Confirmed with Link: Zach Bogosian returns to Tampa Bay | 3 years, $850k AAV

BoltzManConstant

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I did not say Hedman needed Bogo to be "that good", nice strawman. The fact is Rutta hadn't played since January, Cooper isn't such an idiot to throw Rutta into the lineup unless Bogo was injured after one bad game.

Hedman was able to play a more aggressive game thanks to Bogosian being a more defensively responsible and mobile defender than Rutta, Schenn, or whatever other musical chair defender Cooper paired him with to that point. You could see the difference in Hedmans play immediately, and that extra gear offensively was enough to win the Smythe over Point. I've watched just about every game Hedman has played since entering the league and the last time he played like that 5v5 was when he had Stralman as a partner. Coincidence? Believe what you want, but I don't get the fascination of Rutta as the better choice except recency bias.

Let's see how the pairings turn out in camp, go ahead and bet on Rutta being Hedmans partner :laugh:

You said "I don’t think Hedman wins the Smythe without him." Either you think Hedman need Bogo to have that level of success, or you don't. Pick a lane. But I can tell you one is the expressway to crazytown.

There's a reason Cooper played Rutta over Bogo when Rutta got healthy. It's the same reason why we turned around and signed Rutta to $1.3m per yr for two years, while we watched Bogo walk to Toronto for a 1-year $1m prove-it deal. And I can assure you that reason ain't that Bogo is better than Rutta.

And after the one-year prove-it didn't work out, he walked and took another pay cut.

It's perfectly reasonable to be happy with the signing. We need cheap guys who are NHL-capable, especially on D, and Bogo isn't going to keep us from winning another Cup. But it's gonna get ugly in here if his slow ass is playing significant minutes every night.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
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You said "I don’t think Hedman wins the Smythe without him." Either you think Hedman need Bogo to have that level of success, or you don't. Pick a lane. But I can tell you one is the expressway to crazytown.

:eyeroll:

You sound like the kind of person who has trouble with nuance, but to be clear I was speaking specifically to that postseason because Hedman was playing babysitter to that point. It's hilarious that you think I was implying that Hedman can't play that well without Bogosian.

There's a reason Cooper played Rutta over Bogo when Rutta got healthy.

He didn't, Rutta was a healthy scratch until ZB got hurt against Dallas

It's the same reason why we turned around and signed Rutta to $1.3m per yr for two years, while we watched Bogo walk to Toronto for a 1-year $1m prove-it deal. And I can assure you that reason ain't that Bogo is better than Rutta.

We attempted to sign ZB but he chose Toronto on the 1st day, not the other way around. Rutta was such a highly sought after free agent that he went unsigned for months until we offered him a deal on the cusp of training camp. He was a real priority :eyeroll:

And after the one-year prove-it didn't work out, he walked and took another pay cut.

Toronto offered him more money to return, but lets act like he was failure and was forced out for less

It's perfectly reasonable to be happy with the signing. We need cheap guys who are NHL-capable, especially on D, and Bogo isn't going to keep us from winning another Cup. But it's gonna get ugly in here if his slow ass is playing significant minutes every night.

You think Bogosian is slow? Okay :laugh:
 
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Stammertime91

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:eyeroll:

You sound like the kind of person who has trouble with nuance, but to be clear I was speaking specifically to that postseason because Hedman was playing babysitter to that point. It's hilarious that you think I was implying that Hedman can't play that well without Bogosian.



He didn't, Rutta was a healthy scratch until ZB got hurt against Dallas



We attempted to sign ZB but he chose Toronto on the 1st day, not the other way around. Rutta was such a highly sought after free agent that he went unsigned for months until we offered him a deal on the cusp of training camp. He was a real priority :eyeroll:



Toronto offered him more money to return, but lets act like he was failure and was forced out for less



You think Bogosian is slow? Okay :laugh:


Seriously. Can't believe what I'm reading. He's not the fastest but he's not slow... he absolutely held it down against Columbus and had a memorable dog walk of an assist to a diving Coleman goal. He's basically another Rutta. Able to log heavy minutes, he actually has a heavier shot and can play physical though unlike Rutta. The one thing that surprised me is how well positioned he was next to Hedman. He was not out of his element and contributed to that cup run. The idea that he's some liability as a consistent 6th d in comparison to someone who is ACTUALLY slow in Foote is a f***ing reach and a half.

For clarification.... I'm agreeing with you...
 
