Your view on the current situation with NHL vs NHLPA

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Crusher20, Sep 14, 2004.

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  1. Crusher20

    Crusher20 Registered User

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    Hi ! here is my idea, everyone can post is toughts about the situation right now with the NHL. Here are my toughts im not expert just using my common sence with the little knowledge i got. just give me yout toughts and post YOUR comments about the situation too.

    ok here it goes: ;)

    My opinions starts with a question: Why would a Macdonald employee in downtown with a great service, and possibly the best in the world (to compare somewhat with the NHL players attracting more customers) should make more money than the owner of macdonalds (who created the idea and bought the rights to have the right to make some money IF they do any)? without owners no league, no NHL, no NHLPA, no millions for the players. If they arent happy well they should just create their own league and stop complaining about the system, as simple as that. Wait something is wrong here, they probably wouldnt do it because it wouldnt be easy for them? It wouldn't be profitable enough? why? because they would be owners, wich would mean they would maybe start thinking: ''hey we arent making any money.. maybe we should lower the salaries...'' Some owners make money some wont, heck why anyone would want to become owners if they actually dont make money, why would some teams exist just for the fans why someone would bought a team just for being the losers, of course it is a responsability for the owners, but at the same time we wont ear the NHLPA complain about those extra jobs created? do they? While some players dont give a hell, the NHLPA actually dont give a hell at all. OK they will play in tournements, olympics and stuff, but what about all those amateurs in Olympics? I mean in fact they arent amateurs they are pro just without any stable salary and do it for sponsorship (if they want money).. thats all. heck if you deserve good, if not shut up while it wouldnt be the same for NHL players?

    The situations is funny the logic is simple why does the NHLPA is so blind, actually I'm sure they know, but the heck why not take advantage of the situation? couldnt a league just exist and players could be payed whatever the owner wants? even if the maximum salary is just 500 000$ at the end everyone will still be willing to make such a great career for such a big salary. YEAH I know owners have created the situation, but they can rectify it, just put a salary cap, if they arent happy well again create your own league if it so good for owners.

    end of story.

    any toughts?

    (edited edition, my first one was wack and only wrote with inspiration, sorry for my poor english.)
     
  2. Hire Sather

    Hire Sather Don't punt seasons

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    NHLPA is fine.. the NHL/Owners are the reason why theres no season.
     
  3. Crusher20

    Crusher20 Registered User

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    yeah, because the players are greedy and they are blind if they dont see the sport isnt healthy, NHL aint football, basketball or baseball where the tradition is so great in the states. Hockey is Canada sport mostly and people in the states dont care as much so i expect more of a long lockout more than anything, how many teams in the NHL make money? no much, and i think baseball wasnt in such a great situation either but obviously baseball is top notch priority in the states and some owners, see the Yankees are so rich they dont care about the salary tax, heck so the other teams collect some of the money the Yankees and the other big teams make, that shouldnt be the way to be but.. hey.. i guess Steinbrener as an incredible control with the money he got versus the opinions and options to other owners.. dunno.
     
  4. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    My view?

    Sad..very sad situation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2004
  5. sandman441

    sandman441 Registered User

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    I agree with what barry melrose said. He said something about how bettman's ego and the nlhpa's guy (goodenow? I don't remember) ego is getting in the way they both want to win and nobody wants to even lose a little bit
     
  6. Jeffrey

    Jeffrey Registered User

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    watch other type of hockey like AHL,CHL(OHL,WHL,QJMHL) maybe even european hockey ... no NHL is not that bad !!
    at least hockey still exist ...
    i want the longer lock-out possible .. so both side would lose big time (NHLPA money and NHL Market)
    im planning to watch all Junior and minor league hockey possible + NFL season ... not perfect but still.. could be worse !!
    anyway hope you dont take a GAME too seriously !
    just my 2 cents ! :banana:
     
  7. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Except that the PA has already been willing to lose. If they had their chocie, I think its a safe bet they'd stick witht he current system. If more middle gound needs to be found, its the owners that have to do the walking.
     
