Yzerman, Messier, Sakic, what made them such great leaders?

[whcanuck]

In my opinion, and I think a lot of other people's opinions too, leadership is that X-Factor that turns talented teams into champions.

There have been many great leaders in hockey's incredible history, but 3 guys who've always stood out to me, at least in the last 25 to 30 years, were Steve Yzerman, Mark Messier and Joe Sakic.

They've won 11 Stanley Cups between them and were captains of their teams for almost their entire careers.

Yzerman was an offensive superstar for the first half of his career and transformed his game into a two-way centre after Scotty Bowman arrived in Detroit. Yzerman had to learn to win the hard way after years of heartbreak in the playoffs, before finally breaking through with back to back Cups in '97 and '98.

Messier has been criticized for his time in Vancouver, but I believe Markus Naslund has gone on record saying that Messier's presence on the west coast helped his career immensely. Messier's impact on those Oiler and Ranger teams are undeniable. 6 Stanley Cups kind of speaks for itself.

Sakic is the quintessential quiet leader. Everyone respects the heck out of this guy and his teammates in Colorado would play their hearts out for him. He was a monster in the playoffs in both 1996 and 2001, both Colorado Cup wins. Plus the ultimate selfless move, passing the Cup to the long-suffering Ray Bourque after the team's game 7 Cup victory in 2001.

But what qualities, what specific qualities made these guys such great leaders and people who their teammates wanted to follow? I know the usual traits are passed around, respect, leads by example etc. But does anyone know any specific stories about these guys, or any other leaders, that shows why they get such respect and admiration in the hockey world?

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[Staniowski]

All 3 were great players, they were hard workers, performed well when the chips were down, no doubt about it.

Messier's skating enabled him to become the great player he was. Sakic had a legendary shot and work ethic. Yzerman had great all-around offensive talent, and improved his defensive game.

But the leadership thing is a lot to do with playing for great teams. As a group, these guys had most of their playoff successes while being the 2nd best centres on their own teams. This is a luxury. So, while all 3 were great players, they were also fortunate.

I don't think anybody was calling Sakic a legendary leader when he scored 11 playoff points in his first 7 seasons. After picking up Roy, Ozolinch, Lemieux, Keane, etc., and with the continued improvement of Forsberg and other young guys, they won the Cup. Then Sakic became known as a great leader.

So, being on great teams is really a prerequisite to being generally known as a great leader.

So were guys like Sakic and Yzerman better leaders than lots of other guys? Who knows. But if they played for below-average teams for most of their careers, few people would be calling them great leaders.

 

[The Panther]

They've won 11 Stanley Cups between them and were captains of their teams for almost their entire careers.

That's true of Sakic and somewhat of Yzerman (captain from 4th season), but not of Messier. He wasn't captain until his 10th NHL season (11th pro).

As far as growing into team leaders goes, I think Messier and Sakic had favorable situations. Messier (and all other Oilers) were in Gretzky's shadow for 9 years, which was a very good place to be. They could grow into themselves on a great team without having the burden of the spotlight or expectations of the media, etc. By 1985 or so, Messier was a "team leader" on Edmonton, but still another few years passed before he wore the 'C' (and only then thanks to the sale of Gretzky). Sakic was less fortunate in terms of his team situation (joined the Nords just as they bottomed out into one of the worst teams ever), but it was favorable in the sense that he could be 'mentored' by Stastny, Goulet, Lafleur, Steve Finn (closer to his age), etc., in a no-expectations environment where just not getting destroyed was an accomplishment. He also took a stand on the Lindros kerfuffle in '91-'92, telling the media he was tired of hearing Lindros's name and wanted teammates who wanted to play in Quebec, etc., which probably endeared him to local fans.

Yzerman's situation was tougher, I think, because he was in a desperate big-market hockey city and was named captain just after the Wings finished last overall. And it would be 11 more years of ups and downs before he finally got his name on the Cup. As mentioned, he also had a lot of support up front by then, and didn't have to do it all himself as he kind of did circa 1987 to 1991.

Actually, my impression of Yzerman is that he was a bit less of a leader-"type" than Messier or Sakic. He probably wore the role more by quiet example than anything else. But there is no formula for it.

 

[Midnight Judges]

They all landed on great teams?

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

The thing one has to understand with Yzerman is that it would have been easy for him to lose patience with the Wings, to rebel against the situation with the pressure piled on him, to be unhappy with Bowman's style and demands. The fact he stuck with the program and made sure he was part of the solution not the problem, that's leadership all in itself.

