Zach Bogosians contract - are we undervaluing him?

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Grind

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Jan 25, 2012
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I was pretty close on Little. I estimated we'd have to pay him a minimum of 4.5, but in buying his UFA years we may have to push the envelope to 4.8 (similar to the Gagner deal), they settled on 4.7. I figured he'd get 4 years and he got 5. Had Little hit UFA next July, I figured a team would easily pony up 4.5-5 million per season for his services.

For Wheeler, I estimated 5 years and he got 6. Salary wise, I figured this season being his last as RFA status may have dipped on the cheaper side of the deal in actual dollars as Bryan Little did, but as far as buying his UFA years, that was coming at a price and I estimated 5.5 million through those UFA years, he got 5.6. Had Wheeler hit UFA next July, I figured a team would easily pony up 5.5-6 million per season for his services.


Not to toot my own horn :)p:), but I'll put my track record here on the line and estimate what I believe Bogosian will get.

Bogosian has 2 more seasons as RFA years/contractual status, so they'll come a little cheaper, in my opinion. But after that, the price tag will rise accordingly for a mid-twenties defenceman in his prime years, with the draft status Zach has (3rd overall) and being en route to fulfilling his potential in which we've seen and been very happy with over the last 2 years in Winnipeg. His injury history won't effect the price that much, in my opinion. Whether we pay Zach or not, another team will, he knows it and Chevy knows it.

Here is my estimated guess for Zach Bogosian.

7 years, 36.5 million. AAV of about = 5.2 million per season.

Year 1 (RFA status) - 4.5 million
Year 2 (RFA status) - 4.5 million
Year 3 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
Year 4 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
year 5 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
Year 6 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
Year 7 (UFA status) - 5.5 million

So we would lock Zach Bogosian up through the ages of 23-30. Leaving both sides open for another solid deal, or Zach could sign elsewhere and still be in a position to land a really good last contract as he will be 29 turning 30 when this 7 year deal expires.

Also, by going 7 years, it staggers the contracts of our core. You don't want them all UFA at once, and with the staggering effect it can work nicely as if you're doing well as a team, these guys may want to stay since the others are already here. And we already know how well this core group enjoys being together as we've heard all of Little, Wheeler and Bogosian have been in communication over their negotiations. It can be a positive domino effect when it comes to re-signing these players. Chevy has set this up so Ladd and Byfuglien are UFA in 2017, Pavelec in 2018, Kane, Little and Enstrom in 2019, Wheeler in 2020. So I think Bogosian's contract runs to 2020 with Wheeler. I can't see it being a 6 year deal and expiring in 2019 with all of Kane, Little and Enstrom that summer, and I don't see us going to only 5 years to just 2018. I think 5 years is too short, 6 years falls under a big UFA year for the team, 7 years may be ideal for both the team and player.


Either i'm reading this wrong or your math's odd.

kane, enstrom and little end the offseason following the 17-18 (ufa, july 1st 2018), pavelec's up the year prior, etc etc.


Wheeler signed a 6 year contract this off-season... meaning he's a free agent the off season following the 18-19 season (july 1st 2018)

Wouldn't zach need to sign a 6 year deal as well to end up a UFA the same time as wheeler? (wheeler = 13 + 6 = 20 , Bogo = 13 + 7 = 20.....)
 

Zhamnov10

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Jul 17, 2011
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My guess is that we sign him for 8 years around 5.5 million cap hit
4.5,4.75,5,5.5,5.5,6,6,6
 
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ps241

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If we are buying 3 UFA years ( 5 year deal) we should be able to get close to McDonagh (who sold off 3 UFA years I believe) but if this is long term then buckle up. If we are buying 6 UFA years of Bogosian ask yourself what would he fetch in the open UFA market 2 seasons from now when he is 25 years old and just beginning his prime? If the cap goes up and he stays healthy what would hommer pay for him even if he doesn't improve much (and lord help us if he improves)? As an agent unless the offer was really rich I would advise Zach to go to arbitration and take a 2 year deal now and then wait for some desperate GM to back up the brinks truck. This is the trickiest of the 3 negotiations this summer because Zach is a less finished product than the other two and the term of his contract could be 8 years and that is a bit crazy as far as how to value those later years. I hate to say it but it might make more sense for both parties to do a 6 year deal.