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BoltzManConstant

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:eyeroll:

You sound like the kind of person who has trouble with nuance, but to be clear I was speaking specifically to that postseason because Hedman was playing babysitter to that point. It's hilarious that you think I was implying that Hedman can't play that well without Bogosian.



He didn't, Rutta was a healthy scratch until ZB got hurt against Dallas



We attempted to sign ZB but he chose Toronto on the 1st day, not the other way around. Rutta was such a highly sought after free agent that he went unsigned for months until we offered him a deal on the cusp of training camp. He was a real priority :eyeroll:



Toronto offered him more money to return, but lets act like he was failure and was forced out for less



You think Bogosian is slow? Okay :laugh:

Oh, I understand nuance. The nuance here is that you want to say that Hedman wouldn't have won the Smythe without Bogosian, then backpedal rapidly when called on it. Hella nuance.

Love your narrative on how Zach _succeeded_ his way into an $850k contract with Tampa while the inferior Rutta is taking home $1.3m. Remind me to shoot myself in the head if I ever decide to hire Bogo's agent.

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this where it is for now. Will check back in to see all the praise (or perhaps something a little more septic) showered on Bogo if Cooper ends up forced to give him Hedman minutes every night.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
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Oh, I understand nuance. The nuance here is that you want to say that Hedman wouldn't have won the Smythe without Bogosian, then backpedal rapidly when called on it. Hella nuance.

Love your narrative on how Zach _succeeded_ his way into an $850k contract with Tampa while the inferior Rutta is taking home $1.3m. Remind me to shoot myself in the head if I ever decide to hire Bogo's agent.

Anyway, I'm gonna leave this where it is for now. Will check back in to see all the praise (or perhaps something a little more septic) showered on Bogo if Cooper ends up forced to give him Hedman minutes every night.

Me clarifying what should have been an obvious point a day after you misinterpreted it is a big time backpedal :eyeroll:

I gotta admit it’s difficult to lose an argument when you can just be obtuse and ignore the context and narrative of the other person
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
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Seriously. Can't believe what I'm reading. He's not the fastest but he's not slow... he absolutely held it down against Columbus and had a memorable dog walk of an assist to a diving Coleman goal. He's basically another Rutta. Able to log heavy minutes, he actually has a heavier shot and can play physical though unlike Rutta. The one thing that surprised me is how well positioned he was next to Hedman. He was not out of his element and contributed to that cup run. The idea that he's some liability as a consistent 6th d in comparison to someone who is ACTUALLY slow in Foote is a f***ing reach and a half.

For clarification.... I'm agreeing with you...

:thumbu:
 

BoltzManConstant

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Me clarifying what should have been an obvious point a day after you misinterpreted it is a big time backpedal :eyeroll:

I gotta admit it’s difficult to lose an argument when you can just be obtuse and ignore the context and narrative of the other person

Christ dude, you said it. Did you mean it or no? Are you saying that if we hadn't picked up Bogosian, Hedman wouldn't have won the Smythe? Or are you not saying it?

If you're gonna drop that position, then bully for you. Because it's dumb.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
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Christ dude, you said it. Did you mean it or no? Are you saying that if we hadn't picked up Bogosian, Hedman wouldn't have won the Smythe? Or are you not saying it?

If you're gonna drop that position, then bully for you. Because it's dumb.

That is exactly what I said, Bogo enabled Hedman because he wasn't playing with Rutta or Schenn. I think Point beats him if he's playing with one of those two. You inferred earlier that I was saying he won exclusively because of Bogosian, when I wasn't.

I'll argue the former if you disagree, but I won't continue nonsensical back and forth over the intended meaning of my words after it's been clarified for you.
 

BoltzManConstant

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That is exactly what I said, Bogo enabled Hedman because he wasn't playing with Rutta or Schenn. I think Point beats him if he's playing with one of those two. You inferred earlier that I was saying he won exclusively because of Bogosian, when I wasn't.

I'll argue the former if you disagree, but I won't continue nonsensical back and forth over the intended meaning of my words after it's been clarified for you.

Yeah, I don't know what you're going for here. I've characterized your argument the same way every time.

Zach Bogosian is a Schenn-level talent who was a healthy scratch in 4 of our 6 Stanley Cup Finals games the year Hedman won the Smythe.

Hedman got 15 points in the 18 games that Bogo actually played in that playoff run, and 6 points in the 4 games where Bogosian was scratched. On the nights Bogo played, Heddy was +17, yet somehow Bogosian was only +2 -- Hedman was on the ice for a lot of even strength scoring, but Bogo wasn't there. And of course Bogo wasn't on the ice for any of Hedman's PP success either.

