Your Table

[Faterson]

I'll only try and guess the 6 non-playoff teams, in no particular order: Minsk, Vityaz, Spartak, Atlant, Severstaľ, Lokomotiv.

(Alternative for Lokomotiv: CSKA. Bad alternative for Lokomotiv: Slovan.)

 

[cave troll]

It's not about you but about the entire country. I assure you some Italians from northern Italy would bristle at being called "Southern Europeans", but for the country of Italy, that designation is correct.

Like mapmakers from CIA office, you know absoulutely nothing about my county. Separating Slovenia and Croatia into two different regions it's the same like separating Slovakia and Czech republic.

I do believe we're off-topic here, though. Latgale_fan for some reason picked up a 2-month-old remark earlier tonight, but it would be best to leave it at that. I think this thread is about predictions for this season, and I still predict Slovan will make the play-offs.

Ye. Since we're offtopic here is my table:

1.SKA
2.Dynamo
3.Donbass
4.CSKA
5.Lev
6.Medvescak
7.Lokomotiv
8.Dinamo R
9.Atlant
10.Slovan
11.Lokomotiv
12.Severstal
13.Vityaz
14.Dinamo Minsk

 

[SledgeHammer]

Like mapmakers from CIA office, you know absoulutely nothing about my county. Separating Slovenia and Croatia into two different regions it's the same like separating Slovakia and Czech republic.



Ye. Since we're offtopic here is my table:

1.SKA
2.Dynamo
3.Donbass
4.CSKA
5.Lev
6.Medvescak
7.Lokomotiv
8.Dinamo R
9.Atlant
10.Slovan
11.Lokomotiv
12.Severstal
13.Vityaz
14.Dinamo Minsk

And Spartak on 11th i suppose

 

[Namejs]

For me the only Eastern European countries are Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Russia.

Your knowledge of European history and geography is apalling.

In terms of geography (and this is relevant to the topic, particularly in terms of a potential KHL future expansion in Europe and the restructuring of KHL divisions) the Eastern border of Europe goes along the Ural mountain range.

A lot of modern European maps often used in media, schools or, say, on the euro coins are political maps with a huge portion of the geographical Europe (specifically - European Russia) cut off, which creates the illusion that the Baltics are Eastern European or that Ukraine is a far-Eastern-European country. EU =/= Europe.

The Baltics are located to the West of the geographical centre of mainland Europe and their capitals are some of the most northernmost in the world (North of Denmark, Canada, Russia, also Sweden in the case of Estonia).

And in the case of Latvia and Estonia they're most definitely Northern European also in terms of:
a) culture, religion and mentality (Lutheran->modest/frugal/hard working + introvert due to a cold climate/scarcely populated environment and historical socio-economic organization),
b) history and politics (dominated by Vikings during the early Middle Ages and a part of Germany, Sweden or Denmark for the past 700 years until the 20th century), having nothing or very little to do with Eastern Europe until the military occupation by the Soviet Union, which didn't last very long.

[/rant]

 

[tobu]

Your knowledge of European history and geography is apalling.

In terms of geography (and this is relevant to the topic, particularly in terms of a potential KHL future expansion in Europe and the restructuring of KHL divisions) the Eastern border of Europe goes along the Ural mountain range.

A lot of modern European maps often used in media, schools or, say, on the euro coins are political maps with a huge portion of the geographical Europe (specifically - European Russia) cut off, which creates the illusion that the Baltics are Eastern European or that Ukraine is a far-Eastern-European country. EU =/= Europe.

The Baltics are located to the West of the geographical centre of mainland Europe and their capitals are some of the most northernmost in the world (North of Denmark, Canada, Russia, also Sweden in the case of Estonia).

And in the case of Latvia and Estonia they're most definitely Northern European also in terms of:
a) culture, religion and mentality (Lutheran->modest/frugal/hard working + introvert due to a cold climate/scarcely populated environment and historical socio-economic organization),
b) history and politics (dominated by Vikings during the early Middle Ages and a part of Germany, Sweden or Denmark for the past 700 years until the 20th century), having nothing or very little to do with Eastern Europe until the military occupation by the Soviet Union, which didn't last very long.

[/rant]

Geographically I'm with you on this, or to be correct I would say Latvia is geographically a central European country. Just to be sure, there are about 7 claimants of the geographical centre of Europe, by most Latvia would be in the centre, by none it would be a western, by four rather outdated claimants it would be eastern.

Either way, when people split up Europe into Western, Central and Eastern countries, they usually think in terms of general clustering. There are not that many European countries east of Latvia (Russia only), while there are maybe 8-10 countries west of Latvia, so I guess you know where I'm heading with this.

 

[Vicente]

Your knowledge of European history and geography is apalling.

In terms of geography (and this is relevant to the topic, particularly in terms of a potential KHL future expansion in Europe and the restructuring of KHL divisions) the Eastern border of Europe goes along the Ural mountain range.

[/rant]

Why is my knowledge appalling? Only because you are not happy with counting to Eastern Europe geographically? Latvia has parts of Russia to the West and to the East. I don't mind though to count the Baltic countries as (Eastern) Central Europe. I also never meant Baltic countries would count as Eastern block or so. It would be weird since you guys are in the EU.