This is part of the price you pay when you put your 18 year olds into the NHL.
 

Huffer

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Jul 16, 2010
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Enstrom's Resume was superior at the time of signing as well all the years purchased in his contract were UFA years. Bogo will have 2 RFA years on his next contract.

And Enstrom was signed when the cap was higher as well was it not?
 

Guerzy

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Jan 16, 2005
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Either i'm reading this wrong or your math's odd.

kane, enstrom and little end the offseason following the 17-18 (ufa, july 1st 2018), pavelec's up the year prior, etc etc.


Wheeler signed a 6 year contract this off-season... meaning he's a free agent the off season following the 18-19 season (july 1st 2018)

Wouldn't zach need to sign a 6 year deal as well to end up a UFA the same time as wheeler? (wheeler = 13 + 6 = 20 , Bogo = 13 + 7 = 20.....)

Thanks, I fixed it. That's what I get for doing company inventory control and writing on HF at the same time. :laugh:
 

ps241

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I look at the McDonagh Deal and really wonder how Zach could make more and I almost feel we should try to mirror that deal and give up the dream of the 8 years and stick to 6 and then extend Zack along the way for the big dollars if and when he has earns it.

McDonagh's contract is

2013-14 $4.0
2014-15 $4.3
2015-16 $4.5
2016-17 $5.0
2017-18 $5.1
2018-19 $5.3

AAV $4.7

If we end up at $5.5 AAV or north of that to get the 8 years done I think we will have missed an opportunity.
 

truck

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I look at the McDonagh Deal and really wonder how Zach could make more and I almost feel we should try to mirror that deal and give up the dream of the 8 years and stick to 6 and then extend Zack along the way for the big dollars if and when he has earns it.

McDonagh's contract is

2013-14 $4.0
2014-15 $4.3
2015-16 $4.5
2016-17 $5.0
2017-18 $5.1
2018-19 $5.3

AAV $4.7

If we end up at $5.5 AAV or north of that to get the 8 years done I think we will have missed an opportunity.

I agree.

If somebody can tell me what he has done to out-earn McDonagh, I'd be glad to hear it.
 

scelaton

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Jul 5, 2012
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If we are buying 3 UFA years ( 5 year deal) we should be able to get close to McDonagh (who sold off 3 UFA years I believe) but if this is long term then buckle up. If we are buying 6 UFA years of Bogosian ask yourself what would he fetch in the open UFA market 2 seasons from now when he is 25 years old and just beginning his prime? If the cap goes up and he stays healthy what would hommer pay for him even if he doesn't improve much (and lord help us if he improves)? As an agent unless the offer was really rich I would advise Zach to go to arbitration and take a 2 year deal now and then wait for some desperate GM to back up the brinks truck. This is the trickiest of the 3 negotiations this summer because Zach is a less finished product than the other two and the term of his contract could be 8 years and that is a bit crazy as far as how to value those later years. I hate to say it but it might make more sense for both parties to do a 6 year deal.

This is part of the price you pay when you put your 18 year olds into the NHL.

We are absolutely missing the big picture, ps. Let me expand on the reasons why a seemingly expensive 8 year deal might make economic sense in Bogo's case. My assumption in these scenarios is that salary inflation in the NHL will be 6% over the life of the current CBA,, which is a very conservative guesstimate, given past history.

Scenario 1)Bogo goes to arbitration and is granted a 2 year deal at 4.75 and 5 million (4.75X1.06) respectively. Even if his talent level does not improve at all and he signs a series of UFA contracts giving him 6% annual increases, his salary in year 8 will be >7 million and his total salary over 8 years will be ~ 47 million. This is the second worst possible scenario for him, salary-wise (the first being a career limiting injury).

Scenario 2) Bogo gets an arbitration award as above, plays to his potential and is therefore granted a Doughty-like contract for 6 years. In 2015 inflation adjusted dollars, 7 mill will actually be 7.86 mill, giving him a total 8 year salary of ~57 million.

In both of the above scenarios, Bogo's year-8 salary will likely be > 7 million, unless he is injured or his performance declines markedly.

