that role.

you said grit not speed and there's zero grit on AM's proposed new line , not to mention the need for a forechecker is much lower when all 3 forwards can make a play with the puck as opposed to having a player who has to constantly dump the puck in which creates the need to forecheck

the problem with the Bozak line wasn't grit , it was because they were poor defensively and even if they were gritty they'd still be weak defensively

Hyman has his spot regardless of production as has been proven by his 1st season here and by how Babcock has coached in the past .

 

[93LEAFS]

I agree with this and I believe this is the issue - some people are paying attention and have noticed Hyman's improvement whereas others aren't paying attention and are stuck on the same narrative.

Yeah, if he goes back to converting only 4.5% at 5v5 again, I'll be screaming to put him on the 4th line again. But, if he brings what he did last year and converts at a 9.6% rate, I think we should be fine with that. It allows us to have a 3rd line that should overwhelm opponents, while the top 2 can win most battles on their own.

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, if he goes back to converting only 4.5% at 5v5 again, I'll be screaming to put him on the 4th line again. But, if he brings what he did last year and converts at a 9.6% rate, I think we should be fine with that. It allows us to have a 3rd line that should overwhelm opponents, while the top 2 can win most battles on their own.

he can go as low as 2% and he won`t lose his spot regardless how loud the fan base screams

and as i already posted we have more than enough quality wingers for the top 3 lines even if Babs chooses to play Hyman on the 4th line , this team lines aren`t dependent of Hyman playing with either Mathews or JT

 

[93LEAFS]

he can go as low as 2% and he won`t lose his spot regardless how loud the fan base screams

and as i already posted we have more than enough quality wingers for the top 3 lines even if Babs chooses to play Hyman on the 4th line , this team lines aren`t dependent of Hyman playing with either Mathews or JT

Yeah, but he didn't. He earned his spot last year, lets not act like he didn't. So, lets stop focusing on year 1, and see what he follows it up with. Last year he was perfectly fine in a top 6 role, and played well. If he goes back to being an inefficent player at 5v5, you'll see me complain. But, until that happens again, I'm not going to rag on the kid.

Edit: I also don't want anyone on the Leafs to respond to the whims of the fanbase. Generally the loudest ones complaining are defiantly wrong and righteously dumb

 

[Nithoniniel]

I think people are overly concerned with counting stats while ignoring that a lot of Babcock's approach is built around having 3-pairs of skilled guys, and mix grit on each line. Instead of stacking a top 6 and having a lacking bottom 6.

A lot of what makes an otherwise very good player great is that they can turn two third liners, into a legitimate first line, which allows you to "spread the wealth" throughout the line-up. Look at what Sidney Crosby has played with throughout his career. He plays with Kunitz, Dupuis, Hornqvist, Sheary, and Guentzel.

I get the knocks on Hyman from year 1, but he was much improved or at least converted at a better rate this year. Is he one of Bab's favorites? Absolutely. But, it is not like that is the case for no reason.

It's an approach that I agree with. I made a study of my own last summer, or perhaps the summer before that, where I looked at player combinations and diminishing returns from skill. My preliminary findings was that depending on how good the best player on a line was, he saw a diminishing return from the second best player. The better your line driver is, the less it mattered how good his best wing man was. And that return was even less when you took it another step and looked at the effect the third best player had on his linemates.

I find that logical. Better players need to rely less on their linemates, which leads to more consistent results. A Crosby can play with anyone, because he can do whatever they can't. Two lesser but still good players can still get great results if they complement each other well, but are more dependent on each other.

I also think it's quite logical that someone who plays on a line with two great players will find that they can cover a lot of the workload. That means that overall ability might mean less than having something specific to offer. Sometimes that might be just shooting ability, other times it is ability to make space, or being a defensive conscience.

 

[Gary Nylund]

.

I did read what you said and I don't have a problem with people saying Hyman has stone hands or whatever else, they're free to say it and I'm free to say they're wrong. The constant complaints about him being on our top line are annoying though - anyone can see that they've completely derailed this thread.