Senior players don't need to give big speeches in the locker room or get in people's faces etc. to be leaders. Especially if the coach is someone like Scotty Bowman who has no difficulty getting his point across. Yzerman showing that he as the superstar was willing to place the team's interest first, willing to work with coaches, willing to learn and adjust even as a famous veteran...that is what sets guys apart.

You sometimes take that for granted, but there's been quite a few great players who got quite focused on 'self-fulfillment' as a primary career motivation once they were established. It's easy for an organization to 'forget' how to win when you don't have star players who keep pushing for winning hockey values. I think we sometimes take it for granted that the Wings became what they became but if Steve Yzerman is Alexei Yashin, I doubt that ever happens.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The thing one has to understand with Yzerman is that it would have been easy for him to lose patience with the Wings, to rebel against the situation with the pressure piled on him, to be unhappy with Bowman's style and demands.

Really? Bowman rolls into town with 6 cups to Yzerman's 0 and Yzerman held the balance of the leverage?

 

[JackSlater]

The most important thing for a leader to do in team sports, in my eyes, is set a consistent example through their play on the ice. These guys did that (cue youtube videos of Messier cheap shots I fear) for the most part. They all played hard, did what was needed even in the less glamourous parts of the game, didn't get too high or too low. Yes, even Messier always seemed to do things in a calculated manner rather than an emotional one. There is no tried and true method though. From what I've read I don't think that Messier's more in your face style was similar to Yzerman's or Sakic's style, but teams have different requirements and what works in some situations won't work in others.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Mostly it is a hindsight thing.. they won and then they were considered great leaders. The media builds a narrative around their accomplishments to get there. Messier knocked Potvin down once when he was off balance and totally changed the series around.. yeah ok.. Yzerman was an all offense choker who sacrificed his personal numbers to win.. no it wasn't that he was aging and had a deeper team.. Sakic went from a nothing who had hardly been in the playoffs to a clutch player right around the time Patrick Roy and company helped make the Avs stacked..

Great players, probably good leaders in the sense that they prepared and performed well under pressure.. but I don't think we can tell much from our perspectives as fans for sure.

 

[Neutrinos]

I can't speak to Messier's leadership qualities, but I would think Sakic and Yzerman were so highly respected by their organizations/communities/fellow players/etc. that their teammates never wanted to disappoint them

 

[MO!]

Watch Yzermans highlights from the 2002 playoffs and then his name will no longer be in the question.

 

[koyvoo]

Watch Yzermans highlights from the 2002 playoffs and then his name will no longer be in the question.

In 2002 he was very injured for much of the season if I recall. I believe he missed considerable time, came in to play for team Canada and won gold in the Olympics, missed a whole lot more time and came back on one leg to play in Detroit’s cup run in the playoffs.

As mentioned above, it’s leadership by example. When you see your established captain/superstar/future hall of famer displaying that sort of commitment to team and will to win, it’s very hard for Joe 3rd liner to not give the same sort of effort.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Just wanted to say how much I love the thread/topic and have enjoyed reading everyone's answers! Thanks @whcanuck for such an interesting/thought-provoking topic!

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

Beliveau, Clarke & Messier were the best leaders ever in the NHL; Sakic, Yzerman, etc are easily a tier below if not more.

 

[The Panther]

Beliveau, Clarke & Messier were the best leaders ever in the NHL; Sakic, Yzerman, etc are easily a tier below if not more.

On what basis are you making this very final-sounding judgment?

 

[sr edler]

They all landed on great teams?

Nordiques were terrible when Sakic landed there. Red Wings were bad too, the Dead Things. Saying Sakic and Yzerman landed on great teams is like saying Ovechkin landed on a great team, or Mario Lemieux landed on a great team.

 

[The Panther]

Nordiques were terrible when Sakic landed there. Red Wings were bad too, the Dead Things. Saying Sakic and Yzerman landed on great teams is like saying Ovechkin landed on a great team, or Mario Lemieux landed on a great team.

That's right. Also, Owen Nolan landed the same place as Sakic, Petr Klima the same as Yzerman, and Glenn Anderson the same as Messier, yet we don't hear them being called great leaders.

 

[tony d]

Messier probably learned a lot from Gretzky, Yzerman from Bowman. Not sure how Sakic got his leadership skills. Guess playing on some of those poor Quebec teams in the late 80's/early 90's and strived to get better in all aspects of the game.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Messier probably learned a lot from Gretzky, Yzerman from Bowman. Not sure how Sakic got his leadership skills. Guess playing on some of those poor Quebec teams in the late 80's/early 90's and strived to get better in all aspects of the game.

