Also just mentioning, because I'm not sure how many are aware, though they may not agree with it, but Lemieux's adj. playoff points per game is identical to Gretzky's. Also Lemieux never got to play any playoff games the first few years of his prime. Just two things worth mentioning, although as seen I still rank Gretzky number 1, just stating there isn't a huge difference between the two in the playoffs just as there wasn't in the regular season.
Your top 10 playoff performers of all-time
- Thread starter Big Phil
- Start date
Sens Rule
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2005
- 21,251
- 74
I disagree. Gretzky is superior in the playoffs compared to the regular season. Even after Gretzky had declined a lot on the Rangers he had that HUGE 10 goal 20 point playoff. Gretzky was BETTER in the playoffs and in big international games than he was in the regular season and we know how good he was in the regular season.
In 1993 playoffs Gretzky who had declined in the regular season the seasons before that and after that had lightening in the bottle and was his mid 80's self, leading a far weaker team to the finals.
Mario was great in the playoffs of course but Mario is a lot closer to Gretzky based on regular season performance than he is based on playoff performance. Mario has those 2 finals years where he dominated, he was good other years of course but Gretzky has SIX years where he was a freak on nature in the playoffs. Leading his team to the final. And other years where he was unbelievable in less playoff rounds.
Gretzky is like Michael Jordan. As good as he was, being the best in the regular season he was that much better in the playoffs.
To me you can have an argument among the top 4 players Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Mario as to who was better. If you ONLY consider playoffs it is clear that Gretzky was the best playoff player. IMO there is not really even the possibility of a legitimate debate against Gretzky as the best playoff and big game best on best performer.
LeBlondeDemon10
Registered User
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
- 18,074
- 12,730
I find that Lemieux is generally underrated when it comes to playoff performers. It probably has to do with the problem of people often basing playoff performers based on how they compared to their own regular season performances as opposed to how they compared to other players' playoff performances. Orr is often underrated as a playoff performer for the same reason.
Crosbyfan
Registered User
- Nov 27, 2003
- 12,667
- 2,489
Never beat Montreal once even when favoured
Obviously knee problems
Played a shortened career in an era more conducive to high scoring against diluted competition, which lead to problems in the playoffs against tougher team defence (Montreal again)
Poor team discipline. Questionable coaching.
Still a great playoff performer overall, but not top 10 IMO, though I have no doubt he had the talent to become #1 if he had stayed injury free.
Hard to argue Pronger over Potvin but there will have to be room for Lidstrom somewhere in my top 10.
personally i would break down forwards, Dmen and Gaolies and maybe even some for era as it's really hard comparing guys from the 06 to 1990's
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
- 31,703
- 4,146
Lemieux had some hot and cold moments. Drury is most known for game winning goals but he only has 88 career playoff points in 130 games. Those numbers aren't good enough. Ranford has 1990 and that's pretty much it when it comes to clutch play
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
Gotta give love to Marty Barry. In an era when most top scores saw their PPG go down around 25% in the post season, his went up.
And shocked, SHOCKED, that I am the first to mention Ted Kennedy.
And they never would have won in round one without Sakic.
And shocked, SHOCKED, that I am the first to mention Ted Kennedy.
And they never would have won in round one without Sakic.
I don't think they would have without Forsberg either (he had six points in those series while Sakic had seven).
That's only because the raw stats say so IMO. Once again, I think you have to give the edge to Gretzky over everyone, but either some of Lemieux's playoff performances were more dominant than raw stats indicate, or some of his playoff performances weren't as bad as raw stats indicate, I'm guessing a bit of both.
Darrelle Lundqvist
Swagelin
Blizzard
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2010
- 347
- 1
Shouldn't every list be at least half goaltenders?
Hard to have a top ten list and it not be goaltender laden. Like an NFL quarterback they are in the most critical position of determining the outcome of a game and/or series.
If we are talking just skaters then all very good lists with hair splitting between some players who get on and who gets left off.
Billy Smith, Bernie Parent, Grant Fuhr and several others who have won multiple championships definitely deserve a better look than they are getting. Somewhat amazing to see only two or three goaltenders mentioned amongst the 25 or so players I've seen on these lists.