The point I have been trying to make ad nauseum is that salary inflation in the NHL is real and can be obviated by signing certain players to long term deals, which may seem expensive on the surface but are huge money savers in the final years. The ideal player to sign is young enough to still be in his prime in the final year and has the potential to grow into a great player. If they are already great, it's too late for the team to score a great contract. Bogo fits both these criteria.

Both of the above scenarios project costs well above an 8-year deal at 5.5 mill, which is what I am hoping for. Even a status quo Bogo will be a reasonable deal over 8 years, unless he is a broken man. A star Bogo, in an 8 year contract at 44 mill is a deal that even the cheapest Winnipegger will be proud of.
 

sipowicz

The thrill is gone
Mar 16, 2011
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I really like Bogo who is the total package, but I did notice a small bump in his progress last season, a slight dip from his stellar play in the 11-12 season. Hope last season wasn't an aberration or stalling in his development. He is not quite at top dollars yet.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Winnipeg
We are absolutely missing the big picture, ps. Let me expand on the reasons why a seemingly expensive 8 year deal might make economic sense in Bogo's case. My assumption in these scenarios is that salary inflation in the NHL will be 6% over the life of the current CBA,, which is a very conservative guesstimate, given past history.

Scenario 1)Bogo goes to arbitration and is granted a 2 year deal at 4.75 and 5 million (4.75X1.06) respectively. Even if his talent level does not improve at all and he signs a series of UFA contracts giving him 6% annual increases, his salary in year 8 will be >7 million and his total salary over 8 years will be ~ 47 million. This is the second worst possible scenario for him, salary-wise (the first being a career limiting injury).

Scenario 2) Bogo gets an arbitration award as above, plays to his potential and is therefore granted a Doughty-like contract for 6 years. In 2015 inflation adjusted dollars, 7 mill will actually be 7.86 mill, giving him a total 8 year salary of ~57 million.

In both of the above scenarios, Bogo's year-8 salary will likely be > 7 million, unless he is injured or his performance declines markedly.

The point I have been trying to make ad nauseum is that salary inflation in the NHL is real and can be obviated by signing certain players to long term deals, which may seem expensive on the surface but are huge money savers in the final years. The ideal player to sign is young enough to still be in his prime in the final year and has the potential to grow into a great player. If they are already great, it's too late for the team to score a great contract. Bogo fits both these criteria.

Both of the above scenarios project costs well above an 8-year deal at 5.5 mill, which is what I am hoping for. Even a status quo Bogo will be a reasonable deal over 8 years, unless he is a broken man. A star Bogo, in an 8 year contract at 44 mill is a deal that even the cheapest Winnipegger will be proud of.

The Jets get to choose the term and as such would elect a one year deal which would leave him in team control next year if it came to arbitration.

Do you not think that the agents for every dmen that signed this summer didn't take salary inflation into account? So I guess Bogosians agent is smarter than all those other agents or the more likely scenario is that Bogosian's agent has an unsubstantiated view of his clients value given the current market for similar players.
 
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Huffer

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
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I look at the McDonagh Deal and really wonder how Zach could make more and I almost feel we should try to mirror that deal and give up the dream of the 8 years and stick to 6 and then extend Zack along the way for the big dollars if and when he has earns it.

McDonagh's contract is

2013-14 $4.0
2014-15 $4.3
2015-16 $4.5
2016-17 $5.0
2017-18 $5.1
2018-19 $5.3

AAV $4.7

If we end up at $5.5 AAV or north of that to get the 8 years done I think we will have missed an opportunity.

The idea of paying a huge premiem over McDonagh worries me as well. How about taking McDonnagh's deal and adding two more years at the end at 5.5?

Becomes 8 years and 39.2 million. 4.9 average. (or just add a little here and there to get it to 5.0)

That's close to Guerzy's too, so I wouldn't be upset with that either. Having to get close to an AAV of 6 to get him long term doesn't sound too good though.
 

YWGinYYZ

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Jul 3, 2011
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Another way to look at it: Cap hit %'s based on projected Salary Cap. Here are some percentages projected out to 2020-21, using numbers that have been guessed at by media outlets such as The Globe

Season|Salary cap|$5M|$5.5M|$6M
2013-14|$64.30|7.78%|8.55%|9.33%
2014-15|$64.30|7.78%|8.55%|9.33%
2015-16|$66.10|7.56%|8.32%|9.08%
2016-17|$69.50|7.19%|7.91%|8.63%
2017-18|$73.10|6.84%|7.52%|8.21%
2018-19|$76.90|6.50%|7.15%|7.80%
2019-20|$80.90|6.18%|6.80%|7.42%
2020-21|$85.10|5.88%|6.46%|7.05%

Even if Bogo were to sign for $6M (which I would not be overly happy with, trust me), the %'age of the overall cap in a few years isn't crushing.
 

