Value of: Your Sniper Winger to NYI

Strait2thecup

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3 way, avoids the rivalry thing:

not 111% final, just a framework:
something around core of:

Hoffman to Islanders
Georgiev to Panthers
Dobson + cap dump from FL Reimer* to Rangers

* Isles have enuf cap space to absorb Hof
per one of the links [I think Yardbarker] in a FL trade primer, Reimer has played reasonably well, but they would rather move him and create cap

this deal does that, and with Shesty coming in once he is here we flip Reimer to a team needing netminder.

Dobson for a guy who was traded for a second round pick this summer...

Nvm you’re a ranger fan. I get it
(I mean really dude... georgiev for Dobson? Yikes)
 

CREW99AW

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Don't distract CREW99AW, he's currently compiling a long list of players who were on pace for 66 points that were traded for a 2nd.

Plus he figures Panarin is coming to the Islanders for a 1st and Bellows.

Actually, I expect Panarin to be traded elsewhere at the TDL and for Lou to make his Panarin pitch in July.


I guess I would be snarky too if my team were a seller, with so many players on the market and only 9 days to go :popcorn:


Beyond Headlines: Trade deadline shaping up as buyer's market - Sportsnet.ca
 

PWJunior

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Dobson for a guy who was traded for a second round pick this summer...

Nvm you’re a ranger fan. I get it
(I mean really dude... georgiev for Dobson? Yikes)

He's been pining for Dobson for quite some time, pre-draft probably. Bern has always been known for his elaborate trade proposals, but it's always been transparent what he wants and that's our prized RD.
 

Phil120362

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He's been pining for Dobson for quite some time, pre-draft probably. Bern has always been known for his elaborate trade proposals, but it's always been transparent what he wants and that's our prized RD.
Because....Rangers
 

Seph

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Never said his value was at Panarin or Stone. But you aren't getting them for a 1st and Bellows either.

I asked you to show me a trade where a 66 point player went for a 2nd and obviously hat's an impossible task. Now you want players for pennies on the dollar because you believe, like most buying fans wish every year, that it's a buyers market. But the fact remains you could have went back any number of years to find a 66 point player for a 2nd and you can't find one really shows that this would have to be the best buying market in the history of the NHL. If that's your entire value model I think you're a little off.
Vanek was on a 65 point pace when he was traded for McIlrath and a conditional 3rd two years ago , and was on a 67 point pace when he was traded for Collberg and a 2nd a few years before that. Both values are well shy of a 1st, with the latter being only a little more valuable than a 2nd and the former being less than a 2nd. Heck, Vanek had only 6 fewer points last season than Nyquist does currently when he was traded Tyler Motte and a salary dump.

You can't assume high trade value based on points alone.
 
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TS Quint

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Actually, I expect Panarin to be traded elsewhere at the TDL and for Lou to make his Panarin pitch in July.


I guess I would be snarky too if my team were a seller, with so many players on the market and only 9 days to go :popcorn:


Beyond Headlines: Trade deadline shaping up as buyer's market - Sportsnet.ca
Well if that's the route you want to go.

Lol. After DECADES of success I dont think Wings fans have a right to be snarky about a rebuild. Most are pretty ok with it.

Also funny offer decades of rebuilding some people of a fan base can get to be so superior. But I'm guessing that's because you are trying to avoid the subject.

Where is the long list of 66 point players that went for a 2nd round pick?
 

TS Quint

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Vanek was on a 65 point pace when he was traded for McIlrath and a conditional 3rd two years ago , and was on a 67 point pace when he was traded for Collberg and a 2nd a few years before that. Both values are well shy of a 1st, with the latter being only a little more valuable than a 2nd and the former being less than a 2nd. Heck, Vanek had only 6 fewer points last season than Nyquist does currently when he was traded Tyler Motte and a salary dump.

You can't assume high trade value based on points alone.
Al though I think Nyquist shows to be a bit more than points, Good example.

One of my frustration points with the Wings singing him again this year when it's clear he has no trade value around the league.
 

CREW99AW

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Well if that's the route you want to go.

Lol. After DECADES of success I dont think Wings fans have a right to be snarky about a rebuild. Most are pretty ok with it.

Also funny offer decades of rebuilding some people of a fan base can get to be so superior. But I'm guessing that's because you are trying to avoid the subject.

Where is the long list of 66 point players that went for a 2nd round pick?

I see you continue to ignore what a large number of players are available and how that effects prices.

I am not getting into a pissing contest over Nyquist.
And I did not say all Wing fans were snarky.I said you were.
 

TS Quint

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I see you continue to ignore what a large number of players are available and how that effects prices.

I am not getting into a pissing contest over Nyquist.
And I did not say all Wing fans were snarky.I said you were.
Islanders are deadline buyers. Islander fan proclaims rentals will be the cheapest ever! Lol good luck with that.
 

