Young talent? We are the worst team in the NHL ....

[Joejosh999]

I know we've had insane bad luck w injuries, but when was the last time a team was frozen by no cap space like we are?
It's so bizarre, I dunno if it implicates our AGMs or if a lot of teams are this tight - but just luckier re injuries....?

Really, it was only thee injuries that put us in this fix corrct? Letang/Hoff/Perron....

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yet Maatta is one of the best young defensemen in the league. Pouliot looks promising. So who's really to blame? Coaching, GM, or the bust we draft like BB.

BB was a project the moment he was drafted. It was well known he was a long term project out of the B at the draft.

Again, if they weren't willing to be patient with him, he should never have been the pick there. If they didn't think he was ready for the pros, they should have encouraged him to stay in school. There is always a risk a young kids body isn't ready for the pro game. Technically BB would have been in his first year as a pro if he stayed in school.

He was always a long term project, but people want him developed now.

Despres has put up 20 points this year and taken giant leaps in his development, and they gave up on him.

Unless guys play well right off the bat like Maatta and DP, this org has little to no patience letting guys work through their growing pains. They prefer experience over youth and that's sadly reflected in the lack of good young players on this team.

 

[SEALBound]

I always say that there is time to right the ship. The ideal time to have done that was last year at the draft. We could have sold some assets and gained some really good assets back. IIRC, I had some decent trades worked out that netted us:

Sam Bennett, Brendon Lemiuex, couple of the Anaheim young wingers, and ROR

Believe I had Letang, Martin, Sutter, Scuds, Neal, and Kunitz leaving...

Here's the thing though, you have to be willing to part with players. Our attachment to players will be the death nail for us. Zero reason Kunitz and Dupuis and Adams and Scuds should have been resigned. There were much better routes to go than sign them.

One thing that LA, Boston, and Chicago did was not have that attachment. They were willing to make the trades. Chicago got fortunate in a couple ways though: 1. Toews and Kane did not cost as much as Sid and Geno. That will be changing. 2. They were able to sign Hossa long term at a low-ish cap hit. That helped a lot. Not to mention they grabbed Saad and he worked out.

I believe that will be changing in the future. Course all three of those orgs know how to develop talent. We don't.

There are still trades we can make to help right the ship. We just have to have the balls to do it. What we should be 100% focused on right now is luring Panarin and Tikhonov to the team. Word is they want to come over, they are free, and we will have the cap space. Absolute worst case, they are trade pieces we acquire for nothing. 23 and 27 respectively. What they do is fill holes that we would normally fill with trade acquisitions via our early rounders.

Perron-Sid-Hornqvist
Tikhonov-Malkin-Panarin
Downie-Sundqvist-Bennett
Comeau-Lapierre-Spaling

Trade Kunitz and Sutter for picks. Use those picks to replenish the cupboard or use them to move up and get someone good. Would LOVE to figure out a way to get up to 5 to 10 to get Lawson Crouse. 6'4, 215lb and scoring in the OHL. THAT is the kind of wing we need ASAP. Paul Bittner is also a realistic option. Or try to trade Kunitz for Sharp.

Despres going away just **** so many potential deals moving forward. Would have been awesome to do something like Lovejoy+Ritchie for Despres+...something. But we didn't...we yet again pissed that asset away. Shame.

We have to do away with Dupuis. We need to have a heart to heart with him and shut him down. We just can't rely on him moving forward and his 3.75 is better spent else where. Become a coach, become a motivator, go somewhere else, whatever...just not on the ice for us.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I know we've had insane bad luck w injuries, but when was the last time a team was frozen by no cap space like we are?
It's so bizarre, I dunno if it implicates our AGMs or if a lot of teams are this tight - but just luckier re injuries....?

Really, it was only thee injuries that put us in this fix corrct? Letang/Hoff/Perron....

I remember the Devils having to play with an incomplete roster at the beginning of the year a few seasons ago. I think it was immediately after they re-signed Kovalchuk.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Tikhonov isn't even a top 6 player in Russia at this point, yet he's a guy we should have with Geno? Yikes.

 

[Gurglesons]

Look at the Hawks, Kings and Bruins who have probably been the best since 2010. They very rarely trade their picks, especially in a salary cap world. We don't develop any young players and are forced to trade for 3rd and 4th line players.

Those teams are competitive year after year and have a decent amount of prospects still coming up.

Chicago

2015 - 1st for Vermette
2015 - 2nd for Timonen
2014 - 2nd for Brisebois and Rundblad
2012 - 2nd and 3rd for Oduya
2011 - 2nd for Campoli
2010 - No trades with picks really.

Totals - 1 - 1st - 4 - 2nd - 1 - 3rd

So in the last five years Chicago has traded a 2nd round pick every season but two.


