Yzerman's 1997 Playoffs

[Voight]

Just screwing around on the internet tonight and I happened to notice Steve Yzerman managed a merger 13 points in 20 playoff games in 1997. He had 20 in 18 the year before, 24 in 22 the next year and even 23 in 23 in 2002 on one knee.

Does anyone know why Stevie had such a bad playoff year? I don't recall him being injured, and its just bizarre his production would dip and the go right back up with relatively the same team / line-mates.

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[Doctor No]

I vote for random chance.

I did a Poisson simulation of 3000 "Yzerman postseasons", each with 20 games played, using a five-year average points per game centered around 1997 (92 points in 95 games). These were the results:

POINTS | PROB
7|0.0%
8|0.2%
9|0.3%
10|0.6%
11|1.3%
12|2.7%
13|3.9%
14|4.9%
15|5.9%
16|8.1%
17|7.5%
18|8.8%
19|9.5%
20|9.1%
21|8.2%
22|6.9%
23|5.9%
24|4.5%
25|4.1%
26|2.9%
27|2.0%
28|1.1%
29|0.6%
30|0.4%
31|0.4%
32|0.2%
33|0.0%
34|0.1%
35|0.1%

And of course, a Poisson distribution assumes that Yzerman performs exactly the same way each game, when in reality his performances would vary (meaning that this distribution would be spread out even more than this).

 

[Sadekuuro]

Hard to explain, as his play didn't look as bad as his stat line. I do remember him playing a lot with Tomas Sandstrom on his wing, who struggled that postseason and was not productive, but he obviously should have produced more anyway.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Just screwing around on the internet tonight and I happened to notice Steve Yzerman managed a merger 13 points in 20 playoff games in 1997. He had 20 in 18 the year before, 24 in 22 the next year and even 23 in 23 in 2002 on one knee.

Does anyone know why Stevie had such a bad playoff year? I don't recall him being injured, and its just bizarre his production would dip and the go right back up with relatively the same team / line-mates.

Although he didn't score as much as '96 or '98, he was fantastic throughout the playoffs. I recall vaguely on tv that he lost the Conn Smythe voting to Mike Vernon by 2 votes, which I believe was the closest vote in history up to that point.

 

[tony d]

And yet I think this is the playoffs that Yzerman became more than an offensive wonder. His offense may not have been there as much but his changing his style of play helped Detroit become a better player.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Although he didn't score as much as '96 or '98, he was fantastic throughout the playoffs. I recall vaguely on tv that he lost the Conn Smythe voting to Mike Vernon by 2 votes, which I believe was the closest vote in history up to that point.

I've seen this claim before (Yzerman close runner up to Vernon in 1997), and I find it incredible, considering how far ahead Fedorov should have been. I'd chalk it up to overly large effect of nationalism in hockey at the time, but that wouldn't explain why Yzerman would have finished ahead of Shanahan:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/1997.html

(Just going by stats, Shanahan looks better than Yzerman, but it was a long time ago, and I don't remember who was more visually impressive between the two. I do remember feeling Fedorov was robbed at the time, however).

_________

Back on topic, Yzerman's 13 points were tied for 3rd on the team, so it's not like he did poorly. The Wings were a deep, defense-first team. Only Fedorov (20) and Shanahan (17) outscored Yzerman.

 

[Hobnobs]

I've seen this claim before (Yzerman close runner up to Vernon in 1997), and I find it incredible, considering how far ahead Fedorov should have been. I'd chalk it up to overly large effect of nationalism in hockey at the time, but that wouldn't explain why Yzerman would have finished ahead of Shanahan:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/1997.html

(Just going by stats, Shanahan looks better than Yzerman, but it was a long time ago, and I don't remember who was more visually impressive between the two. I do remember feeling Fedorov was robbed at the time, however).

_________

Back on topic, Yzerman's 13 points were tied for 3rd on the team, so it's not like he did poorly. The Wings were a deep, defense-first team. Only Fedorov (20) and Shanahan (17) outscored Yzerman.