Hard to have a top ten list and it not be goaltender laden. Like an NFL quarterback they are in the most critical position of determining the outcome of a game and/or series.
If we are talking just skaters then all very good lists with hair splitting between some players who get on and who gets left off.
Billy Smith, Bernie Parent, Grant Fuhr and several others who have won multiple championships definitely deserve a better look than they are getting. Somewhat amazing to see only two or three goaltenders mentioned amongst the 25 or so players I've seen on these lists.
Last edited:
I for one think that we should have a separate list for goalies and maybe split Dmen and forwards to.
Bernie Parent has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread and I really have to scratch my head with that one.
Yes he was great in those 2 cup drives but only has 38 playoff wins to his 33 losses.
Other than the 6 shutouts in his 2 cup years he has zero in his other 39 playoff games.
It's pretty had to argue that he was even any better than 3rd in the playoffs among goalies in the time period he played in. (I only took the time frame from Parent's 1st to last playoff seasons).
http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=games_played
Blizzard
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2010
- 347
- 1
You may be right with Parent was just throwing out multiple Cup winners. Didn't mean to infer he belonged on the list just that him and definitely Smith and Fuhr who have more rings deserve a better fate in these type of discussions. I'm sure there are others I didn't mention who should also be considered.
Goalies are the toughest to decide on and should be on separate lists. both Smith and Fuhr were great playoff performers but how would we treat them if they had played on say Detroit in the late 70's and early 80's?
Blizzard
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2010
- 347
- 1
Legitimate argument but couldn't we say the same for Gretzky without Coffey, Messier, Kurri, Fuhr? Are his numbers as good if he plays with Detroit of the late 70's? Or are they even in the playoffs?
I guess a better way to look at it would be does Edmonton and the Isles win the Cups they did with some of the average to below average netminders in the league at the time?
And I definitely agree with you about seperate lists for positions.
Last edited:
Sens Rule
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2005
- 21,251
- 74
I was not saying Mario playoff performances were not dominant. And I don't care about stats. Gretzky WAS dominant and better in the playoffs than he was in the regular season EVERY PLAYOFFS. He was such a great performer in big games. PPG is a relatively pointless measure. Mario did not lift strong Penguin teams to the final more than twice. Gretzky lifted a weaker LA team to the final after he was passed his prime and no longer the same player, except he became that Gretzky of 1985 again that year come playoff time.
Last edited:
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
- 18,074
- 12,730
Other than Dryden who would you argue was above Parent in the playoffs during the 70s?
Well it's hard to tell with most players but Wayne in 81 when he had 21 points in 9 games here's how some of the other guys in Edmonton did.
Anderson and Kurri both had 12, Coffey and Messier each had 7 points.
Even in his last playoffs in NYR he did the same thing again. Wayne is slam dunk the top playoff guy ever and by quite a bit too.
Blizzard
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2010
- 347
- 1
Wouldn't disagree about Gretzky but goaltenders don't seem to get the same freedom to "play with any team" and have their numbers carry over. Gretzky is without a doubt capable but no matter your "greatness" it's near impossible for one guy to carry a team except for the goaltending position.
Gretzky would probably top the list regardless but still feel the goaltenders get slighted in these conversations.
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
That may be so, but having watched the series, Sakic was the clear stand out performer and game changer.
Wow, nearly 2 pages of the best playoff performers of all time and not one mention of Billy Smith. So I'll mention him.
Billy Smith
Billy Smith
Beat me to it
And Brian Noonan
(all relative to their regular-season outputs, of course)
colorado would have lost in the 2nd round if not for forsberg. sakic missed 3 games of 7 vs LAK (only played 3 minutes of game 3), scored 2p and was -3. forsberg scored 8p and was +4, even though LAK, mainly norstrom, miller and boucher, were extremely physical on him, basically mauling him every game.
that forsberg usually drew the top defenders also needs to be considered. forsberg probably would have scored more in '96 and sakic probably less if fyodorov and konstantinov were used to check sakic rather than forsberg. i would never say forsberg was better than sakic in '96, though.
franzen has never even been his team's best F in any playoff. and only playoff where he was 2nd best F was '09. should never be ranked above zetterberg.