LA
2015 - 1st for Sekera
2014 - 2nd for Gaborik
2013 - Two 2nds for Regehr
2012 - 1st for Carter
2011 - 2nd for Richards
2011 - 1st for Penner
2010 - 3rd for Halpern

Totals - 3 - 1st - 4 - 2nd - 1 -3rd
So in the last five years LA has traded at least a 2nd or a 1st every year besides 2010 when they weren't really "contenders" yet.

Boston
2015 - Two 2nds for Connoly
2014 - 3rd for Meszaros
2013 - 2nd for Jagr
2012 - No trades with picks really
2011 - 1st and 2nd for Kaberle
2011 - 2nd for Kelly
2010 - 1st and 3rd for Horton / Campbell
2010 - 2nd for Seidenberg

Totals - 2 - 1st - 6 2nd - 2 3rd

So Boston hasn't really traded a lot of picks, but have at least given up a 2nd in every other year.

Penguins
2015 - 2nd for Winnik
2015 - 1st for Perron
2014 - 3rd for Stempinak
2014 - 3rd for Goc
2013 - 1st for Iginla
2013 - Two 2nds for Murray
2012 - No trades with picks really
2011 - No trades with picks really
2010 - 3rd for rights to Hamhuis
2010 - 2nd for Leopold

Total - 2 - 1st - 4 - 2nds - 3 - 3rds

Doesn't look as bad as people want to make it. The issue our team has had is not "trading" picks. It is the fact we don't move players like Orpik or Nisky last year when we need to restock on picks. That is the downfall of the Penguins, not the fact we are "trading" picks.

 

[billybudd]

I always say that there is time to right the ship. The ideal time to have done that was last year at the draft. We could have sold some assets and gained some really good assets back. IIRC, I had some decent trades worked out that netted us:

Sam Bennett, Brendon Lemiuex, couple of the Anaheim young wingers, and ROR

Believe I had Letang, Martin, Sutter, Scuds, Neal, and Kunitz leaving...

Here's the thing though, you have to be willing to part with players. Our attachment to players will be the death nail for us. Zero reason Kunitz and Dupuis and Adams and Scuds should have been resigned. There were much better routes to go than sign them.

One thing that LA, Boston, and Chicago did was not have that attachment. They were willing to make the trades. Chicago got fortunate in a couple ways though: 1. Toews and Kane did not cost as much as Sid and Geno. That will be changing. 2. They were able to sign Hossa long term at a low-ish cap hit. That helped a lot. Not to mention they grabbed Saad and he worked out.

I believe that will be changing in the future. Course all three of those orgs know how to develop talent. We don't.

There are still trades we can make to help right the ship. We just have to have the balls to do it. What we should be 100% focused on right now is luring Panarin and Tikhonov to the team. Word is they want to come over, they are free, and we will have the cap space. Absolute worst case, they are trade pieces we acquire for nothing. 23 and 27 respectively. What they do is fill holes that we would normally fill with trade acquisitions via our early rounders.

Perron-Sid-Hornqvist
Tikhonov-Malkin-Panarin
Downie-Sundqvist-Bennett
Comeau-Lapierre-Spaling

Trade Kunitz and Sutter for picks. Use those picks to replenish the cupboard or use them to move up and get someone good. Would LOVE to figure out a way to get up to 5 to 10 to get Lawson Crouse. 6'4, 215lb and scoring in the OHL. THAT is the kind of wing we need ASAP. Paul Bittner is also a realistic option. Or try to trade Kunitz for Sharp.

Despres going away just **** so many potential deals moving forward. Would have been awesome to do something like Lovejoy+Ritchie for Despres+...something. But we didn't...we yet again pissed that asset away. Shame.

We have to do away with Dupuis. We need to have a heart to heart with him and shut him down. We just can't rely on him moving forward and his 3.75 is better spent else where. Become a coach, become a motivator, go somewhere else, whatever...just not on the ice for us.

I've been watching a bunch of video on Panarin and he might be worth rolling the dice on. Great chance he's nothing, but there's also a fair chance he's a Russian Johnny Gaudreau.

We really have nothing to lose. It's not like he'd be blocking anybody else. I'd really like for Kapanen to spend a whole year in Wilkes-barre, but even if he doesn't, there's room to see what both he and Panarin are made of.

Pens need to get bigger and tougher, but they also need to get a wing or two who can both skate and put a puck in a net. Panarin might be able to help with the last two, if he can adjust to this clutch and grab, ever-present soft pick bull ****.

Anybody seen Tikhonov in the K? I remember liking him with the Yotes.

 

[Gurglesons]

One thing that LA, Boston, and Chicago did was not have that attachment. They were willing to make the trades. Chicago got fortunate in a couple ways though: 1. Toews and Kane did not cost as much as Sid and Geno. That will be changing. 2. They were able to sign Hossa long term at a low-ish cap hit. That helped a lot. Not to mention they grabbed Saad and he worked out.