I know that the Baltics (together with Poland and Germany or better said Prussia back in the day) formed some sort of their own sub region. In the middle ages they were dominating the center of Europe.

 

[Vicente]

1. SKA
2. Dynamo
3. CSKA ( a lot worse than I expected )
4. Lev
5. Lokomotiv
6. Severstal
7. Atlant
8. Donbass
9. Dinamo Mn ( I saw them as playoff candidate )
10. Medvescak
11. Slovan
12. Vityaz
13. Spartak ( a lot better than expected )
14. Dinamo Riga ( a lot better than expected )



PPS:

East:

1. Kazan
2. Omsk ( huge disappointment )
3. Chelyabinsk ( huge disappointment )
4. Magnitogorsk
5. Ufa
6. Novosibirsk
7. Nizhny Novgorod
8. Astana ( a lot better than expected )
9. Nizhnekamsk
10. Khanty-Mansiysk
11. Novokuznetsk ( worse than expected )
12. Khabarovsk
13. Yekaterinburg
14. Vladivostok ( a lot better than expected )

 

[Namejs]

Geographically I'm with you on this, or to be correct I would say Latvia is geographically a central European country. Just to be sure, there are about 7 claimants of the geographical centre of Europe, by most Latvia would be in the centre, by none it would be a western, by four rather outdated claimants it would be eastern.

Either way, when people split up Europe into Western, Central and Eastern countries, they usually think in terms of general clustering. There are not that many European countries east of Latvia (Russia only), while there are maybe 8-10 countries west of Latvia, so I guess you know where I'm heading with this.

The West-East split is a remnant of the Cold War, which has nothing to do with geography.

There's North, East, West and South.

Central Europe is a historical term that usually has to do with the spread of German culture and power. Geographically "Central Europe" has pretty much nothing to do with Germany. Maybe a small part of Eastern Germany could be considered Central European.

Latvia is a Northern European country if you'd actually look at the map and ignore your pre-conceived opinions for a second.

Is Denmark Western European? No, it's usually considered to be Northern European. Latvia is to the North of Denmark. How can it be Eastern European? Especially considering that the distance between Denmark and Latvia is the same as from Prague to Kosice, as the crow flies.

The only countries to the West of us at our N latitude are Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Scotland.

So in terms of country clustering we're Northern European as well. Only Santa Claus and Arctic Norway to the North of us. Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Slovakia, Hungary, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece to the South.

 

[Namejs]

Why is my knowledge appalling? Only because you are not happy with counting to Eastern Europe geographically? Latvia has parts of Russia to the West and to the East. I don't mind though to count the Baltic countries as (Eastern) Central Europe. I also never meant Baltic countries would count as Eastern block or so. It would be weird since you guys are in the EU.

I know that the Baltics (together with Poland and Germany or better said Prussia back in the day) formed some sort of their own sub region. In the middle ages they were dominating the center of Europe.

I'm not happy with us being called Eastern European, because we aren't Eastern European.

Your knowledge is pretty bad, because you lack historical, cultural, political and geographical insight into this part of Europe.

In terms of geography I already elaborated my point.

In terms of everything else (history, politics, culture, etc.), it really bothers me that you're calling Prussia "Russian". I can't even put it into words.

It is the the birthplace of the Teutonic Order and the place where Prussia was founded, the force that unified Germany into one (your own country for God's sake!). The Prussian Eagle and most of your national symbols come from there. It's literally the birthplace of one of the founding fathers of liberalism and the Enlightment era: Immanuel Kant. Liberalism, Rationalism and Enlightment is at the core of the Western civilization. And you just call it "Russia".

I would kind of understand if it was an American talking, but Jesus Christ. You're German.

 

[Namejs]

I know that the Baltics (together with Poland and Germany or better said Prussia back in the day) formed some sort of their own sub region. In the middle ages they were dominating the center of Europe.

Sorry for the triple post: we didn't form a sub-region of any sort.

The Lithuanians were dominating the center of Europe. Lithuania later became a part of Poland.

Latvia and Estonia were a part of Germany, Sweden, Denmark the whole time.

Latvia and Estonia have very little in common with Lithuania in terms of history and culture. The border of the Catholic Europe and Protestant Europe goes along the border of Lithuania and Latvia.

 

[RicEsteban85]

Why is it important for the KHL and this discussion whether some microstate perceives itself as northern or eastern? There is only one destinction of Europe the KHL has in mind right now and thats between the "rich west" and the "poor east", because they want the wealthy western sponsors and crowds...

 

[Namejs]

Why is it important for the KHL and this discussion whether some microstate perceives itself as northern or eastern? There is only one destinction of Europe the KHL has in mind right now and thats between the "rich west" and the "poor east", because they want the wealthy western sponsors and crowds...

You don't know anything about the KHL. The KHL is not a business-oriented, honest attempt at creating a European NHL, which could actually rival NHL in time. They don't care about "the West". It's a political project.

The Russian state gas/oil/financial companies are not million or billion-rich. They're trillion-rich. Russia is the biggest oil producing country in the world. The biggest natural gas reserves in the world, etc.

