Zac Rinaldo Suspended for 6 games

Neighborhood Coyote

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Sep 14, 2017
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When the team doesn't have players that match up against other team's lines well would you rather have a 4th line plug get destroyed or a prospect that we have high hopes for get his confidence destroyed by being dominated? It's easy to complain why players are getting ice time they don't deserve short term but the reality is we need to try to protect our top young assets in the hope they continue to grow. Even in this dismal season. Personally I would have went the Toronto route of signing vets to one year deals to hold the fort and trade them for assets every Feb but maybe they couldn't get the vets to sign??

Why does it have to be between those two choices? What about this other option not listed? Have our prospects confidence destroyed because 4th line players are playing above them and also getting destroyed. So they don't even get to play or learn AND they get embarrassed that they can't earn a spot over 4th liners that lose a bunch. They are humans so I can't imagine they are happy about that ya know? If a younger player plays a decent game, not great but decent... but gets scratched while a veteran played poorly but gets to keep playing without being scratched.. that's got to be frustrating. Some players maybe aren't bothered by it, but I am sure some might be.

Tocchet talks an awful lot about players getting reps but I don't see the benefit of giving guys like Archibald or Rinaldo or even Rieder a bunch of reps while limiting it for players who reallly need to grow. Because I agree with you that the goal is to grow these young players. But I really don't see how someone like Duclair can grow from the press box, or Perlini, etc. Especially when they have to watch what we have been watching this season. If the team were playing good hockey and winning hockey then I'd totally say they could learn from that. However, it's been bad and losing hockey. I think they would probably be better served playing PP minutes a bunch and good offensive zone starts with team mates that can help them play well. So they get minutes that are sheltered a bit but still put in a position they could succeed in. Just my opinion.

These players may not be ready to make a difference on the top nine yet. But our current top nine isn't setting the world on fire, either. The goal at this point in the season is about player growth and next season/beyond at this point. So, I guess that's what the debate is about. How does this team insure that the young guys it NEEDS to turn out well do so? Tocchet's job now is to find a way to put them into a good position to succeed.

Ps, I don't mind some players being in the AHL this year. BUT if one of those players is called up to play in the NHL, it does them no good to play 11 minutes a night with Cousins and whoever, imo.

HOWEVER: This is something I agree with you rt...our options have been limited. Stepan, Hammer, etc were supposed to be those vets brought in to help but that obviously hasn't gone well for this team. And that's probably the biggest problem of this team. Not that they are young, but that the vets that were supposed to provide stability and consistent effort haven't done so enough. Which, in turn, limits the amount of minutes that could be considered "easy" for our younger players to take advantage of. The vets have realllly dropped the ball for this team and put the Yotes in a tough spot. If the vets perform well, it takes pressure off of the younger guys to carry the load and allows things to fall into place a bit easier. Ps, I also think Vrbata would have been a good signing for this team.
 

moosemeister

5,000 strong
Feb 15, 2010
9,686
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Vrbata would've been great for this reason. I was disappointed they didn't even try to sign him.

Yeah that was a questionable call. The guy has always loved being a Coyote, and he's always produced here. He's a fan favorite and has proven success regardless of coaching staff here. Blows my mind that we didn't give him one more year.
 
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rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
97,306
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A Rockwellian Pleasantville
Yeah that was a questionable call. The guy has always loved being a Coyote, and he's always produced here. He's a fan favorite and has proven success regardless of coaching staff here. Blows my mind that we didn't give him one more year.
Especially after deciding not to trade him for a 3rd as a favor to him last deadline. What the hell? Take the 3rd if you don't want him.
 
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cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,337
3,372
I think Chayka wanted to keep Verby this year but when Barroway took over, the house cleaning started. No Doan, Smith gone, Tip gone, Verby was the last of the old vet guard except for all world OEL. I think it was barroway more than chayka's call.
 
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AZviaNJ

“Sure as shit want to F*** Coyote fans.”
Mar 31, 2011
6,670
4,283
AZ
I always liked Vrby, but he wouldn't have made a difference. He's old and has scored as many goals as Nick Cousins this season. Would have taken (more) ice time from Duke, as well.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,337
3,372
Why does it have to be between those two choices? What about this other option not listed? Have our prospects confidence destroyed because 4th line players are playing above them and also getting destroyed. So they don't even get to play or learn AND they get embarrassed that they can't earn a spot over 4th liners that lose a bunch. They are humans so I can't imagine they are happy about that ya know? If a younger player plays a decent game, not great but decent... but gets scratched while a veteran played poorly but gets to keep playing without being scratched.. that's got to be frustrating. Some players maybe aren't bothered by it, but I am sure some might be.

Tocchet talks an awful lot about players getting reps but I don't see the benefit of giving guys like Archibald or Rinaldo or even Rieder a bunch of reps while limiting it for players who reallly need to grow. Because I agree with you that the goal is to grow these young players. But I really don't see how someone like Duclair can grow from the press box, or Perlini, etc. Especially when they have to watch what we have been watching this season. If the team were playing good hockey and winning hockey then I'd totally say they could learn from that. However, it's been bad and losing hockey. I think they would probably be better served playing PP minutes a bunch and good offensive zone starts with team mates that can help them play well. So they get minutes that are sheltered a bit but still put in a position they could succeed in. Just my opinion.

These players may not be ready to make a difference on the top nine yet. But our current top nine isn't setting the world on fire, either. The goal at this point in the season is about player growth and next season/beyond at this point. So, I guess that's what the debate is about. How does this team insure that the young guys it NEEDS to turn out well do so? Tocchet's job now is to find a way to put them into a good position to succeed.