Lafleur mentored Sakic to some extent.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Lafleur mentored Sakic to some extent.

Patrick Roy helped him too when he was traded to the Avs.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Nordiques were terrible when Sakic landed there. Red Wings were bad too, the Dead Things. Saying Sakic and Yzerman landed on great teams is like saying Ovechkin landed on a great team, or Mario Lemieux landed on a great team.

Yes, I said it poorly.

But the point is, their GMs brought in talent, and they had very little to do with player acquisition.

 

[Midnight Judges]

That's right. Also, Owen Nolan landed the same place as Sakic, Petr Klima the same as Yzerman, and Glenn Anderson the same as Messier, yet we don't hear them being called great leaders.

Okay? So the narrative latched onto one guy and not the other, and it's basically always the guy who is the superior player. I don't know that it tells you much about real leadership.

Last season when Ovie won the cup everyone (example: Pierre McGuire) talked about how all those changes Ovechkin made were working out in terms of leadership. When asked what those changes were, none of the Capitals were able to list a single one. The answer was always "uh I dunno" and stuff like that. They asked Oshie, they asked Ovechkin, they asked Niskanen and Holtby - none of them said anything was different.

Of course those answers didn't stop the media from running with their preferred narrative.

 

[tarheelhockey]

For Yzerman and Sakic, simple longevity goes a long way. There came a point where there was one guy in the room who had not only been there longer than any other player... but could also remember multiple coaches, GMs, ownership groups... even cities.

In any team environment, that guy commands a different sort of respect. But unlike most team environments, in sports that guy is also the most talented one in the room, the one who handles the most media requests, signs the most autographs, is the guy rookies are shy to approach. That knocks it up another notch.

And then, as noted above, top teams are the ones that get the narratives and lore. The reason Ray Bourque isn’t in this thread is because the Bruins never turned around during his tenure. And the reason he isn’t subject to “what’s the matter with this guy?” threads is because he managed to get himself into the right environment before it was too late. That’s how national media coverage works, it blows everything up to larger than life size.

Finally, following on the narratives and lore, Sakic and Yzerman never said or did anything to really piss people off. It’s hard to remember a quote from either of them. I’m not completely sure Sakic even spoke English.

Messier is a totally different subject IMO.

 

[JackSlater]

Okay? So the narrative latched onto one guy and not the other, and it's basically always the guy who is the superior player. I don't know that it tells you much about real leadership.

Last season when Ovie won the cup everyone (example: Pierre McGuire) talked about how all those changes Ovechkin made were working out in terms of leadership. When asked what those changes were, none of the Capitals were able to list a single one. The answer was always "uh I dunno" and stuff like that. They asked Oshie, they asked Ovechkin, they asked Niskanen and Holtby - none of them said anything was different.

Of course those answers didn't stop the media from running with their preferred narrative.

Media and fans often can't accept that sometimes things happen differently from season to season even though nothing significant changed.

Finally, following on the narratives and lore, Sakic and Yzerman never said or did anything to really piss people off. It’s hard to remember a quote from either of them. I’m not completely sure Sakic even spoke English.

At the very least English wasn't his first language. I cannot remember a Sakic interview from before he was a GM though.

This is a story that Sportsnet did on Yzerman a few months back, some of it pertaining to leadership. I know that obviously in 2019 guys aren't going to talk to the media and crap on Steve Yzerman but it shows that his style was based on the small things.

How a young Steve Yzerman became the pride of Nepean - Sportsnet.ca

 

[tarheelhockey]

At the very least English wasn't his first language.

Was it not? I was just being sarcastic. I thought he was from BC (Burnaby Joe).

 

[The Panther]

The reason Ray Bourque isn’t in this thread is because the Bruins never turned around during his tenure.

The Bruins were one of the top teams in the NHL during much of Bourque's tenure, esp. 1979 to 1984 and 1987 to 1993. What were they turning around from?

And the reason he isn’t subject to “what’s the matter with this guy?” threads is because he managed to get himself into the right environment before it was too late. That’s how national media coverage works, it blows everything up to larger than life size.

I never heard a single person say anything about Bourque suddenly being a "leader" because he won the Cup in his last game. Did you? I also never heard a single person ask "what's the matter with this guy?" during Bourque's time in Boston. More like the complete opposite.

Finally, following on the narratives and lore, Sakic and Yzerman never said or did anything to really piss people off. It’s hard to remember a quote from either of them. I’m not completely sure Sakic even spoke English.

Of course he spoke English. He was out of the Vancouver area and then played in the WHL. It's not like was running around Quebec City speaking Croatian...