  8. Malefic74

    Malefic74 Registered User

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    I disagree. The owners have at least recognized the problem and in large part admitted that it is of their own creation. They are attempting to set the scales back to even. The players don't even accept that there is a problem yet and want everything to stay the same so that they stay in the same league with pro ball, baskeball and football players.

    5% is a drop in the bucket salary-wise, hell I know nurses and teachers who were forced into much deeper rollbacks than that and their jobs are far more important than chasing a puck around the ice. Their other major concession is the proposal of a luxury tax. They lose NOTHING with a luxury tax system. It's rich owners who pay the tax not the players, so how is this a concession? It doesn't cost the players a penny. Of course they like that idea!

    Both groups are filled with liars and egomaniacs and self-absorbed pricks. The only reason I have sided with the owners (for now) is that they have shown some willingness to try and fix what they broke. Lame half-measures are not the solution and don't solve anything.

    There is no more revenue. Attendance league-wide is pretty respectable, there is no miracle TV deal coming, and the expansion money that has kept the league afloat for the past 10 years is gone. If there's no more revenue the only solution is to cut expenses and until the players propose a solution that will do this league-wide they are wasting everyone's time.
     
  9. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    If the players haven't accepted there's a problem, why haven't they even attempted to argue to keep the status quo?

    A tax would most defintely lower salaries, while at the same time giving free money to low income teams. Detroit would most certainly not keep their payroll at $65-70 million if they then had to pay $25-30 million in tax, and Detroit is one of the big evil teams that ruin the league for all the teams that try and build through the draft.

    And if you don't think 5% of a billion and half is significant, well, can I have some of your money?

    The owners have no intention to negotiate. They will not accept anything less than a cap. Even if you disagree with the players, you have to admit they've been more willing to move to middle ground, which is what negotiation is all about.
     
  10. Malefic74

    Malefic74 Registered User

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    The tax has done nothing to alleviate high salaries in baseball, I see no reason to believe it would suddenly work for hockey. It's like gambling with someone else's money, the players don't pay the tax. And as the Yankees and Red Sox have proven, the tax is no detterent to those determined to win.

    (Actually the Red Wings, much to my dismay, restock quite a bit through their draft choices: Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Legace to name but a few)

    I will be happy to acknowledge the players when they make a meaningful gesture, IMO they haven't yet. You are right though, the owners haven't either.

    The hell with it. Screw 'em both. They deserve each other. Wake me when the players are wearing uniforms, not suits.
     
  11. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Baseball's tax is meanignless because its so high. Theres a lot of teams, not just the big markets, over $40 million in hockey. It would have an effect. And like Sasking said last night on CBC, those numbers can be negotiated, as soon as the league is wiling to talk about them.

    I now Detroit has built through the draft, I said that because everyone accuses them of buying their team, when its not true at all.
     
  12. Motown Beatdown

    Motown Beatdown Need a slump buster

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    If that tax number was closer to 70-80 million in MLB it would work alot better. The problems with MLB luxury tax is A) the number is set two high and B) the tax penalty is really weak.

    If the NHL would start taxing money at 40 million at 100% it would work. I figured it out a few days ago, 15 teams had a payroll in excess of 40 million. Those 15 teams went over that 40 million by 240 million dollars. That would mean 240 million dollars in revenue sharing. But we know that wouldn't happen because the owners would not want to pay that high of a tax. They would instruct their GM's to keep the team payroll alot lower. Thus lowering salaries league wide. Lets say Mike Illitch sets aside 60 million dollar for his payroll. His actual payroll would be 50 million and 10 million would be used to pay the luxury tax.
     
  13. HckyFght*

    HckyFght* Guest

  14. Leaf Army

    Leaf Army Registered User

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  15. BBB

    BBB Registered User

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    My view....

