Speculation: Your 2013-2014 Detroit Red Wings

crashman

Guest
I'll admit, I might have been reaching by saying Abby was a better fighter than Tootoo, even at this point. But honestly...I couldn't care less, as I see no value in Tootoo's fighting ability. You don't need a guy that can fight well to keep other teams in check, you just need to be able to play an overall physical game, but still play smart.

Players don't think "I better behave because "x enforcer" might beat me up". You just have to make sure you're at least equaling their physicality, and fighting rarely plays a role in that anymore. In fact, it's better when you piss a guy off and refuse to drop them, then he's in your head and there's nothing you can do about it.

That's why I like the way Kronwall refuses to fight after one of his hits (especially because most of them are clean). Kronwall's not going to do well in a fight, that's not his thing, but let the other team stew on it and forget about trying to score some goals. If they want to retaliate, good, they're most likely going to get penalized.
 

Detroit Swed Wings

#FireHolland
Jan 17, 2013
283
0
Malmö
I'll admit, I might have been reaching by saying Abby was a better fighter than Tootoo, even at this point. But honestly...I couldn't care less, as I see no value in Tootoo's fighting ability. You don't need a guy that can fight well to keep other teams in check, you just need to be able to play an overall physical game, but still play smart.

Players don't think "I better behave because "x enforcer" might beat me up". You just have to make sure you're at least equaling their physicality, and fighting rarely plays a role in that anymore. In fact, it's better when you piss a guy off and refuse to drop them, then he's in your head and there's nothing you can do about it.

That's why I like the way Kronwall refuses to fight after one of his hits (especially because most of them are clean). Kronwall's not going to do well in a fight, that's not his thing, but let the other team stew on it and forget about trying to score some goals. If they want to retaliate, good, they're most likely going to get penalized.

I would say Tootoo is more of an energy-player (like Helm) but with a gritty upside instead of "skill".
He's not out there just to mess the other team up (like Carcillio).

I agree with you that we don't need Tootoo for his fighting ability, and I don't think either that it was for that reason he was signed.
Sure Tootoo took some bad penalties, but overall I think he was on par on what was expected of him. He was just not the fit they thought I guess.
 

DB0SS

Registered User
Aug 26, 2012
60
1
Canada, eh?
Z - Datsyuk - Alf
Franzen - Weiss - Nyquist
Tatar - Helm - Abdelkader
Miller - Andersson - Bert/ Em

Bert/ Emmerton
Eaves

Dekeyser - Kronwall
Kindl - Smith
Ericsson - Quincey
Lashoff

Howard
Monster

Never really understood why Ericsson was on the top d pairing with Kronwall. He really isn't that good, I believe he lead the team in turnovers. I would much rather see DeKeyser or Kindl get the time with Kronner.

However knowing Babcock it could look more like this...

Z - Datsyuk - Abdelkaeder
Cleary - Weiss - Bert
Miller - Helm - Samuelsson
Maltby - Draper - Babcock JR.

Nyquist
Tatar

Ericsson - Quincey
Kronwall - Lilja
Lebda - Huskins (yes we got him back, traded 2 1st rounders for the beaut)

DeKeyser

Smith & Kindl down in the minors

Osgood
Howard
 

Avery Rule

Registered User
Jun 1, 2010
1,046
194
hm... would anyone rather have Phaneuf than Quincey, maybe KQ, and some forwards like Tootoo/Eaves, and a pick?
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Phaneuf for Quincey + prospect + tootoo?

Everyday of the week. He may be on the slow side, but he brings a few elements our D badly needs.

Problem is, the prospect would have to be Sproul or Nyquist
 

Run the Jewels

Make Detroit Great Again
Jun 22, 2006
13,817
1,750
In the Garage
I have to think Nyquist is going to not only ask for a one-way deal (which is obvious), but I bet he's also asking for Holland's word that he won't be sent down again. At least, that's what's happening if Nyquist's agent is even mediocre.

Absolutely. Players are catching on and realize they need to do what's best for them and their careers. And good for them. Make Ken Holland dance, Gus. :yo:
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,200
14,889
crease
Phaneuf for Quincey + prospect + tootoo?

Everyday of the week. He may be on the slow side, but he brings a few elements our D badly needs.

Problem is, the prospect would have to be Sproul or Nyquist

Phaneuf fills a need, I'll give you that. He's one of the more realistic targets the Wings could make to actually improve the D.

I think it's more likely they hope Kindl, Smith, and Dekeyser make steps forward though than give up a guy like Nyquist.
 

RedWingsNow*

Guest
Phaneuf fills a need, I'll give you that. He's one of the more realistic targets the Wings could make to actually improve the D.

I think it's more likely they hope Kindl, Smith, and Dekeyser make steps forward though than give up a guy like Nyquist.

Problem is while DD might become a good stay-at-home D, nobody on our D is a piss and vinegar type. Nedomlel and McKee are the only prospects who can be mean. We could stand to balance things out
 
Jul 30, 2005
17,659
4,588
I mean, what is location, really
Why on earth would Toronto accept Quincey+prospect+Tootoo for Phaneuf? That's a 3rd pairing guy, an asset of undetermined value, and a 3rd liner for a solid #2 defenseman.

I think they'd want something like this: Kindl and a 2nd. Maybe Kindl, 2nd, and a prospect for Phaneuf and a pick.
 

InjuredChoker

Registered User
Dec 25, 2011
31,402
345
LTIR or golf course
Look at Toronto's D behind Phaneuf.

I think he's getting underrated, he's around Kronwall level to me.

Would we trade Kronwall for #4 or 5 dman, 4th liner and prospect?

Only way I see him traded is if he doesn't want to re-sign.
 

joe89

#5
Apr 30, 2009
20,313
174
Why on earth would Toronto accept Quincey+prospect+Tootoo for Phaneuf? That's a 3rd pairing guy, an asset of undetermined value, and a 3rd liner for a solid #2 defenseman.

I think they'd want something like this: Kindl and a 2nd. Maybe Kindl, 2nd, and a prospect for Phaneuf and a pick.

One more year left of his deal. Jay-Bo had 1½ years left of his deal at the deadline and Calgary barely managed to squeeze out a first rounder for him. They basically got a 1st+Almqvist+D.Larsson.

So what is Phaneuf's value based on that? I think the Quincey+Tootoo+prospect is probably pretty close. That's not to say Toronto thinks it's worth it at all, a season of Phaneuf is probably >> that unless it is a top5 prospect.

It's more about if Toronto would want to get something specific for Phaneuf before his contract ends anyway, if they don't plan to re-sign him. At the deadline he's worth a pick or two like anyone else.
 

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