Bogosian averaged 17.5 minutes in the games he played (16 minutes if you take out the 5 OT game) to Hedman's 28 minutes in the same set of games (26.5 ignoring the 5 OT game).

All these stats shouldn't be necessary -- it should be blindingly obvious to anyone who remembers the games -- but it's just silly to say that Hedman wouldn't have won the Conn Smythe if we hadn't picked up Zach Bogosian. But you seem to have concocted some fantasy about what Bogo was able to do for Heddy on the ice. Why or how you came up with this, I have no idea.
 

Rschmitz

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Zach Bogosian is a Schenn-level talent who was a healthy scratch in 4 of our 6 Stanley Cup Finals games the year Hedman won the Smythe.

This again. Rutta was actually the one who was a healthy scratch for weeks until Bogo was hurt against Dallas with an "undisclosed" injury. Cooper even said that he didn't want to insert Rutta back into the lineup because of how well the team was playing without him, i.e. Bogosian was doing such a good job.

Hedman got 15 points in the 18 games that Bogo actually played in that playoff run, and 6 points in the 4 games where Bogosian was scratched. On the nights Bogo played, Heddy was +17, yet somehow Bogosian was only +2 -- Hedman was on the ice for a lot of even strength scoring, but Bogo wasn't there. And of course Bogo wasn't on the ice for any of Hedman's PP success either.

The nights that Bogosian played, Hedman was +17; and on the nights that he did not play, he was -4. This should trump your other stats, but I'll bite. If you watch the games, you should know that our defensemen are deployed differently depending on the situation. Hedman had so many more points, minutes, and +/- than Bogosian because Bogo took mostly defensive zone draws and was used in a shutdown role. Sergachev and Shattenkirk were many times rotated in on offensive opportunities.

Bogosian averaged 17.5 minutes in the games he played (16 minutes if you take out the 5 OT game) to Hedman's 28 minutes in the same set of games (26.5 ignoring the 5 OT game).

Right, Hedman is a beast and used in all situations. Was there another point to the TOI differential?

All these stats shouldn't be necessary -- it should be blindingly obvious to anyone who remembers the games -- but it's just silly to say that Hedman wouldn't have won the Conn Smythe if we hadn't picked up Zach Bogosian. But you seem to have concocted some fantasy about what Bogo was able to do for Heddy on the ice. Why or how you came up with this, I have no idea.

Instead of blindingly obvious, I think you would just be blind if you couldn't see Bogosian's positive impact for the team and how he freed up our offensive minded defensemen to be more aggressive.
 
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Stammertime91

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This again. Rutta was actually the one who was a healthy scratch for weeks until Bogo was hurt against Dallas with an "undisclosed" injury. Cooper even said that he didn't want to insert Rutta back into the lineup because of how well the team was playing without him, i.e. Bogosian was doing such a good job.



The nights that Bogosian played, Hedman was +17; and on the nights that he did not play, he was -4. This should trump your other stats, but I'll bite. If you watch the games, you should know that our defensemen are deployed differently depending on the situation. Hedman had so many more points, minutes, and +/- than Bogosian because Bogo took mostly defensive zone draws and was used in a shutdown role. Sergachev and Shattenkirk were many times rotated in on offensive opportunities.



Right, Hedman is a beast and used in all situations. Was there another point to the TOI differential?



Instead of blindingly obvious, I think you would just be blind if you couldn't see Bogosian's positive impact for the team and how he freed up our offensive minded defensemen to be more aggressive.
Loved the +/- utilization there. A real slam dunk lmao.
 

Rschmitz

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Loved the +/- utilization there. A real slam dunk lmao.

I have my doubts that everybody will see it that way
smiles.gif
 

DaBolts

Stanley Cup Boat Parades ROCK
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Before I take my summer holiday, everyone chill.

Bogo just wants a piece of the Bud Light contracts.

He's perfect for it.

As is Hedman.
 

CupsOverCash

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
16,353
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Before I take my summer holiday, everyone chill.

Bogo just wants a piece of the Bud Light contracts.

He's perfect for it.

As is Hedman.

Well gotta win the cup and have them roll off some classics in the post game presser...
 

BoltzManConstant

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Loved the +/- utilization there. A real slam dunk lmao.

I already provided their +/-. Rschmitz has the implications exactly backwards.

