Your Thought On Kostitsyn

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Vlad The Impaler

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CREW99AW said:
I got his point that Kostitsyn won't be a 3rd or 4th liner,that he has to play with skilled players,not grinders or muckers.I agreed with that point.

I do not agree that the kid's a boom or bust prospect.Some of the scouting reports have said he could develop into a 40+ goal scorer if he reaches his top potential.My argument is that if he instead of becoming a 40+ goal scorer,he instead becomes a 25 goal scorer,he won't have reached the potential some scouts projected,but he will still be contributing,playing in the nhl.How is that boom or bust.

It's a question of semantics. Most NHL prospects are by definition potential bust because most of them are definitly not certainties to reach the NHL. In the case of Kostitsyn, the fact he might have trouble recycling his game on a lower line, coupled with the fact he definitly has enough talent to "boom" warrants the boom or bust label.

This guy is obviously very talented. You seem to agree with that fact. Unless you think he can't fail to make the NHL, I think he fits the description.

Having said that, one thing I disagree with is that his future absolutely HAS to be on a scoring lines. This has been widespread and while I agree his most likely future should be on a scoring line, he wouldn't be the first skilled player to translate into a checker somewhere down the line. He has ample speed and is a strong guy too. With some work (and the right attitude) a guy like him could be an excellent checker and penalty killer, for instance. So I do think there is a remote possibility he might make the NHL on a 3rd line. He seems to have some guts, has the size and speed. Needs to have a better understanding of what goes on on the ice, though.
 

417

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Vlad The Impaler said:
It's a question of semantics. Most NHL prospects are by definition potential bust because most of them are definitly not certainties to reach the NHL. In the case of Kostitsyn, the fact he might have trouble recycling his game on a lower line, coupled with the fact he definitly has enough talent to "boom" warrants the boom or bust label.

This guy is obviously very talented. You seem to agree with that fact. Unless you think he can't fail to make the NHL, I think he fits the description.

Having said that, one thing I disagree with is that his future absolutely HAS to be on a scoring lines. This has been widespread and while I agree his most likely future should be on a scoring line, he wouldn't be the first skilled player to translate into a checker somewhere down the line. He has ample speed and is a strong guy too. With some work (and the right attitude) a guy like him could be an excellent checker and penalty killer, for instance. So I do think there is a remote possibility he might make the NHL on a 3rd line. He seems to have some guts, has the size and speed. Needs to have a better understanding of what goes on on the ice, though.


When you say, he needs to have a better understanding of what goes on, on the ice, wouldn't you say that would come with time, I mean, he is 19yrs old, I won't get into all the adjustements he's had to make since he's arrived in NA, but don't you think you, and alot of posters, are a bit too hard on him?
 

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Dark Metamorphosis said:
is the term 'project' a better description than 'boom or bust' then?

I think so, before he came to NA, the only concerns about Kostitsyn were...

1.Health issues-these have been taken care of, as he's on the proper medication now and hasn't had any issues since he's come over to NA

2.Defensive play-Doug Jarvis has constantly worked with him, to the point where he's no longer oblivious in the defensive zone, of course, I imagine he'll never be a defensive stalwart, but he's gotten progressively better at it...

3.Size-When Kostitsyn was drafted, he was listed as 6"0 189lbs (some sites even say 183lbs) everyone including myself was surprised when he showed up at the rookie tournament 1 inch taller and 20lbs heavier, he's now up to 6'1 208lbs, and is solid as a rock, i seen him myself at that tournament, and he looked very thick

He's worked on all 3 of those concerns, yet some still question his potential, and I can't understand that, I understand that prospects aren't an exact science, but I think he deserves a bit more props around here
 

Freaky Habs Fan

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Vlad The Impaler said:
It's a question of semantics. Most NHL prospects are by definition potential bust because most of them are definitly not certainties to reach the NHL. In the case of Kostitsyn, the fact he might have trouble recycling his game on a lower line, coupled with the fact he definitly has enough talent to "boom" warrants the boom or bust label.

This guy is obviously very talented. You seem to agree with that fact. Unless you think he can't fail to make the NHL, I think he fits the description.