Guerzy

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Jan 16, 2005
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I look at the McDonagh Deal and really wonder how Zach could make more and I almost feel we should try to mirror that deal and give up the dream of the 8 years and stick to 6 and then extend Zack along the way for the big dollars if and when he has earns it.

McDonagh's contract is

2013-14 $4.0
2014-15 $4.3
2015-16 $4.5
2016-17 $5.0
2017-18 $5.1
2018-19 $5.3

AAV $4.7

If we end up at $5.5 AAV or north of that to get the 8 years done I think we will have missed an opportunity.


I agree.

If somebody can tell me what he has done to out-earn McDonagh, I'd be glad to hear it.

The idea of paying a huge premiem over McDonagh worries me as well. How about taking McDonnagh's deal and adding two more years at the end at 5.5?

Becomes 8 years and 39.2 million. 4.9 average. (or just add a little here and there to get it to 5.0)

That's close to Guerzy's too, so I wouldn't be upset with that either. Having to get close to an AAV of 6 to get him long term doesn't sound too good though.


This would be very ideal, in my opinion, and fair. My hunch is Bogosian's AAV will be around 5.2 million per season. Ya, 500k more than McDonagh in terms of AAV, I don't know why, it's just my hunch. :laugh:
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
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Truthfully, I think my hunch of an AAV closing in on 5.2 stems (fairly or unfairly) in basing this on how we use him, how we need him, how valuable he is, how valuable he could/likely will be based on what we see today as we head forward, and most notably what we're paying our other top pairing and relied upon defenseman in Byfuglien (5.2 AAV) and Enstrom (5.75). I think when it comes down to it Bogosian is just as important as those two even with a lesser offensive game/contributions.

Perhaps Bogosian and his agent could argue and bargain from a standpoint of comparables such as teammates in Byfuglien and Enstrom, how they're utilized, what their importance is, and what they offer to the team, etc. I think overall, Bogosian is more reliable defensively than Enstrom and Byfuglien, and he possesses the tools teams love to build their defensive anchors around in size, physicality, leadership, etc, while demonstrating a sound defensive game and solid and respectable offensive game. With that being said, Bogosian doesn't and hasn't proven to possess the offensive output and flair of either Byfuglien or Enstrom. Right now, today, I'd peg Bogosian as a 30-40 point defenseman offensively (doing so over a full season).

So, I think that is where my hunch of an AAV up to 5.2 is coming from. I think Zach may be paid between a Ryan McDonagh to how he is used/importance/comparison to others here in Winnipeg, being Byfuglien and Enstrom. Again, whether that is deemed by the critics fair or unfair. I do feel Bogosian will ring in at at least close to or at 5 million AAV, so ya, McDonagh is indeed a fair comparison for many reasons noted here by others. Especially when you factor in Bogosian doesn't have the offensive numbers as Byfuglien (5.2 AAV) and Enstrom (5.75 AAV), so 4.7 is certainly a good mark, to be honest. I'll say it though, I am indeed surprised McDonagh didn't/couldn't sign for at least an AAV of 5 million given his role in New York.

I could see Bogosian getting 5 million, perhaps no more, no less, right on the mark. Silly hunch. :p:

7 years, 35 million. AAV 5 million.

Year 1 (RFA) - 4.5
Year 2 (RFA) - 4.5
Year 3 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 4 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 5 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 6 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 7 (UFA) - 5.2

That is my final guess after tinkering here. Take it to the bank. We'll see how close or not, I am.
 
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scelaton

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Jul 5, 2012
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Do you not think that the agents for every dmen that signed this summer didn't take salary inflation into account? So I guess Bogosians agent is smarter than all those other agents or the more likely scenario is that Bogosian's agent has an unsubstantiated view of his clients value given the current market for similar players.