Seph

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Al though I think Nyquist shows to be a bit more than points, Good example.

One of my frustration points with the Wings singing him again this year when it's clear he has no trade value around the league.
I do agree that Nyquist has more value than Vanek has the last couple seasons. I just wanted to point that despite his points, it is possible he returns less than a 1st rounder and a 1st rounder plus a Bellows level prospect is far from a guarantee. You never know though, a GM may get desperate.
 

bernmeister

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Lol this is terrible

No interest in gifting the rangers Dobson

absolutely ****ing not from NYI

Dobson for a guy who was traded for a second round pick this summer...

Nvm you’re a ranger fan. I get it
(I mean really dude... georgiev for Dobson? Yikes)

He's been pining for Dobson for quite some time, pre-draft probably. Bern has always been known for his elaborate trade proposals, but it's always been transparent what he wants and that's our prized RD.

Because....Rangers

the trade arguably works for FL cause they get a good G on elc which helps whether or not they get Bob-meister.
they also get lots of cap relief toward that end, and possibly Panarin

the trade arguably works for Isles who want sniper Hoffman immediately instead of Dobson when he gets here [and while I'm obviously bullish on Dobson, Hoffman as an established, known commodity is a certainty, while we don't know the ceiling on Dobson, and if/when he reaches it. The risk is small, but he could be another Poolparty.]

Given all of that, I make no apologies.
If you don't wanna deal cross town, I get it.
If that is the case, pony up your own deal for Hoffman; we'll see what that adds up to,

And btw, Hoffman is 1st round pick talent.
He was jettisoned expeditiously due to extraneous factors with his previous club that had nothing to do with on ice performance.

The Panthers may take Wahlstrom instead, but if I were them, I would not settle for less than Dobson
 

Strait2thecup

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the trade arguably works for FL cause they get a good G on elc which helps whether or not they get Bob-meister.
they also get lots of cap relief toward that end, and possibly Panarin

the trade arguably works for Isles who want sniper Hoffman immediately instead of Dobson when he gets here [and while I'm obviously bullish on Dobson, Hoffman as an established, known commodity is a certainty, while we don't know the ceiling on Dobson, and if/when he reaches it. The risk is small, but he could be another Poolparty.]

Given all of that, I make no apologies.
If you don't wanna deal cross town, I get it.
If that is the case, pony up your own deal for Hoffman; we'll see what that adds up to,

And btw, Hoffman is 1st round pick talent.
He was jettisoned expeditiously due to extraneous factors with his previous club that had nothing to do with on ice performance.

The Panthers may take Wahlstrom instead, but if I were them, I would not settle for less than Dobson

Hmm I don’t know man Hoffman is ok but georgiev is clearly the most valuable piece here
 

bernmeister

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Hmm I don’t know man Hoffman is ok but georgiev is clearly the most valuable piece here

I wouldn't say that.
I would say the importance of each piece varies with current need.

Georgiev has starter potential, and that is becoming more apparent by the minute. With Hank, Shesty and others, we can spare him, but we are not giving him away. FL can use him regardless of how things develop.

Obviously, Isles could really use Hoffman, who is not just an opportunistic scorer, but a legit sniper.

The question is how much, and it was a fair 3 way.
 

Strait2thecup

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I wouldn't say that.
I would say the importance of each piece varies with current need.

Georgiev has starter potential, and that is becoming more apparent by the minute. With Hank, Shesty and others, we can spare him, but we are not giving him away. FL can use him regardless of how things develop.

Obviously, Isles could really use Hoffman, who is not just an opportunistic scorer, but a legit sniper.

The question is how much, and it was a fair 3 way.
He’s be lucky to return a second rounder. You’re drunk
 

impaaaaaact

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the trade arguably works for FL cause they get a good G on elc which helps whether or not they get Bob-meister.
they also get lots of cap relief toward that end, and possibly Panarin

the trade arguably works for Isles who want sniper Hoffman immediately instead of Dobson when he gets here [and while I'm obviously bullish on Dobson, Hoffman as an established, known commodity is a certainty, while we don't know the ceiling on Dobson, and if/when he reaches it. The risk is small, but he could be another Poolparty.]

Given all of that, I make no apologies.
If you don't wanna deal cross town, I get it.
If that is the case, pony up your own deal for Hoffman; we'll see what that adds up to,

And btw, Hoffman is 1st round pick talent.
He was jettisoned expeditiously due to extraneous factors with his previous club that had nothing to do with on ice performance.

The Panthers may take Wahlstrom instead, but if I were them, I would not settle for less than Dobson

I would consider trading Wahlstrom for Huberdeau as that fits with our window and he’s signed for 4 years on a ridiculous contract. 7 years of dobson for a year and a third of hoffman is insane
 

CREW99AW

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How about a slightly used simmonds instead?

Any takers?
Would prefer to move the 1st for a player with term like Hoffman.