Nithoniniel showed some nice analysis as far as Hyman's production goes showing it to be quite good considering his role. If someone wants to rebut this they should do more than say "he should get 50 ES points" (just to choose one example of what I consider to be nonsense posted ITT).

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, but he didn't. He earned his spot last year, lets not act like he didn't. So, lets stop focusing on year 1, and see what he follows it up with. Last year he was perfectly fine in a top 6 role, and played well. If he goes back to being an inefficent player at 5v5, you'll see me complain. But, until that happens again, I'm not going to rag on the kid.

he didn`t earn the opportunity for another chance after how poorly he performed during his first season and as i keep saying and will repeat again

how many wingers do we need before Hyman`s spot in the lineup is even debateable

why is he entitled to a spot beside AM-JT without any discussion that there may be a more suitable player

and when has the objective stop being to build the best team possible and now has become he`s fine because he leeches points off uber skilled line mates

 

[93LEAFS]

It's an approach that I sympathize with. I made a study of my own last summer, or perhaps the summer before that, where I looked at player combinations and diminishing returns from skill. My preliminary findings was that depending on how good the best player on a line was, he saw a diminishing return from the second best player. The better your line driver is, the less it mattered how good his best wing man was. And that return was even less when you took it another step and looked at the effect the third best player had on his linemates.

I find that logical. Better players need to rely less on their linemates, which leads to more consistent results. A Crosby can play with anyone, because he can do whatever they can't. Two lesser but still good players can still get great results if they complement each other well, but are more dependent on each other.

I also think it's quite logical that someone who plays on a line with two great players will find that they can cover a lot of the workload. That means that overall ability might mean less than having something specific to offer. Sometimes that might be just shooting ability, other times it is ability to make space, or being a defensive conscience.

Yeah, I completely agree. Its why most teams best offensive drivers are centers (because the play is built around them), and they can carry weaker wingers. Now, there are elite wingers, but a line-driving winger is fairly rare, especially when talking about North American raised players.

Also, with 3 strong lines, it allows us to really attack teams 2nd and 3rd lines, and win with those advantages. Although, this just shows something that is true among all HFboards team boards, which is that their coach is always missing out somehow. If Hyman goes back to shooting less than 5% at 5v5, I'll be yelling along everyone else to put him on the 4th line, because he isn't capitalizing playing with Matthews. But, if he says converting closer to 10% than 5%, we are reaping the advantages elsewhere in the line-up.

 

[93LEAFS]

he didn`t earn the opportunity for another chance after how poorly he performed during his first season and as i keep saying and will repeat again

how many wingers do we need before Hyman`s spot in the lineup is even debateable

why is he entitled to a spot beside AM-JT without any discussion that there may be a more suitable player

and when has the objective stop being to build the best team possible and now has become he`s fine because he leeches points off uber skilled line mates

The best team doesn't mean the line with Matthews or JT getting the most points. It is about having a balanced attack, and he is one of our strongest forechecker and helps us win battles down low. I think given his success Babcock deserves some benefit of the doubt here.

 

[hotpaws]

The best team doesn't mean the line with Matthews or JT getting the most points. It is about having a balanced attack, and he is one of our strongest forechecker and helps us win battles down low. I think given his success Babcock deserves some benefit of the doubt here.

Marner
Nylander
Marleau
Brown
Jonnson
Kappanen
Grunstrom
Levio

i'm pretty sure between these 8 wingers we can balance the lines without Hyman if he got injured and he is in no way an irreplaceable piece in our line up

also we wouldn't have to forecheck or battle for the puck near as much if he had the skill to make a play with the puck on his stick

 

[93LEAFS]

Marner
Nylander
Marleau
Brown
Jonnson
Kappanen
Grunstrom
Levio

i'm pretty sure between these 8 wingers we can balance the lines without Hyman if he got injured and he is in no way an irreplaceable piece in our line up

also we wouldn't have to forecheck or battle for the puck near as much if he had the skill to make a play with the puck on his stick

We differ on opinion. No point in continuing down this road. You have your opinion, I have mine. I think you are not appreciating Hyman for what he did last year as a highly effective player, you don't.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Marner
Nylander
Marleau
Brown
Jonnson
Kappanen
Grunstrom
Levio

i'm pretty sure between these 8 wingers we can balance the lines without Hyman if he got injured and he is in no way an irreplaceable piece in our line up

also we wouldn't have to forecheck or battle for the puck near as much if he had the skill to make a play with the puck on his stick

You have 4 unproven players in your top 9, its best you let Babcock do the coaching.