Hedman was +17 in the games Bogo played, while Bogo was only +2. That right there tells you that Rschmitz's claims are straight garbage. There's no way this purported Bogo/Hedman pair was freeing Heddy up to score -- if it was, it would show up in Bogo's +/- too.

Whenever they're on the ice together, their +/- is identical -- it has to be, that's just how the stat works. That means that in all the time they _weren't_ on the ice together, which was the majority of Hedman's playing time, Hedman was 15 points better than Bogo -- and that's ignoring power play scoring (which isn't included in +/-). So that means that either Hedman broke out when he wasn't paired with Bogo (e.g. he was +15 without Bogo and only +2 when paired with Bogo) OR Bogo was a f***ing turnstile without Hedman (e.g. Bogo was -15 when Heddy was sitting). Or somwhere in between those extremes.

There's just no way Hedman spent a lot of time with Bogo, and scored when they were together. That's not how it played out if you watched the games, and it's basically impossible if you look at that +/- differential. What really happened is we played a lot of 7D that postseason, and we really mixed shit up, Hedman and Bogo weren't a fixed pair, we were just making do with Bogo and Schenn as our 6th and 7th D most nights. Not sure if splits are available by player and partner, but just go back and watch the games. When they did play together, Hedman definitely had more success without Bogosian than he did with him (that's not just true for Hedman, it's true for the whole team).

And again, that's just when Bogo actually played. When Bogo was out of the lineup, Hedman went for 1.5 points per game. When Bogo played, Hedman was only at 0.833 ppg.

And the Rutta assertion is silly. Rutta was coming back from injury; he was cleared to play but wasn't really healthy at any point that postseason. We went to 7 D so often because we were covering for Rutta's absence Bogosian and Schenn. And no, we weren't playing Luke Schenn (and sitting a healthy Rutta) because Schenn is better (Schenn is definitely not better), we were playing Luke Schenn (and Bogo) and sitting a Rutta who wasn't 100%. We had to make do. Then after we got worked in game 1 against Dallas, we scratched Bogo and Schenn and pushed Rutta into the lineup. Rutta came through and then Bogo sat for four of the final five games.

And again, clearly the team saw the same thing as me and most everyone else when comparing Rutta and Bogosian. They signed Rutta for 2x$1.3m, while letting Bogo walk to Toronto on a 1x$1m prove-it deal.
 

BoltzManConstant

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Ah, lovely, I found the stats I was looking for: Victor Hedman - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Heddy had 22 postseason points in 2019-20, the year we had Bogosian and Hedman won the Smythe. He got 12 of his point at ES and 10 on the power play.

Here are Hedman's even strength point totals, split by pairing:
PTS%TotalLine Combination
433.3HEDMAN,VICTOR - SHATTENKIRK,KEVIN
216.7HEDMAN,VICTOR - BOGOSIAN,ZACH
216.7HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
216.7HEDMAN,VICTOR - SCHENN,LUKE
18.3HEDMAN,VICTOR - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
18.3HEDMAN,VICTOR - CERNAK,ERIK
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And power play point totals, split by what other defenders were on the ice:
PTS%TotalLine Combination
770HEDMAN,VICTOR
220HEDMAN,VICTOR - SHATTENKIRK,KEVIN
110NO LINEMATES
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And just for completeness, here is how Heddy spent his even strength shifts, by pairing:
FreqLine Combination
30.8%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SHATTENKIRK,KEVIN
27.5%HEDMAN,VICTOR - BOGOSIAN,ZACH
13.2%HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
9.2%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SCHENN,LUKE
8.8%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
7.3%HEDMAN,VICTOR - CERNAK,ERIK
2.4%HEDMAN,VICTOR - MCDONAGH,RYAN
0.6%HEDMAN,VICTOR
0.1%HEDMAN,VICTOR - CERNAK,ERIK - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
0%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SCHENN,LUKE - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So to summarize: In five games where Rutta played, Hedman scored 2 ES points with Rutta on the ice. In Bogo's twenty games, Hedman scored the same -- 2 ES points -- with Bogo on the ice. Hell, Schenn only played 11 games, and how much ES scoring did Heddy do with Schenn on the ice? Yep, another 2 goddamned points.

Hedman was actually at his LEAST productive when paired with Bogosian, on a per-minute basis. Worse than with Cernak. Worse than with Luke f***ing Schenn. Worse than with every other defender we've got.

Rschmitz, I don't know what fever dream you have mistaken for reality, but this idea that having Bogo on the ice allowed Hedman to go wild on offense is just the purest horseshit.