Isles ,just like the Flyers, should have no interest in giving 30 yr old Simmonds a fat retirement contract,when his best yrs are behind him.
 

newfy

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How 'bout Duchene and Dzingel for Dobson?

Seriously ? That is verrrrry tempting, Dobson is a stud but Duchene and Dzingel would totally transform our top 6

Tempting? I think Lou makes that trade without thinking twice.

I know its hockeys"future" but the overvaluing of prospects is sometimes insane on here. I keep seeing the word blue chip thrown around for Wahlstrom and Dobson in this thread which seems a little over the top for players picked outside of the top 10, that arent really lighting it up this year and werent exactly dominant at the world juniors either. Blue chip is a top 10-15ish prospect in the entire league, those guys were barely that in their own draft.
 
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Sparksrus3

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Tempting? I think Lou makes that trade without thinking twice.

I know its hockeys"future" but the overvaluing of prospects is sometimes insane on here. I keep seeing the word blue chip thrown around for Wahlstrom and Dobson in this thread which seems a little over the top for players picked outside of the top 10, that arent really lighting it up this year and werent exactly dominant at the world juniors either. Blue chip is a top 10-15ish prospect in the entire league, those guys were barely that in their own draft.

Looks like the return of Andrew Ladd to the lineup in 2 weeks will be our sniper. Someone needs to tell him he is one so he'll be ready to score score score .
 

bernmeister

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I would consider trading Wahlstrom for Huberdeau as that fits with our window and he’s signed for 4 years on a ridiculous contract. 7 years of dobson for a year and a third of hoffman is insane

You are entitled to that op, but recognize it is one end of the spectrum.
You don't have an issue - other than term - with Hoffman, who I concurred with others was a desirable target. You just don't wanna pay significant value for a significant asset. who is 1st round talent. Let us remember, Hoffman IS established, Dobson, Wahlstrom are not -- they command significantly due to talent and draft selection, but let's not make more or less of them than they are.

Hubs v Hof is a fair ?, and I think depending on return, the pref for a player with term is a fair one. However I don't expect Huberdeau is made available, and if he is, he will cost a lot more.

IMO, + or - a small possible add, Hoffman does fetch Dobson. Other returns are possible, but Hoffman is not gonna be cheap, that's the point. Yes, you do have alternatives.
 

impaaaaaact

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You are entitled to that op, but recognize it is one end of the spectrum.
You don't have an issue - other than term - with Hoffman, who I concurred with others was a desirable target. You just don't wanna pay significant value for a significant asset. who is 1st round talent. Let us remember, Hoffman IS established, Dobson, Wahlstrom are not -- they command significantly due to talent and draft selection, but let's not make more or less of them than they are.

Hubs v Hof is a fair ?, and I think depending on return, the pref for a player with term is a fair one. However I don't expect Huberdeau is made available, and if he is, he will cost a lot more.

IMO, + or - a small possible add, Hoffman does fetch Dobson. Other returns are possible, but Hoffman is not gonna be cheap, that's the point. Yes, you do have alternatives.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but recognize it’s one end of the spectrum. There’s a difference between “cheap” and “blue chip prospect”. I happily give this year’s first +, or bellows or something of that ilk, but as stated in the OP, Dobson is not available
 

CREW99AW

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Tempting? I think Lou makes that trade without thinking twice.

I know its hockeys"future" but the overvaluing of prospects is sometimes insane on here. I keep seeing the word blue chip thrown around for Wahlstrom and Dobson in this thread which seems a little over the top for players picked outside of the top 10, that arent really lighting it up this year and werent exactly dominant at the world juniors either. Blue chip is a top 10-15ish prospect in the entire league, those guys were barely that in their own draft.

That whole Lou values nhlers over prospects & picks spin would carry more weight if the press had not already reported on the failed EK to LI trade, the failed Grubrauer to LI trade and the failed MaxPac to LI trade.All involving top prospects or high draft picks.

Lou has said trades have to make sense for the long-term, 8-10 years down the road .
Trotz has said the isles are in tneir infancy.

And you are wasting your time,trying to sell nyi fans on the idea that Dobson and Wahlstrom are not blue chippers.
As if Dobson and Pelech have the same upside and trade value.
 

TS Quint

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:popcorn: cheapest ever? Which post claimed that?
You keep you going on about the supply out stripping the demand. Then you go on about a 66 point player only being worth a 2nd round pick yet can't find examples. Maybe you don't understand the words you are typing. Try at least being logical.
 

CREW99AW

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You keep you going on about the supply out stripping the demand. Then you go on about a 66 point player only being worth a 2nd round pick yet can't find examples. Maybe you don't understand the words you are typing. Try at least being logical.
I posted a link to a McKenzie Feb, 13th interview, in which McKenzie with sources, says Nyquist trade value is a 2nd .
Don't like that report? Complain to McKenzie.

And again ,which nyi fan post said these would be the cheapest TDL prices ever ?
 
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