Having said that, one thing I disagree with is that his future absolutely HAS to be on a scoring lines. This has been widespread and while I agree his most likely future should be on a scoring line, he wouldn't be the first skilled player to translate into a checker somewhere down the line. He has ample speed and is a strong guy too. With some work (and the right attitude) a guy like him could be an excellent checker and penalty killer, for instance. So I do think there is a remote possibility he might make the NHL on a 3rd line. He seems to have some guts, has the size and speed. Needs to have a better understanding of what goes on on the ice, though.


:handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

You're right on the fact that he can make it on a third line. Niklas Sundstrom...was drafted as a scroring foward and is now a checker. Kostitsyn is more talented than him and will surely be able to make it on the top two line but if not, he could be a decent checker for sure.

And one of the reason that he didn't make it to the RSL is because he was having his health concern. He wasn't taking the right medication for his epileptic problem so that was a major concern for him and his coach. Since he came in Montreal, he 100% O.K. with his health.
 

bruins4777*

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I think so, before he came to NA, the only concerns about Kostitsyn were...

1.Health issues-these have been taken care of, as he's on the proper medication now and hasn't had any issues since he's come over to NA

2.Defensive play-Doug Jarvis has constantly worked with him, to the point where he's no longer oblivious in the defensive zone, of course, I imagine he'll never be a defensive stalwart, but he's gotten progressively better at it...

3.Size-When Kostitsyn was drafted, he was listed as 6"0 189lbs (some sites even say 183lbs) everyone including myself was surprised when he showed up at the rookie tournament 1 inch taller and 20lbs heavier, he's now up to 6'1 208lbs, and is solid as a rock, i seen him myself at that tournament, and he looked very thick

He's worked on all 3 of those concerns, yet some still question his potential, and I can't understand that, I understand that prospects aren't an exact science, but I think he deserves a bit more props around here
I'll try and be fair here, even though i hate the kid's guts.
1.Health, well see the thing is something like epilepsy won't just "go away", there are still question marks, but however you are mostly correct that people do blow this out of proprotion
2.defensive play, yes he's been worked on but its barely sufficient and streaky for the AHL imagine what it would do in the NHL. Kovalchuk's defense has improved, but he still has a LONG way to go. Just cause he's improving at the AHL level doesn't mean he'll be fine rest of the way.
3. I never questioned his size....
Overall a big reason i think people are still questioning his potential is because while he has stepped up in many regards, he still hasn't improved to an outstanding degree. Note the fact that his offense is slipping is another thing. I won't call him a bust, because players struggle at various levels many times only to bounce back and dominate, but many times in hamilton when he's not producing offensively or at least making a presence he is truly useless. He might not be a true huge bust anymore, but he'll turn into a jeff friesen or valeri bure who are great when scoring and look like top tier players, but when not scoring they are invisible and may not neccesarily "hurt" their team, but won't do anything for their team and take up space.

My personal opinion, trying to take away my personal bias...
 

Habitantpeasoup

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again from the habs board:

Now from the Hockey News

http://www.forecaster.ca/hockeynews...20041231#s37787


Quote:
No man is an army, especially not when it comes to a team sport such as hockey. However, every once in a while one player can single-handedly mean the difference between winning and losing. This past Wednesday at the 2005 WJC in Grand Forks, North Dakota was one of those precious moments, as winger Andrei Kostitsyn--drafted 10th overall by Montreal in the 2003 NHL Entry Draft--put on a clinic of dominant proportions as Belarus has once again stunned the hockey world by knocking off Team USA, 5-3, in round-robin action. Surprise starter Stepan Goryachevskikh made 39 saves to preserve the historic upset for Belarus. Almost three years ago, the Belarusians shocked the Swedes 4-3 in the quarter-final round at the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City (helped in part by a 70-foot shot that infamously got past Swedenâs Tommy Salo). At the 2005 WJC, Belarus struck again.
 

Freaky Habs Fan

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Dark Metamorphosis said:
who would most people take right now : kostitsyn or radulov?

Kost easily. Radulov can become a great player but Kostitsyn can become a hell of a player. IMO, he will be a more complete player...he's stronger on the puck, he hit like a train for his size and he have a great shot arsenal. Radulov will be a sniper.
 
West said:
I've watched a few Bulldog games this year and been not at all impressed with what he's done. It's his first year in the league and many players have developed very nicely in the AHL after having less than stellar first season's.

I've only seen him in play for the Bulldogs and the WJC a few years back, but looking at his stat's over that period he looks like a player who just had a really WJC and hasn't done anything else. Personnally if I was to redo the draft I don't think that he'd make my top 20.