(Note that all the above includes the 3 prelim games and treats them as if they were playoff games, but that hardly matters. Rutta played in the first prelim game, and Bogo in the other two. Hedman only had one point, a PP assist, during the prelim games.)
 
Last edited:

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
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Ah, lovely, I found the stats I was looking for: Victor Hedman - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools

Heddy had 22 postseason points in 2019-20, the year we had Bogosian and Hedman won the Smythe. He got 12 of his point at ES and 10 on the power play.

Here are Hedman's even strength point totals, split by pairing:
PTS%TotalLine Combination
433.3HEDMAN,VICTOR - SHATTENKIRK,KEVIN
216.7HEDMAN,VICTOR - BOGOSIAN,ZACH
216.7HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
216.7HEDMAN,VICTOR - SCHENN,LUKE
18.3HEDMAN,VICTOR - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
18.3HEDMAN,VICTOR - CERNAK,ERIK
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And power play point totals, split by what other defenders were on the ice:
PTS%TotalLine Combination
770HEDMAN,VICTOR
220HEDMAN,VICTOR - SHATTENKIRK,KEVIN
110NO LINEMATES
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
And just for completeness, here is how Heddy spent his even strength shifts, by pairing:
FreqLine Combination
30.8%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SHATTENKIRK,KEVIN
27.5%HEDMAN,VICTOR - BOGOSIAN,ZACH
13.2%HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
9.2%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SCHENN,LUKE
8.8%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
7.3%HEDMAN,VICTOR - CERNAK,ERIK
2.4%HEDMAN,VICTOR - MCDONAGH,RYAN
0.6%HEDMAN,VICTOR
0.1%HEDMAN,VICTOR - CERNAK,ERIK - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
0%HEDMAN,VICTOR - SCHENN,LUKE - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So to summarize: In five games where Rutta played, Hedman scored 2 ES points with Rutta on the ice. In Bogo's twenty games, Hedman scored the same -- 2 ES points -- with Bogo on the ice. Hell, Schenn only played 11 games, and how much ES scoring did Heddy do with Schenn on the ice? Yep, another 2 goddamned points.

Hedman was actually at his LEAST productive when paired with Bogosian, on a per-minute basis. Worse than with Cernak. Worse than with Luke f***ing Schenn. Worse than with every other defender we've got.

Rschmitz, I don't know what fever dream you have mistaken for reality, but this idea that having Bogo on the ice allowed Hedman to go wild on offense is just the purest horseshit.

(Note that all the above includes the 3 prelim games and treats them as if they were playoff games, but that hardly matters. Rutta played in the first prelim game, and Bogo in the other two. Hedman only had one point, a PP assist, during the prelim games.)

First off, please relax. Now try and follow

Here is Rutta's parse

FreqLine Combination
87.6HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
7.2MCDONAGH,RYAN - RUTTA,JAN
4.7RUTTA,JAN - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
0.3CERNAK,ERIK - HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
0.3CERNAK,ERIK - MCDONAGH,RYAN - RUTTA,JAN
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Here is Bogosian's parse

FreqLine Combination
45.7BOGOSIAN,ZACH - HEDMAN,VICTOR
36.7BOGOSIAN,ZACH - MCDONAGH,RYAN
10BOGOSIAN,ZACH - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]


Notice how Rutta played almost the entire game with Hedman, and notice how Bogosian split his minutes?

Bogosian played almost exclusively as a shutdown defenseman with Hedman or McDonagh. He had primarily dzone starts against the other teams top lines, and on offensive zone draws he was rotated out for Shattenkirk or Sergachev. You are continuing to go on and on and on about how Bogosian's point totals and his +/- is so much lower than Hedman's, so I guess that means that obviously Bogosian is a drag on Hedman right? You completely throw out the context. He received some of the toughest matchups each game, and when the team was in a favorable position to score he was on the bench.

So, how did Bogosian help Hedman win the Smythe if he didn't contribute offensively? Easy, instead of the 2 points Hedman scored with Rutta or 2 points with Schenn, he was allowed to play with Shattenkirk and Sergachev. Instead of having to babysit Rutta for the entire game, he had a competent partner defensively and was given a capable offensive partner when on the attack.

This is why Hedman's +17 while playing with Bogosian and -4 without is more important than the point totals and +/- differential you continue to persistently mention.
 

Rschmitz

Finding new ways to cheat
Feb 27, 2002
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No. One guy is arguing that Hedman wouldn't have won the Smythe without Bogosian, because otherwise he would've had to play with Rutta or Schenn, which is dumb as f***.