    1. Seems obvious to everyone that there is a financial problem in the league
    2. The teams are starting to learn how to use the current CBA in the proper way.
    3. Players aren't going to sign on to a cap/'cost certainty'


    What I think would work...
    0. Go with the same CBA with the follwing adjustments:
    1. A luxury tax seems to be the closest the owners are going to going to get to 'cost certainty'. Set it at 45 million with a dollar for dollar tax on everything above that. I think that this is high enough that the players would go for it.
    2. The salary rollback proposed by the players was a good idea, but just a start. I would say change it from a flat 5% to be 'progressive':
    5% on the first 1.5 million
    10% on the next 2 million
    15% on the next 2 million
    25% on the rest
    So a player earning 1.5 goes to 1.425, 3.0 to 2.775, 4.0 to 3.65, 5.0 to 4.5, 8.0 to 6.8....
    This would give the owners some releif from some of the stupid contracts that they have signed in the past.
    3. Come up with a process where the owners can take the players to arbitration with a maximum decrease that could occur (say 10%)
     
  16. Bruwinz37

    Bruwinz37 Registered User

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    Here is my take. Its the owners (at least a few of them) fault they are in the mess they are in. Bottom line though is that things cant continue like this and the players have to realize it. IMO the league as we know it is done. We will not see hockey this year and a new NHL will form with fewer teams and then the union will really lose. For the good of the game the players need to make some real concessions, not a few bogus ones that wont do anything, like they have tried.

    I hope to see the players concede to a hard cap and a floor as well. I am thinking 38/25. Any teams that cant field a 25m roster can fold up shop as they are more of a problem than they are worth. I hope the NHL makes concessions by ensuring that NHL player's are taken care of after hockey by making sure their pension plans are top of the line. Rookie contracts need to be capped and UFA should come down to 28.

    For teams over the current cap there is no grandfathering. Either trade for draft picks or buyout contracts. After the first season contract buyouts are counted against the cap for 50% of the buyout $$.

    League salaries should never exceed 65% of league revenues. If a system is put in place then the sport can survive...maybe even prosper.
     
  17. BlueForever

    BlueForever Registered User

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    There is no reason why the NHL cannot have a salary cap when there are 2 other leagues running very successfully with one (NBA, NFL).

    If you look at the other major sport that does not have a salary cap they are just as hurting as the NHL. MLB is so disarray that we know year in and year out that the same teams NYY, BOS, PHI, NYM, BAL, ATL, LA, ANA, TEX, and CHC will always sign the best talent based on how deep the wallets of their owners are. This also tells you that the teams like TOR, MTL, DET, TB, MIL and others will never be in the playoffs again.

    Now I am a major LEAF fan and I will absolutely be the first to say that the LEAFS are one of the handful teams that are responsible for the salaries to spirral upwards over the last 2 decades. But enough is enough !!!! I am sick and tired of marginal players like Reichel or Belak making millions of dollars.

    Their needs to be some cap in place and I will be satisfied with no hockey as long as the end result is a cap.
     
  18. HckyFght*

    HckyFght* Guest

    Actually, yes you can. The agreement with the NHLPA will have expired, and all the league has to do to continue operating is declare negotiations at an impasse. It would be hard to argue, since the league has been trying to renegotiate for more than a year, that they are not at an impasse already.

    -HckyFght
     
  19. Bruwinz37

    Bruwinz37 Registered User

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    They cant do that until the start of next season October, 2005.

    Did you write that column?
     
  20. Licentia

    Licentia Registered User

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    `
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2004
  21. capman29

    capman29 Guest

    First the yankees do not care about the tax because it is a small persentage. Make it dollr for dollar and the yankees would havce a 300 million salary structure much diferent than the 190 they have now.

    Players are greedy,ten want re the owner saints? You cannot see or worse you do not want to see that it is the owners that took this actin not to win points but to break the union. If the owners were serius about resolving this mess they would come to the table and bargain in goos faith to get a new CBA. But no they wont and people like you cannot see past your own hatred of players makong very good money for playing a game you can only dream about playing. Put that hatred aside and look at the picture from both sides and it becomes easy to find the solution . That solutin is one that neither side wants but can live wit. See how easy problem resolution is when you look at the problem from all sides.
     
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