Your Thoughts on Kopi's Extension

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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See above.

I think you missed my point, as well as RP. Seeing Kopi in a Vancouver uniform is the most obscene thing I could think of. I would sour on the ****ing NHL so fast it would be blinding.

I think watching Kopitar get 50 points a season on a soft as Charmin Vancouver team, all while collecting $12M AAV from them, would be hilarious.
 

Winger23

Registered User
May 3, 2007
5,759
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I think watching Kopitar get 50 points a season on a soft as Charmin Vancouver team, all while collecting $12M AAV from them, would be hilarious.

The joke here is you think he can only score 50 points on a non defensive minded team...
 

TopT

Registered User
Jan 7, 2009
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Georgetown, Caymans
HYORI 1963;112336927[B said:
]Meh, if Carter were given the 1C linemates, responsibilities, and TOI, he MAY do just as well.[/B] Carter's a very good two way forward, who often gets overlooked, because of Kopi. To me, Carter is just as important to the kings as Kopi is. Who knows, with almost 50% less cap hit, he MAY be more valuable than Kopi.

They tried that in Philly and Columbus
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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It's funny how those of you that are the most critical of anyone that doesn't go along with your, "Pay Kopitar whatever he wants." position have never posted a damn thing in the form of facts, or reason based opinion on the subject.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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Just curious but, Kopi doesn't get what he wants, doesn't sign with the Kings, who will replace him? And what does that tell the young guys? Work hard, lead the team in points, win two cups, and then walk? Kopitar wants to play for the Kings, he wants to get paid for his past, current, and future accomplishments. Do we say F off Kopi, we want people produce more and earn less. Some of you guys sound like Sears and Safeway share holders. Who will want to go to a team that won't pay them for what they do?

Do some of you seriously expect Kopitar to start playing like Trevor Lewis now that he has his big contract??

No one opposed to the contract seems to be able to answer that question, never mind the message it sends not only to free agents but all the current Kings players.

I think watching Kopitar get 50 points a season on a soft as Charmin Vancouver team, all while collecting $12M AAV from them, would be hilarious.

So we let someone else overpay for Kopi then we just have a huge gaping hole at 1C but we have money to throw at (and overpay for) a lesser free agent to HOPEFULLY stay semi-competitive when really without Kopi we're more likely to be in a blackhole.

Seriously, again, what's the alternative? We paid him, that's one scenario--another was trade him, another was let him walk. Why are the last two preferable?
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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It's funny how those of you that are the most critical of anyone that doesn't go along with your, "Pay Kopitar whatever he wants." position have never posted a damn thing in the form of facts, or reason based opinion on the subject.

Literally no one has said that. Stop with the hyperbole. Your opposition is just criticizing your lack of (good) alternatives.
 

The Pale King

Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
Sep 24, 2011
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They tried that in Philly and Columbus

I agree that Carter isn't quite on Kopi's level, but he did pretty **** well as the top guy in Philly. Cup Finalist with a Leighton-Boucher tandem in net is nothing to sneeze at.

I probably should have chose other for the poll section. It's a deal that had to be done. How far away is Kempe from being NHL ready? And Mersch has looked good to me so far. Mersch especially could be a Lucic replacement in a pinch. He seems to have a nose for the net, and he's provided some effective screens as well. Obviously not as good as Looch right out of the gates, but as others have posted, you can't have everything you want in a cap era.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
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Literally no one has said that. Stop with the hyperbole. Your opposition is just criticizing your lack of (good) alternatives.

Yes, at least one has. I don't think there was a good alternative for Dean in this mess.

Kopitar was the only person with the ability to make a choice that would have helped the situation, and he didn't do it. So, now he better perform.
 

Stimpythecat

Registered User
Jul 1, 2015
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It's higher than I would have liked to see. I'd have prefered in the $9 - $9.5 range.

Is he worth more than 9ish - yes. I was just hoping to see a lower number.