Not sure if I am misinterpreting the tone or intent of your response, but I will reply nonetheless.
Of course agents take salary inflation into account and Bogo's agent is simply doing his job by pushing for the best possible deal. The best agents back off on salary only in the final stages for the sake of their client's security and happiness with their situation.
IMO, it's always balance between security and maximum potential income. If you knew 100% that your player was going to be great, uninjured and didn't care where he played, you'd push for a shorter term and take advantage of salary inflation at the high end, over time. If you think he would rather have the security of a guaranteed pay check and a known organization for 8 years, even if it's not the best in the final years, you try to work out a long term deal. In Bogo's case, I suspect he will opt for the latter, given his behaviour toward the team and theirs toward him.
 

surixon

Registered User
Jul 12, 2003
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Winnipeg
Not sure if I am misinterpreting the tone or intent of your response, but I will reply nonetheless.
Of course agents take salary inflation into account and Bogo's agent is simply doing his job by pushing for the best possible deal. The best agents back off on salary only in the final stages for the sake of their client's security and happiness with their situation.
IMO, it's always balance between security and maximum potential income. If you knew 100% that your player was going to be great, uninjured and didn't care where he played, you'd push for a shorter term and take advantage of salary inflation at the high end, over time. If you think he would rather have the security of a guaranteed pay check and a known organization for 8 years, even if it's not the best in the final years, you try to work out a long term deal. In Bogo's case, I suspect he will opt for the latter, given his behaviour toward the team and theirs toward him.

I didn't mean to come across as mean! My point has been that similar defenseman to Bogosian have signed long term deals for substantially less than what Bogosian is apparently asking for (If Lawless is to be believed). i dont blame agents for pushing for the best deal possible but in this case it seems that Bogosians agent is overvaluing his client! What i was getting at is that those other agenta would have also been pushing for the best deal possible for their clients and all settled for fair deals. We should be expecting Bongo to sign for something similar given the market, not something that Norris trophy winner signed for!
 

Nothing Is New

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Sep 26, 2011
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Listening on Satellite radio the other evening driving home from work (they were rating GMs - Chevy 'C') they said that if he went to arbitration, Bogo would be gone in two years. Taking into consideration the Weber contract and what that other small market team had to pay to keep an elite defenseman, a long term contract contract for Bogo at $6M seems reasonable to me. All fine and well to speculate concerning what Los Angeles and New York pay for ballpark comparables, but once they are gone, they don't come back. You may have conserved cap space, but you likely won't get anyone from free agency as good or as young. We need to sign Bogo and lock him in long term - even at $6M. If he goes UFA in two, Bogo will get over $6M.
 

Huffer

Registered User
Jul 16, 2010
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Truthfully, I think my hunch of an AAV closing in on 5.2 stems (fairly or unfairly) in basing this on how we use him, how we need him, how valuable he is, how valuable he could/likely will be based on what we see today as we head forward, and most notably what we're paying our other top pairing and relied upon defenseman in Byfuglien (5.2 AAV) and Enstrom (5.75). I think when it comes down to it Bogosian is just as important as those two even with a lesser offensive game/contributions.

Perhaps Bogosian and his agent could argue and bargain from a standpoint of comparables such as teammates in Byfuglien and Enstrom, how they're utilized, what their importance is, and what they offer to the team, etc. I think overall, Bogosian is more reliable defensively than Enstrom and Byfuglien, and he possesses the tools teams love to build their defensive anchors around in size, physicality, leadership, etc, while demonstrating a sound defensive game and solid and respectable offensive game. With that being said, Bogosian doesn't and hasn't proven to possess the offensive output and flair of either Byfuglien or Enstrom. Right now, today, I'd peg Bogosian as a 30-40 point defenseman offensively (doing so over a full season).

So, I think that is where my hunch of an AAV up to 5.2 is coming from. I think Zach may be paid between a Ryan McDonagh to how he is used/importance/comparison to others here in Winnipeg, being Byfuglien and Enstrom. Again, whether that is deemed by the critics fair or unfair. I do feel Bogosian will ring in at at least close to or at 5 million AAV, so ya, McDonagh is indeed a fair comparison for many reasons noted here by others. Especially when you factor in Bogosian doesn't have the offensive numbers as Byfuglien (5.2 AAV) and Enstrom (5.75 AAV), so 4.7 is certainly a good mark, to be honest. I'll say it though, I am indeed surprised McDonagh didn't/couldn't sign for at least an AAV of 5 million given his role in New York.