Ok now lets say you are 19 and are asked to move to Russia and you have no idea how to speak the language and you know nobody. Will you be comfortable right away in what ever you do? I do not think so.

Now in Hamilton Kostitsyn is being asked to play the full game meaning haveing defensive responsiblities and also knowing how to play without the puck. The team is not worried about his offense you can't teach you have or you don't but they want him to be responsible on the ice and that you can teach.

Right now Hamilton is his class room and he is being asked to learn certain asspects of the game so he can become a better player.
 

KILLger

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Mike The Wall said:
Ok now lets say you are 19 and are asked to move to Russia and you have no idea how to speak the language and you know nobody. Will you be comfortable right away in what ever you do? I do not think so.

Now in Hamilton Kostitsyn is being asked to play the full game meaning haveing defensive responsiblities and also knowing how to play without the puck. The team is not worried about his offense you can't teach you have or you don't but they want him to be responsible on the ice and that you can teach.

Right now Hamilton is his class room and he is being asked to learn certain asspects of the game so he can become a better player.

Radulov left Russia at 18 for a french speaking region... (I think)
 
bruins4777 said:
I'll try and be fair here, even though i hate the kid's guts.
1.Health, well see the thing is something like epilepsy won't just "go away", there are still question marks, but however you are mostly correct that people do blow this out of proprotion
2.defensive play, yes he's been worked on but its barely sufficient and streaky for the AHL imagine what it would do in the NHL. Kovalchuk's defense has improved, but he still has a LONG way to go. Just cause he's improving at the AHL level doesn't mean he'll be fine rest of the way.
3. I never questioned his size....
Overall a big reason i think people are still questioning his potential is because while he has stepped up in many regards, he still hasn't improved to an outstanding degree. Note the fact that his offense is slipping is another thing. I won't call him a bust, because players struggle at various levels many times only to bounce back and dominate, but many times in hamilton when he's not producing offensively or at least making a presence he is truly useless. He might not be a true huge bust anymore, but he'll turn into a jeff friesen or valeri bure who are great when scoring and look like top tier players, but when not scoring they are invisible and may not neccesarily "hurt" their team, but won't do anything for their team and take up space.

My personal opinion, trying to take away my personal bias...


That was a nice write up but may I ask why you hate his guts?
 

Rich09

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Is it KAstitsyn or KOstitsyn?? He asked to have Kostitsyn in the habs camp but he had Kastitsyn in the WJHC.
 

West

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Sakuuuuu said:
And since coming to Hamilton, he has played fine. Yes, there were alot of expectations on him, and he struggled somewhat to produce at first, but his defensive game has improved immensely and he was beginning to light it up before leaving for this year's World Juniors.

He's played OK for a rookie. His defense hasn't been pretty good which is a big improvement over how most people would describe it a year ago. I've seen him play a few times for the Bulldog's and after watching the games I did was surprised to learn he had 9 pts in 30 gms which is ok for a rookie. Also I'll grant the fact that many players are forced to learn the defensive side of the game before they get the oppurtunity to take chances offensively (which is usually a good thing) so he could quite possibly have a break out second year or even second half.

I'll still stand by the not in my top 20 at this point.

Top Ten in no particular order....
Marc-Andre Fleury
Eric Staal
Nathan Horton
Nikolai Zherdev
Thomas Vanek
Ryan Suter
Dion Phaneuf
Zach Parise
Ryan Kesler
Patrice Bergeron

Definitely before Kostitsyn but not top ten in no particular order...

Brent Burns
Jeff Carter
Dustin Brown
Eric Fehr
Ryan Getzlaf
Igor Mirnov
Shea Weber
Corey Perry

About same level as Kostitsyn in no particular order...

Milan Michalek
Steve Bernier
Corey Locke
Mike Richards
Patrick Eaves
Andrei Kostitsyn
Ryan Stone
Braydon Coburn
Loui Eriksson
Kevin Klein

He could possibly slip into the 19 or 20 if I was to order this but right now probably not.
 