Yzerman gets extra points for being a leader and finally shattering the choke label.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Yzerman gets extra points for being a leader and finally shattering the choke label.

Obviously, he did.

But a 20-13 gap in points is huge, with both players excellent defensively by that point

 

[jetsfan91]

Interesting to see Detroit only won 38 games that regular season.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I remember Yzerman being outstanding that playoff year. If his low production was noticed at the time, I really don't remember it.

One possible factor is that the Wings were such an incredibly well rounded team, especially having a couple of different "first lines", and that meant a lot of spread-out production up and down the lineup. They really didn't have any really high-end scorers compared to what you'd expect from a dominant SC team. Fedorov had his PPG, but that wasn't so special in 1997. But they got good production from guys like Lapointe and Kozlov and Larionov, so Yzerman wasn't in a position to be absolutely critical to his team's success like Lindros and Sakic were that year.

 

[Hobnobs]

Obviously, he did.

But a 20-13 gap in points is huge, with both players excellent defensively by that point

Well add that Fedorov probably gets some minus points for being Russian and BOOM! They are in the same ball park. Plus, Yzerman was extraordinary that year even if doesnt show in the score sheet.

 

[Doctor No]

Admittedly, that was back then non-Canadians were forbidden to win the Conn Smythe (Leetch being the only one).

 

[DisgruntledGoat*]

Admittedly, that was back then non-Canadians were forbidden to win the Conn Smythe (Leetch being the only one).

I would love to see your list of deserving non-Canadians who were passed over.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I would love to see your list of deserving non-Canadians who were passed over.

Fedorov in 1997

Even when Lidstrom won in 2002, I feel like the arguments involving the Conn Smythe had a certain unsavory nationalistic element.

Anyway, I really would like to see an original source for the "Yzerman was 2nd to Vernon in Conn Smythe voting in 1997," because I've seen it a few times here.

 

[Sadekuuro]

Anyway, I really would like to see an original source for the "Yzerman was 2nd to Vernon in Conn Smythe voting in 1997," because I've seen it a few times here.

I was going to ask if anyone has ever seen inside the black box of Conn Smythe votes. I don't think I ever have.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I was going to ask if anyone has ever seen inside the black box of Conn Smythe votes. I don't think I ever have.

Occasionally, bits of the results will be published at the time. We know Keith was apparently a unanimous winner last year. And HOH has a primary source as to Tom Barrasso finishing #2 behind Mario Lemieux in one of the Penguins' wins.

So it wouldn't be completely out of the ordinary for a bit about Yzerman finishing 2 points behind Vernon in 1997 to be published... other than the fact that Fedorov was clearcut more valuable than Yzerman that particular year.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Even when Lidstrom won in 2002, I feel like the arguments involving the Conn Smythe had a certain unsavory nationalistic element.

I felt like that one came down to Steve Yzerman and a few players from Latvia and Sweden. It's not really nationalistic; people just really like Steve Yzerman.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I've seen this claim before (Yzerman close runner up to Vernon in 1997), and I find it incredible, considering how far ahead Fedorov should have been. I'd chalk it up to overly large effect of nationalism in hockey at the time, but that wouldn't explain why Yzerman would have finished ahead of Shanahan:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/1997.html

(Just going by stats, Shanahan looks better than Yzerman, but it was a long time ago, and I don't remember who was more visually impressive between the two. I do remember feeling Fedorov was robbed at the time, however).

_________

Back on topic, Yzerman's 13 points were tied for 3rd on the team, so it's not like he did poorly. The Wings were a deep, defense-first team. Only Fedorov (20) and Shanahan (17) outscored Yzerman.

I didn't think Yzerman was close to playoff MVP in '97. Perhaps Fedorov or Vernon. I thought Stevie was the best Wing in the '96, '98 and '99 playoffs, but it just never occurred to me in '97.

That's not to say Yzerman wasn't great- he did just about everything those playoffs- leadership, faceoffs, defense, blocked shots, scoring. He may not have scored a lot, but his goals did seem pretty timely- like game 3 vs Philly after falling behind for the first time in the series.