You don't have to get all worked up about an unprovable opinion. That was an incredibly tight competition for Smythe, I think Bogosian helped him just enough to win. You are feigning outrage as if I am saying Hedman would no longer be an amazing defenseman.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
34,123
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Meh on the advanced stats. Pair it however you want

Left side

Hedman
McDonagh
Sergachev

Right side

--------------
Cernak
Rutta
Bogosian
Foote



Honest to God folks. All we need is for Bogosian to be as effective as Savard was. He got much better as the playoffs went on but as a whole for his time here in Tampa, that's not a hell of a high bar for Bogosian to climb. The threepeat is officially on if the most notable additions to our offense in Katchouk, Raddysh, ABB, Perry, and PEB are going to be up to the task of providing secondary scoring to our top 2 lines that remain entirely intact post expansion draft along with Colton.


Also

@DFC you son of a bitch!

13825cb8e3e67198645cc7b708ae14cf.jpg



I guess the front office had the same plans you did. Well done amigo
 

BoltzManConstant

Registered User
Mar 8, 2017
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872
Upper West Side
First off, please relax. Now try and follow

Here is Rutta's parse

FreqLine Combination
87.6HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
7.2MCDONAGH,RYAN - RUTTA,JAN
4.7RUTTA,JAN - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
0.3CERNAK,ERIK - HEDMAN,VICTOR - RUTTA,JAN
0.3CERNAK,ERIK - MCDONAGH,RYAN - RUTTA,JAN
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Here is Bogosian's parse

FreqLine Combination
45.7BOGOSIAN,ZACH - HEDMAN,VICTOR
36.7BOGOSIAN,ZACH - MCDONAGH,RYAN
10BOGOSIAN,ZACH - SERGACHEV,MIKHAIL
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Notice how Rutta played almost the entire game with Hedman, and notice how Bogosian split his minutes?

Bogosian played almost exclusively as a shutdown defenseman with Hedman or McDonagh. He had primarily dzone starts against the other teams top lines, and on offensive zone draws he was rotated out for Shattenkirk or Sergachev. You are continuing to go on and on and on about how Bogosian's point totals and his +/- is so much lower than Hedman's, so I guess that means that obviously Bogosian is a drag on Hedman right? You completely throw out the context. He received some of the toughest matchups each game, and when the team was in a favorable position to score he was on the bench.

So, how did Bogosian help Hedman win the Smythe if he didn't contribute offensively? Easy, instead of the 2 points Hedman scored with Rutta or 2 points with Schenn, he was allowed to play with Shattenkirk and Sergachev. Instead of having to babysit Rutta for the entire game, he had a competent partner defensively and was given a capable offensive partner when on the attack.

This is why Hedman's +17 while playing with Bogosian and -4 without is more important than the point totals and +/- differential you continue to persistently mention.

Dude, get over it. The numbers are clear.

You claimed that having Bogo opened up Hedman to play an offensive game and win the Smythe. It couldn't be more clear that that wasn't the case.

- Hedman got stuck with Bogo for 28% of his even strength shifts. In that time, he scored two points.
- He was paired with Shatty 31% of his ES shifts and got 4 points. You're somehow giving Bogo credit for that number now, as your argument gets dumber and dumber, but whatever.
- And why do I say whatever? Because you know he actually did the best with? Who he was paired with for only 23% of his shifts, yet still scored 4 points? That's right, Rutta and Schenn. This new argument of yours that Bogo's presence liberated Hedman to go score with Shatty is really the dumbest yet. He got the same number of points, in fewer shifts, with Rutta and Schenn.
- And for completeness, his stats with Cernak and Serg were both 1 ES point in about 8% of his shifts. Not up to same standard he set with Rutta/Schenn.
- And again, when Bogo played, Hedman scored 0.866 PPG. When Bogo got healthy scratched, Hedman scored 1.5 PPG.

There is absolutely nothing, zero not a single shred of reality or slice of stats that says "Bogo enabled Hedman because he wasn't playing with Rutta or Schenn". It's just nuts. Hedman was a monster that whole postseason, including especially the games where we were healthy enough to scratch Bogo. Hedman was the same monster after we watched Bogo walk to Toronto, until Heddy himself got hurt.

(Separately, I haven't said a single word about Bogo's point totals. Not sure what you're going on about there. I've tried to make my posts as clear as possible -- but those comments now make me think you haven't been able to follow this conversation at all.)
 

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