Edit: DL had no choice. All the other personnel moves were made assuming kopi was on the kings. The team is in win now mode and without kopi, the team doesn't contend.
 

Legionnaire

Help On The Way
Jul 10, 2002
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Hmm, I'm not sure about that. Seems like we are a good team the way with the way that kopitar currently plays. He generates a lot of shots for his teammates. Its Not like the kings aren't shooting when he's on the ice. I think Kopi needs to be a dominant 2 way center for our team to be successful.

He can still be a dominant 2-way center while scoring goals; he did it for years before Gaborik. Kopitar shooting and scoring more makes it tougher on the goaltender. There have been games where I have seen goalies cheat to Gaborik's side because they knew Kopi was thinking pass. It is the same thing with players like Getzlaf, Thornton, and Forsberg. Yes, they are great at what they do but even more effective when they can keep the goalie guessing by shooting.

This could be said of every team to ever play in the NHL. That doesn't mean you change anything. We have a core that has been very successful in the playoffs and is having a franchise best regular season. Stay the course.


There is still a lot of hockey left to be played and the Pacific is a lot closer than you think. We only have an 8 point lead and that is only four wins, a cold streak.

We do need to improve, and Kopitar scoring could play a huge part in that. Champions don't rest on their laurels, they constantly strive to be better.

We missed the playoffs last year by three points and Anze Kopitar scoring more that 16 goals likely would have seen us in.
 

PJ Kings Hockey

Registered User
Oct 15, 2013
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It's higher than I would have liked to see. I'd have prefered in the $9 - $9.5 range.

Is he worth more than 9ish - yes. I was just hoping to see a lower number.


Edit: DL had no choice. All the other personnel moves were made assuming kopi was on the kings. The team is in win now mode and without kopi, the team doesn't contend.

He can still be a dominant 2-way center while scoring goals; he did it for years before Gaborik. Kopitar shooting and scoring more makes it tougher on the goaltender. There have been games where I have seen goalies cheat to Gaborik's side because they knew Kopi was thinking pass. It is the same thing with players like Getzlaf, Thornton, and Forsberg. Yes, they are great at what they do but even more effective when they can keep the goalie guessing by shooting.




There is still a lot of hockey left to be played and the Pacific is a lot closer than you think. We only have an 8 point lead and that is only four wins, a cold streak.

We do need to improve, and Kopitar scoring could play a huge part in that. Champions don't rest on their laurels, they constantly strive to be better.

We missed the playoffs last year by three points and Anze Kopitar scoring more that 16 goals likely would have seen us in.

Well said.
 

SettlementRichie10

Registered User
May 6, 2012
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Not overly thrilled. But the market was set, and losing Kopitar would have planted us firmly in black hole territory well through Doughty and Muzzin's prime. Dean wants another cup. So do I. Keeping Kopitar is the only way to do that.
 

kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Mar 18, 2002
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Manitoba, Canada
He isn't going to score 70 points on any team in three or four years.

Says you. Put him on a more offensive team and he easily could be a point per game guy for several years. I still say a good comparable is Joe Thornton and he was a 70 point guy until he was 34. This year he's on pace for 65 over 82 games so hardly off the pace even now at 36.

There is still a lot of hockey left to be played and the Pacific is a lot closer than you think. We only have an 8 point lead and that is only four wins, a cold streak.

We do need to improve, and Kopitar scoring could play a huge part in that. Champions don't rest on their laurels, they constantly strive to be better.

We missed the playoffs last year by three points and Anze Kopitar scoring more that 16 goals likely would have seen us in.

That's one way to look at it. The other way would be to note only one other team -Washington- has a bigger divisional lead than us and we are 4th overall with games in hand in all the teams ahead of us. We are kicking ass, tinker with this team is just dumb.
 

Herby

Now I can die in peace
Feb 27, 2002
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I disagree with K17 on this one, but I do respect him for sticking to his guns, he was critical of the contracts handed out by others and was critical of this one.
 