I could see Bogosian getting 5 million, perhaps no more, no less, right on the mark. Silly hunch. :p:

7 years, 35 million. AAV 5 million.

Year 1 (RFA) - 4.5
Year 2 (RFA) - 4.5
Year 3 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 4 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 5 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 6 (UFA) - 5.2
Year 7 (UFA) - 5.2

That is my final guess after tinkering here. Take it to the bank. We'll see how close or not, I am.

Now that our guys are signed, can you do some analysis on Mortgage rates?

:sarcasm:

You nailed this one. (AAV, don't know the breakdown yet).
 

Guerzy

I'm a fricken baby
Jan 16, 2005
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Now that our guys are signed, can you do some analysis on Mortgage rates?

:sarcasm:

You nailed this one. (AAV, don't know the breakdown yet).

Well, I am not a big numbers guy with stats like garret but I do take care of the inventory control for my company. :laugh:

Love this signing. Love it.
 

pegjets

Oh Canada
Apr 4, 2013
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I was pretty close on Little. I estimated we'd have to pay him a minimum of 4.5, but in buying his UFA years we may have to push the envelope to 4.8 (similar to the Gagner deal), they settled on 4.7. I figured he'd get 4 years and he got 5. Had Little hit UFA next July, I figured a team would easily pony up 4.5-5 million per season for his services.

For Wheeler, I estimated 5 years and he got 6. Salary wise, I figured this season being his last as RFA status may have dipped on the cheaper side of the deal in actual dollars as Bryan Little did, but as far as buying his UFA years, that was coming at a price and I estimated 5.5 million through those UFA years, he got 5.6. Had Wheeler hit UFA next July, I figured a team would easily pony up 5.5-6 million per season for his services.


Not to toot my own horn :)p:), but I'll put my track record here on the line and estimate what I believe Bogosian will get.

Bogosian has 2 more seasons as RFA years/contractual status, so they'll come a little cheaper, in my opinion. But after that, the price tag will rise accordingly for a mid-twenties defenceman in his prime years, with the draft status Zach has (3rd overall) and being en route to fulfilling his potential in which we've seen and been very happy with over the last 2 years in Winnipeg. His injury history won't effect the price that much, in my opinion. Whether we pay Zach or not, another team will, he knows it and Chevy knows it.

Here is my estimated guess for Zach Bogosian.

7 years, 36.5 million. AAV of about = 5.2 million per season.

Year 1 (RFA status) - 4.5 million
Year 2 (RFA status) - 4.5 million
Year 3 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
Year 4 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
year 5 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
Year 6 (UFA status) - 5.5 million
Year 7 (UFA status) - 5.5 million

So we would lock Zach Bogosian up through the ages of 23-30. Leaving both sides open for another solid deal, or Zach could sign elsewhere and still be in a position to land a really good last contract as he will be 29 turning 30 when this 7 year deal expires.

Also, by going 7 years, it staggers the contracts of our core. You don't want them all UFA at once, and with the staggering effect it can work nicely as if you're doing well as a team, these guys may want to stay since the others are already here. And we already know how well this core group enjoys being together as we've heard all of Little, Wheeler and Bogosian have been in communication over their negotiations. It can be a positive domino effect when it comes to re-signing these players. Chevy has set this up so Ladd and Byfuglien are UFA in 2016, Pavelec in 2017, Kane, Little and Enstrom in 2018, Wheeler in 2019. So I think Bogosian's contract runs to at least 6 years bringing us to 2019 with Wheeler. I can't see it being a 5 year deal and expiring in 2018 with all of Kane, Little and Enstrom that summer, and it surely won't be a 4 year deal (too short). In summary, 4 years is too short, 5 years clashes with other big UFA's, 6 years fits with Wheeler, 7 years would bring Bogosian the year after Wheeler. 6-7 years would be ideal for both the team and player.

When you start doing lottery numbers, please PM me.
 

Jet

Free Capo!
Jul 20, 2004
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I guess the main thing we learned in this thread is that I am terrible at predicting contracts for players I love.

He's signed, so we can close er down.
 
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