However, maybe it helped that he was a league darling and he hadn't won a major individual award up to that point (excluding the Pearson), so maybe this was a good time to try and award him one. He didn't win in the end though, and I think a better candidate (Vernon) won.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Fedorov in 1997

Even when Lidstrom won in 2002, I feel like the arguments involving the Conn Smythe had a certain unsavory nationalistic element.

Anyway, I really would like to see an original source for the "Yzerman was 2nd to Vernon in Conn Smythe voting in 1997," because I've seen it a few times here.

The best I can say is I remember it was mentioned either that very night of game 4, or very shortly thereafter. I am 90% sure it came from tv, but I suppose newspaper is possible too (would've been a Toronto newspaper then). Not just that Yzerman was 2nd to Vernon, but that it was the closest vote in history at that time, having lost by 2 votes.

 

[Doctor No]

I would love to see your list of deserving non-Canadians who were passed over.

And I'd love to see where you think that I said that I wouldn't vote for a non-Canadian.

This was discussed A LOT, especially when Leetch became the first. It was perceived as a real thing.

 

[Sentinel]

Yzerman played with McCarty (overachieved) and Sandstrom (underachieved). The whole team finally bought into Scotty's "defense first" philosophy and possibly thrived on being an underdog (the previous year's expectations crushed them).

A few people talked about Yzerman being robbed on the CS, but i felt that was more out of universal love for him. Fedorov OTOH...

But he was indeed amazing in his two way play and leadership. There is more to life than offensive stats.

 

[danincanada]

Yzerman played very well but it just didn't translate into a lot of offense. His line mate Sandstrom competed hard but couldn't accomplish anything offensively so that definitely played a role.

I would have given the CS to Fedorov as well. The team played too well in front of Vernon to really justify giving it to the goalie but at the time I couldn't care less because of that big shiny cup getting in the way.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I blame Sandstrom.

I think he is one of the only players to not score a goal in the playoffs on the first line with a cup winning team.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I felt like that one came down to Steve Yzerman and a few players from Latvia and Sweden. It's not really nationalistic; people just really like Steve Yzerman.

As Dr No said a few posts later in response to someone else, it was talked about as a thing at the time. I completely understand that Yzerman was a fine 2nd choice in 2002, and all that, but there was talk at the time about whether a European could truly win the Conn Smythe with the Don Cherrys of the media insinuating that it's tough to be the most valuable player in the playoffs when you didn't grow up wanting to win the Stanley Cup, etc. It wasn't until Lidstrom actually won that nonsense like that was mainly put to rest.

I didn't think Yzerman was close to playoff MVP in '97. Perhaps Fedorov or Vernon. I thought Stevie was the best Wing in the '96, '98 and '99 playoffs, but it just never occurred to me in '97.

That's not to say Yzerman wasn't great- he did just about everything those playoffs- leadership, faceoffs, defense, blocked shots, scoring. He may not have scored a lot, but his goals did seem pretty timely- like game 3 vs Philly after falling behind for the first time in the series.

However, maybe it helped that he was a league darling and he hadn't won a major individual award up to that point (excluding the Pearson), so maybe this was a good time to try and award him one. He didn't win in the end though, and I think a better candidate (Vernon) won.

Yeah, this is how I looked at it.

Yzerman played with McCarty (overachieved) and Sandstrom (underachieved). The whole team finally bought into Scotty's "defense first" philosophy and possibly thrived on being an underdog (the previous year's expectations crushed them).

A few people talked about Yzerman being robbed on the CS, but i felt that was more out of universal love for him. Fedorov OTOH...

But he was indeed amazing in his two way play and leadership. There is more to life than offensive stats.

I thought Yzerman played with Shanahan, while Fedorov played with Kozlov, and I want to say Brown.

 

[overg]

Lines shifted around some during the playoffs, but by the finals Shanahan was with Larionov and LaPointe.