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T2M

Registered User
Jan 28, 2004
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0
I like the deal, if only because I see the whole thing falling apart without Kopitar. I'm still bitten by what happened in 2002 when the entire LAPD line went down and basically disrupted the entire organization for about 8 years. With Kopitar locked up long term the team has stability to continue its run of development. I remember what losing Jason Allison (along with Palffy and Deadmarsh) did to the organization before the salary cap era. We were lost in the wilderness until drafting and developing Kopitar who, frankly, could have become an elite offensive center without much clue about playing in his own zone. The fact that Kopitar is regularly mentioned in Selke talk while being in the same points range as media darlings like Toews and Bergeron is astounding (and, let's be frank, if Kopitar could wear a Canadian or USA jersey in international play and had a name like John Smith he'd get way more attention and we may not be arguing his value quite so rigorously--just look at the way that Toews and Bergeron get "leadership" credit while Kopitar doesn't). If we go back to the 2005 draft and you tell us we'd get an almost career ppg scoring, 6'4 230 pound center who'll miss only 27 games in his career, lead us to 2 cups, and become an outstanding two-way player by selflessly sacrificing his offensive numbers for victory early in his career we'd laugh our way to the bank. Which is, ironically, what Kopitar just did. He earned that money because he is absolutely indispensable to the team. He cannot be replaced. The only replacements are Toews and Bergeron and they're not going anywhere. Neither is Kopitar. Quick and Doughty are also indispensable, but let's be perfectly honest, right now is Kopitar's time and he took advantage of it. He's earning what the market says he's worth in this era. I think the question we should ask is this: If Kopitar left would you pay $10 million/season for the next 8 years to replace the hole? I would and think it was a bargain.

In the long term perspective we now have 8 years to identify and cultivate a talent to eventually take over Kopitar's role on the team. The challenge for the scouting staff is to find a player somewhere in the later rounds who can eventually become that number 1 two-way player. They need to do what the Red Wings did by replacing Yzerman and Fedorov with Datsuyk and Zetterberg. That's what added an extra decade to that dynasty. The Kings can do it, but the entire incubation system for forwards that lets us leave players in the minors for 2 years and break them in at the NHL level for 2 years before expecting them to really step up is facilitated by the 1A/1B of Kopitar and Carter, which for $16 million/season is a real bargain for both the short and long terms. It will, hopefully, allow our development team to develop an infrastructure that enables a young centerman in 5 or 6 years to "burst onto the scene" after slow development and then they can grow with Kopitar's example and mentorship to guide them. That is what happened with Datsuyk and Zetterberg who were both seen to be flawed on draft day and could have been ruined by rushing them, but they were given time to develop in the minors and on the lower lines while learning from 2 hall of famers. That's the model the Kings have to go for now and the Kopitar contract gives them the infrastructure to facilitate it. I have no problem paying for Kopitar because he's a generational player and leadership. He and Toews are this generation's players of Yzerman and Sackic quality. Those players are, as another poster said, signed at high dollar values, played for one franchise their entire careers, and had their jerseys in the rafters--and those teams and their fans would have paid every single penny to make sure it happened. We have 3 of those players--Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. Will we have to pay for them? Yes. Will we do it because the option of not having them is infinitely worse? Yes. I can live with that reality no matter what it does to team salary structure.
 

Asheru

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
653
7
It's funny how those of you that are the most critical of anyone that doesn't go along with your, "Pay Kopitar whatever he wants." position have never posted a damn thing in the form of facts, or reason based opinion on the subject.

I'm sorry, but what's your basis for this claim?

As far as I recall, I have seen you dismiss some pretty detailed and well-supported arguments about how important Kopitar is to the Kings, and how difficult it would be to replace him, with some weak counter arguments in return. You have also claimed Kopitar is not really the Kings' most consistent forward, despite all evidence to the contrary (leading scorer for the last 8 seasons isn't enough?). I've also seen you make some pretty sweeping claims, which I would like to see you support.

