Yzerman - Sakic - Crosby vs Fedorov - Forsberg - Malkin
- Thread starter Ben White
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This is really hard.
I can literally make a case for any of the 6 players to be ranked anywhere from 1 to 6
I can literally make a case for any of the 6 players to be ranked anywhere from 1 to 6
Nathaniel Skywalker
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JackSlater
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This is a pretty tough one as I consider each of their peaks to be around the same level. Crosby and Forsberg struggled to maintain their peaks, mainly due to health I suppose, but showed enough that we can guess roughly where they were. The other four have very clear peak seasons that were all clearcut best player in the world seasons, outside of Yzerman due to going against prime Gretzky and prime Lemieux. I'll call it even.
Gurglesons
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Crosby now doesn’t have a clear peak season where he was the best player in the world?
Gurglesons
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Nathaniel Skywalker
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KoozNetsOff 92
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Peak season
Malkin/Fedorov
Yzerman/Sakic
Crosby
Forsberg
Peak "level of play"
All very close, Crosby probably just a bit ahead of the rest.
Voted euros because I think Malkin and Fedorov had the best peak seasons. No wrong answer though. Good poll.
Malkin/Fedorov
Yzerman/Sakic
Crosby
Forsberg
Peak "level of play"
All very close, Crosby probably just a bit ahead of the rest.
Voted euros because I think Malkin and Fedorov had the best peak seasons. No wrong answer though. Good poll.
JackSlater
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How are you judging peak? Because if it's single season then there's no way Crosby is 1st or Fedorov is last.
Gurglesons
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It says Crosby and Forsberg struggled to maintain their peak and the other four were the best players in the league?
Nathaniel Skywalker
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Sakic in 2001 is right there with him in contention imo. Can maybe give edge to Malkin, but it's close.
Fatass
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Fedorov is an underrated player. He could do it all, including play as a D man, and be the best.
If I’m starting a team, I take the three Europeans. I get a number one scoring centre in Malkin, a number two shutdown (hard to play against) centre in Forsberg, and a number one D man (who I play on D, because he’s fabulous at it) in Fedorov.
If I’m starting a team, I take the three Europeans. I get a number one scoring centre in Malkin, a number two shutdown (hard to play against) centre in Forsberg, and a number one D man (who I play on D, because he’s fabulous at it) in Fedorov.
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Ben White
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I hear you , it suits the poll as they are all American however what makes this poll amusing is that all three centers played at the same team and at the same time as their counterpart
Hull/Kane/Modano don't belong here.
Modano is way below anyone else here for peak.
Kane had a fantastic peak season - but despite that, he would still be dead last in this grouping. Everyone else has simply done better.
Hull's peak is great - he would certainly belong.
As a group though - they would easily be beaten by the other two groups.
Modano is way below anyone else here for peak.
Kane had a fantastic peak season - but despite that, he would still be dead last in this grouping. Everyone else has simply done better.
Hull's peak is great - he would certainly belong.
As a group though - they would easily be beaten by the other two groups.
Ben White
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I know several of these players had health issues but Forsberg, oh man was he unlucky. If you look at his “pre injury” play in both 03/04 and 05/06 he was so way ahead of the pack that it’s a pretty fair assumption he could’ve won the art + hart both these years had he stayed healthy. Then assume he had the same level of play in him in the lockout season 04/05 and we’re looking at 4 arts + harts in a row, add to that a smythe in 02 had they gone all the way and it gives a pretty remarkable picture of what could’ve been if it wasn’t for circumstances really out of Forsberg’s control. Off course you can’t give him credit for a huge what if scenario like that, but I think it gives a pretty good hint of Forsberg’s actual peak level during that period of play.
In terms of what though, points above his competition? Because Crosby's 2013-14 Art Ross is +17 points above 2nd place Getzlaf, but only .17 PPG above Getz, and only .10 PPG above Malkin who missed 20+ games that season and finished at 1.2 PPG. Patrick Kane's 2015-16 Art Ross was also +17 points above 2nd place Jamie Benn, but .20 PPG over Benn, in a season where only a total of 8 players averaged > 1.0 PPG.
Objectively speaking based on these simple numbers it seems Kane's Art Ross was more impressive. Perhaps there's fancy stats I'm not seeing here, but a quick glance doesn't seem to support your statement and I only went back a few years. Kucherov's Art Ross is pretty impressive subjectively if you consider he beat out generational reigning two-time winner McDavid by 12 points and led the NHL with the highest point total since Mario Lemieux's 161 point 1995-96' season.
I said above in my first reply I could see any of the 6 ranked as #1 - but I actually think Forsberg is the one exception.
"level of play" - I'd have Crosby #1, from 2011-2013. Simply put - better than Forsberg, if not by a huge margin. Maybe you put Forsberg #2, maybe someone else, but I wouldn't have him #1.
Best full single season - Forsberg is weak here. 2003 is a really good season, but no way to argue for it as #1. In fact i'd have it last.
Single playoff peak - again, Forsberg very strong here, but he's certainly behind both Sakic and Malkin at least, probably Crosby and maybe even Yzerman too.
Ben White
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It’s very difficult to evaluate “peak level of play” especially for a guy like Forsberg with basically a non existing sample size of healthy seasons. His 2003 season was far from his “best” season, it just happened to be one of his two 75+ games seasons (where the other was his ‘96 season so before his prime). I’d say he achieved his peak play in the following seasons: ’99, ‘02 playoffs, ‘04 pre injury. He missed the first half of the ‘00 season due to a serious injury which also affected his level of play in the ‘01 season. The ‘97 season was the start of his prime but an injury put a stop to what could’ve been a fantastic 3rd year (think he lead the scoring race at the time of the injury). In ‘98 and ‘06 pre injury he was basically on his ‘03 level. So, yeah, not much to go by. It’s pretty much a big what if the whole thing. We on this board who really followed his career closely, and know what level he had in him (basically a top 10 all time kind of level had he stayed healthy and everything fallen out in an all around beneficial way for him) are fighting the good fight for him, but we’re also (I think) aware of the complete lack of full healthy seasons to evaluate.
Perennial
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Peak Forsberg was every bit as productive as Crosby