AgentNaslund*

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its kinda unfair to judge him by one game. I saw him play against manatoba Moose. He was invisable. Didnt do anything, Couldnt do anything, the hard forechechking style of the AHL was too rough for him for the first time. Maybe he can adapt to it, but with all the skills he have, he will have no problem at the Pro level. Unlike Dustin Brown and Carter, he has the abilities to be a star, but his downside is, his career can be greatly effected by injuries. But I think he will be fine.

in respond to the guy above, no doubt in my mind, dustin Brown and Carter is above Koynystein, or what ever his name was.
 

Maithz

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AK is an europeean player adapting to NA style , look at Perezhogin last year , the first 40 games is always hard , he doesn't play 18 min per games and he don't play with the best players , he need good playmaker . At the end of the season I hope he will play with Higgins that could be an explosive duo .
 

Crusher20

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AgentNaslund said:
its kinda unfair to judge him by one game. I saw him play against manatoba Moose. He was invisable. Didnt do anything, Couldnt do anything, the hard forechechking style of the AHL was too rough for him for the first time. Maybe he can adapt to it, but with all the skills he have, he will have no problem at the Pro level. Unlike Dustin Brown and Carter, he has the abilities to be a star, but his downside is, his career can be greatly effected by injuries. But I think he will be fine.

in respond to the guy above, no doubt in my mind, dustin Brown and Carter is above Koynystein, or what ever his name was.

this guy is still not ready to play well in the system night after night, and i will agree with you Kost does have some games when he forget what the coach tell him, will be lost out there, i did saw that Kostitsyn i will not deny that and at first i was a little bit scared about that but if people here (hab fans specially) seen his progression, from training camp, to ahl debut to ahl progression to wjc. no need to worry the kid is serious and want to become a good overall player, but he is still raw, has many people said when drafted, but the charcoal seem to age pretty damn fast imo, his talent to hit really surprise me so his work ethic in the ahl and his leadership potential (see belarus) is intriguing.. kostitsyn is young and anyway a lot of people said he would be nhl ready in around 3 years if not more, he is doing way better than the rate projected by no-habs fan. ;)

but hey, its everyones opinion. but in my mind i dont even rank in the top 20.. i think its too early to judge on this, but on natural potential he is right there. still need to see how complete, or incomplete he will become.
 

bruins4777*

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Mike The Wall said:
That was a nice write up but may I ask why you hate his guts?
Kinda dumb reason....but he's a hab and i'm a hardcore bruins fan :P
I use to hate theo, but I started watching him so much i can't help but like the guy. He's so fast and his butterfly and glove are so great. He's such an amazing goaltender.
 

bruins4777*

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West said:
He's played OK for a rookie. His defense hasn't been pretty good which is a big improvement over how most people would describe it a year ago. I've seen him play a few times for the Bulldog's and after watching the games I did was surprised to learn he had 9 pts in 30 gms which is ok for a rookie. Also I'll grant the fact that many players are forced to learn the defensive side of the game before they get the oppurtunity to take chances offensively (which is usually a good thing) so he could quite possibly have a break out second year or even second half.

I'll still stand by the not in my top 20 at this point.

Top Ten in no particular order....
Marc-Andre Fleury
Eric Staal
Nathan Horton
Nikolai Zherdev
Thomas Vanek
Ryan Suter
Dion Phaneuf
Zach Parise
Ryan Kesler
Patrice Bergeron

Definitely before Kostitsyn but not top ten in no particular order...

Brent Burns
Jeff Carter
Dustin Brown
Eric Fehr
Ryan Getzlaf
Igor Mirnov
Shea Weber
Corey Perry

About same level as Kostitsyn in no particular order...

Milan Michalek
Steve Bernier
Corey Locke
Mike Richards
Patrick Eaves
Andrei Kostitsyn
Ryan Stone
Braydon Coburn
Loui Eriksson
Kevin Klein

He could possibly slip into the 19 or 20 if I was to order this but right now probably not.
Considering I don't see Kari Lehtonen in there....i'm REALLY scared. However i agree that, kostisyn is not top 20, maybe 30 to me...Potential wise probably 10 or 15, but in terms of top prospects i'd take definently not top 20

I don't think bergeron is a prospect any more is he?
 

CoupeStanley

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bruins4777 said:
Considering I don't see Kari Lehtonen in there....i'm REALLY scared. However i agree that, kostisyn is not top 20, maybe 30 to me...Potential wise probably 10 or 15, but in terms of top prospects i'd take definently not top 20

I don't think bergeron is a prospect any more is he?

Lehtonen wasnt drafted that year.
 
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