 

[hotpaws]

You have 4 unproven players in your top 9, its best you let Babcock do the coaching.

and how proven was Hyman before he was glued to our top line ?

not to mention no player comes into the league "proven" they all need a chance to ''prove" themselves

nice try , however it was swing and a miss

 

[Shanty]

I wonder how many Penguins fans yelled and screamed about Kunitz on Crosby's wing over the years? I wonder how many of them stopped after they won a cup with that duo together?

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

I appreciate him on the first line

 

[hotpaws]

I wonder how many Penguins fans yelled and screamed about Kunitz on Crosby's wing over the years? I wonder how many of them stopped after they won a cup with that duo together?

i wonder when people will stop using higher skilled players to compare Hyman with , Kunits was no screaming hell but he had

- six 20 plus goal season
- five 50 plus point seasons

and paced for 20 plus goals and or 50 plus pts in several other season as well as producing at similar levels before he went to Pitt

but i'm left to wonder by your post how many Pitt fans think Kunitz was an integral part of Sid's production like many here seem to believe Hyman is to AM/Willie's production

 

[93LEAFS]

i wonder when people will stop using higher skilled players to compare Hyman with , Kunits was no screaming hell but he had

- six 20 plus goal season
- five 50 plus point seasons

and paced for 20 plus goals and or 50 plus pts in several other season as well as producing at similar levels before he went to Pitt

but i'm left to wonder by your post how many Pitt fans think Kunitz was an integral part of Sid's production like many here seem to believe Hyman is to AM/Willie's production

Lets not misrepresent the argument. I think putting Hyman with Matthew/Willy or now Marner and Tavares, maximizes overall team production. I think he's a solid top 9 player, not that he's integral.

Kunitz also got first unit PP time for years in Pitt.

 

[Liminality]

In Kunitz's entire career (14 years), he beat Hyman's EV point production 3 times. 40 points in 2006-07, 43 in 2011-12 and 46 in 2013-14 (career year for him).

What will Hyman's career year look like?

 

[rent free]

So your real complaint finally reveals your true appreciation for Hyman. You are upset that Babcock isn't providing the opportunity for Hyman to earn first line point totals because the isn't putting him on the power play. Got it.

Yes, you've figured out the puzzle.

I appreciate hyman, just not him being placed on the top line. He's a hard worker and plays with some grit. He's an ideal bottom 6 guy, and which is where I'd like him to play.

 

[nsleaf]

and how proven was Hyman before he was glued to our top line ?

not to mention no player comes into the league "proven" they all need a chance to ''prove" themselves

nice try , however it was swing and a miss

Hyman got his chance to prove himself and succeeded. Good on him. He should be appreciated for that, not resented.

 

[diceman934]

and how proven was Hyman before he was glued to our top line ?

not to mention no player comes into the league "proven" they all need a chance to ''prove" themselves

nice try , however it was swing and a miss

You struck out ...he hit a grand slam.

 

[therealkoho]

Marleau apparently has no grit in his game

things i learn as i get older never cease to amaze me

 

[diceman934]

In Kunitz's entire career (14 years), he beat Hyman's EV point production 3 times. 40 points in 2006-07, 43 in 2011-12 and 46 in 2013-14 (career year for him).

What will Hyman's career year look like?

As well that is without Mathews for 20 games and who’s production stayed the same over those 20 games.

 

[Shanty]

I think we can all agree on one thing.

We're debating Zach Hyman's position on the team. That means we DON'T have any important, worrying, season-altering things to debate anymore, and that's a nice thing.