Ps, I don't mind some players being in the AHL this year. BUT if one of those players is called up to play in the NHL, it does them no good to play 11 minutes a night with Cousins and whoever, imo.

HOWEVER: This is something I agree with you rt...our options have been limited. Stepan, Hammer, etc were supposed to be those vets brought in to help but that obviously hasn't gone well for this team. And that's probably the biggest problem of this team. Not that they are young, but that the vets that were supposed to provide stability and consistent effort haven't done so enough. Which, in turn, limits the amount of minutes that could be considered "easy" for our younger players to take advantage of. The vets have realllly dropped the ball for this team and put the Yotes in a tough spot. If the vets perform well, it takes pressure off of the younger guys to carry the load and allows things to fall into place a bit easier. Ps, I also think Vrbata would have been a good signing for this team.

The reason a prospects confidence is destroyed is because they find out at the NHL level, guys with less skill (Rinaldo/Archibald. etc...) but that play better without the puck get roster spots and TOI. They tried to nurse Strome along 3 times now, doesn't work no matter where you were drafted. You can't 'wish" skill players into NHL roster spots, they need to earn it. Once they earn it, they will stick on the roster and get more TOI and play on a higher line. Nobody is anointed at this level.

Tocc has demonstrated that he isn't good at putting any players, vets or youth, in a position to succeed (so far). If I were the coach, I would play the players that give me the best chance of winning tonight. When slugs like Rinaldo/Cousins or Archibald get out played in practice or play poorly in an NHL game, I would give Crouse/Merckly or whoever a shot for a game or two. The cream will rise to the top, it always does. You can't make it or help it rise too early.
 

Mosby

Fire Bettman
Feb 16, 2012
23,618
18,640
Toronto
I think they would've brought back Vrbata had Tippett not been canned. So that's why they didn't deal him last deadline. Things changed in the weeks that followed.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,105
9,151
When the team doesn't have players that match up against other team's lines well would you rather have a 4th line plug get destroyed or a prospect that we have high hopes for get his confidence destroyed by being dominated? It's easy to complain why players are getting ice time they don't deserve short term but the reality is we need to try to protect our top young assets in the hope they continue to grow. Even in this dismal season. Personally I would have went the Toronto route of signing vets to one year deals to hold the fort and trade them for assets every Feb but maybe they couldn't get the vets to sign??

Hog wash. Look at our line up and see who is doing well. We have vets, unfortunately they are the ones not stepping up.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,105
9,151
The reason a prospects confidence is destroyed is because they find out at the NHL level, guys with less skill (Rinaldo/Archibald. etc...) but that play better without the puck get roster spots and TOI. They tried to nurse Strome along 3 times now, doesn't work no matter where you were drafted. You can't 'wish" skill players into NHL roster spots, they need to earn it. Once they earn it, they will stick on the roster and get more TOI and play on a higher line. Nobody is anointed at this level.

Tocc has demonstrated that he isn't good at putting any players, vets or youth, in a position to succeed (so far). If I were the coach, I would play the players that give me the best chance of winning tonight. When slugs like Rinaldo/Cousins or Archibald get out played in practice or play poorly in an NHL game, I would give Crouse/Merckly or whoever a shot for a game or two. The cream will rise to the top, it always does. You can't make it or help it rise too early.

Exactly. We have a farm team for this reason. The thing is you need the right mix of vets and kids. Most of our forward vets come from the same mold. A Vrbata type player would have worked wonders for this team, not the Archibalds, Cousins and Rinaldo's of the world. We do not have the right mix of vets.
 

Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,294
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Hog wash. Look at our line up and see who is doing well. We have vets, unfortunately they are the ones not stepping up.
So do you think we should just put Strome up against Getzlaf and such and just let him learn from there?? Or let Stephan just suffer this season while the young guys grow? Merkley grow in Tucson or get destroyed in Glendale? No hogwash whatsoever, It's what good teams to to protect and grow their assets.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
42,739
21,480
Phoenix
Seems right on to me. I don't follow every case but I think the suspension deciders have done a better job lately than they get credit for.
 

Jakey53

Registered User
Aug 27, 2011
30,105
9,151
So do you think we should just put Strome up against Getzlaf and such and just let him learn from there?? Or let Stephan just suffer this season while the young guys grow? Merkley grow in Tucson or get destroyed in Glendale? No hogwash whatsoever, It's what good teams to to protect and grow their assets.

I didn't say that. I thought that is why we signed Stepan. If the kids have the talent let them play.
 
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Jamieh

Registered User
Apr 25, 2012
11,294
6,321
I didn't say that. I thought that is why we signed Stepan. If the kids have the talent let them play.
They don't yet. That's why we play players with no future higher than they deserve so the kids can learn slowly.
 

SniperHF

Rejecting Reports
Mar 9, 2007
42,739
21,480
Phoenix
I googled a few other recent sucker punches and what suspensions were issued. Haley got 1 game. Lucic got 1 game. Prout got 1 game. Nolan got 1 game. Ritchie got 2. Holland got fined last year.

Rinaldo got 6, he has history but it's more of the illegal hit variety than the sucker punch variety.
I think most people calling for the "kick him out of the league" variety of suspension were just looking for an excuse to be OUTRAGED on the internet because they knew from the jump that wasn't going to happen.
 

Bonsai Tree

Turning a new leaf
Feb 2, 2014
9,216
4,519
More raw meat for those who love the exhilaration that comes from joining an anonymous internet rage mob.
 

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