There was your theory that a "one GM revolution" could radically change the landscape of player salaries, if he simply took a stand and said no. Has demand for top end talent not always outstripped supply in the past? Why wouldn't the other 29 GMs step up and pay for it? How does the revolution happen then? How does any GM get to ignore market realities?

There was your theory that all 30 GMs became deluded about future salary cap projections about 3-4 years ago. What's your evidence for that?

There was your theory that Kopitar could have been traded mid-season for the likes of 5'10" LW Tatar or 5'11" RW Nyquist and the Kings would still remain competitive. (What???)

There was also your theory that Kopitar's possession stats prove he is in decline as a 5v5 player. I'll save you the trouble of trying to misinterpret iCorsi again here. That's manifestly false.

If you want to put forth your arguments, fine, but claiming you're the only one who has ever cited facts is bizarre to me.
 

Trolfoli

Registered User
May 30, 2013
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I am impressed with the continued *****ing about Kopitar across multiple threads. Some people really just don't get it and probably never will. At least it's entertaining.

Really 10-8.5=1.5... for 1.5M "overpay" the Kings should start looking for a new 1C. :shakehead

I'm looking forward to the Kings making the playoffs with Kopitar leading the way.
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,320
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I'm sorry, but what's your basis for this claim?

As far as I recall, I have seen you dismiss some pretty detailed and well-supported arguments about how important Kopitar is to the Kings, and how difficult it would be to replace him, with some weak counter arguments in return. You have also claimed Kopitar is not really the Kings' most consistent forward, despite all evidence to the contrary (leading scorer for the last 8 seasons isn't enough?). I've also seen you make some pretty sweeping claims, which I would like to see you support.

There was your theory that a "one GM revolution" could radically change the landscape of player salaries, if he simply took a stand and said no. Has demand for top end talent not always outstripped supply in the past? Why wouldn't the other 29 GMs step up and pay for it? How does the revolution happen then? How does any GM get to ignore market realities?

There was your theory that all 30 GMs became deluded about future salary cap projections about 3-4 years ago. What's your evidence for that?

There was your theory that Kopitar could have been traded mid-season for the likes of 5'10" LW Tatar or 5'11" RW Nyquist and the Kings would still remain competitive. (What???)

There was also your theory that Kopitar's possession stats prove he is in decline as a 5v5 player. I'll save you the trouble of trying to misinterpret iCorsi again here. That's manifestly false.

If you want to put forth your arguments, fine, but claiming you're the only one who has ever cited facts is bizarre to me.

Try reading it again:

It's funny how those of you that are the most critical of anyone that doesn't go along with your, "Pay Kopitar whatever he wants." position have never posted a damn thing in the form of facts, or reason based opinion on the subject.

I won't quibble with you about the rest, because almost all of it is out of context or is missing what I actually said.
 

kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Mar 18, 2002
13,384
1,032
Manitoba, Canada
I am impressed with the continued *****ing about Kopitar across multiple threads. Some people really just don't get it and probably never will. At least it's entertaining.

Really 10-8.5=1.5... for 1.5M "overpay" the Kings should start looking for a new 1C. :shakehead

I'm looking forward to the Kings making the playoffs with Kopitar leading the way.

Yep. Basically if we replace Kyle Clifford with Justin Auger or Andy Andy we've off-set much of that. And while I hate to see Cliffy go or throw in a raw rookie -or whatever Andy Andy is- it's hardly enough of a downgrade to warrant letting Kopitar go. Not to mention while the cap isn't increasing much, it is increasing enough to allow us to bring in a Cliffy-type in a season or two anyway.

The real focus of the *****capades should go towards what our captain is making in relation to his production. People worried about how bad Kopitar's contract will look in five years while we have an even worse example of dead cap space playing every night.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
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Try reading it again:



I won't quibble with you about the rest, because almost all of it is out of context or is missing what I actually said.

Yet you still didn't answer the questions, and went back to your shotgun statement.
 

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