The KHL as a league suffers hundreds of millions of € in losses every year. And yet it doesn't care. KHL is not interested in overexpansion into Western Europe.

That's not to mention that there is no "poor East" or "rich West" anymore. Look at the GDP PPP per capita of some of the larger cities of the "poor East". They're richer than your average West European.

 

[Vicente]

I'm not happy with us being called Eastern European, because we aren't Eastern European.

Your knowledge is pretty bad, because you lack historical, cultural, political and geographical insight into this part of Europe.

In terms of geography I already elaborated my point.

In terms of everything else (history, politics, culture, etc.), it really bothers me that you're calling Prussia "Russian". I can't even put it into words.

It is the the birthplace of the Teutonic Order and the place where Prussia was founded, the force that unified Germany into one (your own country for God's sake!). The Prussian Eagle and most of your national symbols come from there. It's literally the birthplace of one of the founding fathers of liberalism and the Enlightment era: Immanuel Kant. Liberalism, Rationalism and Enlightment is at the core of the Western civilization. And you just call it "Russia".

I would kind of understand if it was an American talking, but Jesus Christ. You're German.

Are you even reading my posts???? Where did I write anything about Russia being Prussia?

I know that the Baltics (together with Poland and Germany or better said Prussia back in the day) formed

I just made a distinction between Prussia and Germany because Germany didn't exist before 1871 and because Prussia was only one of many states within the territory which is now Germany.

In German schools we are taught reading.

And Kalinigrad - which was Prussian/German - is nowadays part of the Russian Federation, like it or not. You seem to mix up a lot of things.

 

[FreshFruit]

I don't recall that Latvia was ever part of Prussia.
Prussia was formed in 1701. by Fredric the III elector of Brandeburg. He transformed 100 year old union of Brandeburg-Prussia into Kingdom of Prussia ( that was possible only because Dutchy of Prussia was not the part of HRE).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg-Prussia

Teutonic Order lost the territory of Latvia in 1525 in favor of Livonian Order and from that point that territory was mosly ruled by The Commonwealth, Sweden or Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teutonic_Knights

Dutchy of Prussia was formed from 1525 and last 'till 1618.
So Latvia was never a part of neither Dutchy of Prussia, Brandeburg Prussia or Kingdom of Prussia.
And to mention that Teutnoic Order was never part of HRE(union of all German dutchies and states, well, most of them - one of the reasons is beacuse Teutonics came in Baltic for Crusade against local heretic population. When they convert the population they stayed there as a counter weight for strong Polish-Lithuanian Union).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Crusade

And I still don't understand that, uhhh we're not Eastern Europe we're Central or West or whatever. Just move us as far away from that Russia.

Noone remembers that Russia also had great scientist, writers and inventions.
Russia was not formed 1917.

 

[Sokil]

correct

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Prussia

just scroll down, the info box has a "today a part of" section

(would have been a huge time saver of research, i know)

 

[Namejs]

Are you even reading my posts???? Where did I write anything about Russia being Prussia?

I know that the Baltics (together with Poland and Germany or better said Prussia back in the day) formed

I just made a distinction between Prussia and Germany because Germany didn't exist before 1871 and because Prussia was only one of many states within the territory which is now Germany.

In German schools we are taught reading.

And Kalinigrad - which was Prussian/German - is nowadays part of the Russian Federation, like it or not. You seem to mix up a lot of things.

I'm not mixing anything up. You said "there's Russia to the West of you, so you are by definition Eastern European".

Calling East Prussia "Russian" is mind-numbingly ridiculous, if we're talking about the regions of Europe in a historical context. And it's a ludicrous argument by itself.

 

[Vicente]

I'm not mixing anything up. You said "there's Russia to the West of you, so you are by definition Eastern European".

Calling East Prussia "Russian" is mind-numbingly ridiculous, if we're talking about the regions of Europe in a historical context. And it's a ludicrous argument by itself.

But still. Kaliningrad is now Russian. Nobody in Germany cares about the areas lost after WWII anymore at all. We have culturally a lot in common with Czechs, Poles, French and Belgians anyway. So it makes little difference if Poznan is German or Polish or Wroclaw or Kaliningrad or Eupen etc.

My own family has a lot of ancestors from Poznan.

 

[Namejs]

But still. Kaliningrad is now Russian. Nobody in Germany cares about the areas lost after WWII anymore at all. We have culturally a lot in common with Czechs, Poles, French and Belgians anyway. So it makes little difference if Poznan is German or Polish or Wroclaw or Kaliningrad or Eupen etc.

My own family has a lot of ancestors from Poznan.

That's fine by me. I'm not upset because you aren't demanding the lands of the German Empire back.

It's just that you're not making a distinction between 3 different major cultural/historical regions of Europe. Eastern Orthodoxy is what defines "Eastern Europe" in a historical context. Catholic Europe = Central, Southern Europe. Protestant Europe = Northern Europe. There are more layers to this besides religion, but my point is that you're throwing countries from 3 different regions into one because of some pre-conceived opinion that's based on some arbitrary&obsolete political grouping from the Cold War, which has nothing to do with anything anymore.