I believe that will be changing in the future. Course all three of those orgs know how to develop talent. We don't.

LA and Chicago both were able to take advantage of cap circumventing contracts with Hossa, Richards, and Carter. The only reason Chicago sold off players like Ladd, Buff, etc. is because they botched their qualifying offers.

If the Penguins front office did a trade of Buff and Sopel after a cup win for Crabb, Morin, Reasoner, and a 1st and a 2nd (The first was Kevin Hayes who is doing really good for the Hawks!) people on this forum would be livid. Oh, and how about Ladd for a KHL player and Clendening who is doing great for them.. in Vancouver.

The over exaggeration of how the Penguin are the only ones that make "bad" trades and give away picks is rampant on this forum when we've honestly paralleled Boston, Chicago, and LA incredibly with our trades.

 

[SEALBound]

Look at the Hawks, Kings and Bruins who have probably been the best since 2010. They very rarely trade their picks, especially in a salary cap world. We don't develop any young players and are forced to trade for 3rd and 4th line players.

Those teams are competitive year after year and have a decent amount of prospects still coming up.

LA and Chicago both were able to take advantage of cap circumventing contracts with Hossa, Richards, and Carter. The only reason Chicago sold off players like Ladd, Buff, etc. is because they botched their qualifying offers.

If the Penguins front office did a trade of Buff and Sopel after a cup win for Crabb, Morin, Reasoner, and a 1st and a 2nd (The first was Kevin Hayes who is doing really good for the Hawks!) people on this forum would be livid. Oh, and how about Ladd for a KHL player and Clendening who is doing great for them.. in Vancouver.

The over exaggeration of how the Penguin are the only ones that make "bad" trades and give away picks is rampant on this forum when we've honestly paralleled Boston, Chicago, and LA incredibly with our trades.

I think if we developed a few more of them like we did in the old days people wouldn't be as made. After 08 when we traded off Armstrong, EC, Espo, the 1st and then lost Malone, Hossa, etc...we became a mercenary team. I mean, it's not like Army and EC were the young depth guys we needed to save the team right now but our WBS roster has not been full of capable NHL players for awhile since.

The trades we have made wouldn't be as bad if we offset them with getting rid of other players. Look at who we've lost for nothing recently:

Michalek, Orpik, Niskanen, Engo, and we will lose Martin and Ehrhoff...those are major assets for nothing. Malone and Cooke are two forwards we lost for nothing as well. Other teams don't let that happen very often. If they do, it's because they have a replacement player in mind. We rarely do.

Okay, Tikhonov might be a long shot for the top 6 but I do believe someone said him and Panarin would like to play together. So ok, you so sign both. Then with the Sutter trade you get another wing of Perron caliber:

Perron-Sid-Horn
Trade-Malkin-Panarin
Downie-Sundqvist-Tikhonov
Comeau-Spaling-Bennett

Hopefully Winnik signs in there somewhere? Maybe its a Sutter+Bennett package that gets us a stud LW back.

Or something. Keeps Kapanen in WBS and is the first call up. One thing it is...it's a new, young-ish player that is looking to find and keep a spot. Same thing with Kapanen. he gets the call, he may wanna stay.

Bottom line though, Kunitz and Dupuis can't be a part of the roster moving forward. They represent a lot of what is holding the team back. They may be great guys in the locker room but...we need to move on.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think if we developed a few more of them like we did in the old days people wouldn't be as made. After 08 when we traded off Armstrong, EC, Espo, the 1st and then lost Malone, Hossa, etc...we became a mercenary team. I mean, it's not like Army and EC were the young depth guys we needed to save the team right now but our WBS roster has not been full of capable NHL players for awhile since.

The trades we have made wouldn't be as bad if we offset them with getting rid of other players. Look at who we've lost for nothing recently:

Michalek, Orpik, Niskanen, Engo, and we will lose Martin and Ehrhoff...those are major assets for nothing. Malone and Cooke are two forwards we lost for nothing as well. Other teams don't let that happen very often. If they do, it's because they have a replacement player in mind. We rarely do.

Okay, Tikhonov might be a long shot for the top 6 but I do believe someone said him and Panarin would like to play together. So ok, you so sign both. Then with the Sutter trade you get another wing of Perron caliber:

Perron-Sid-Horn
Trade-Malkin-Panarin
Downie-Sundqvist-Tikhonov
Comeau-Spaling-Bennett

Hopefully Winnik signs in there somewhere? Maybe its a Sutter+Bennett package that gets us a stud LW back.

Or something. Keeps Kapanen in WBS and is the first call up. One thing it is...it's a new, young-ish player that is looking to find and keep a spot. Same thing with Kapanen. he gets the call, he may wanna stay.

Bottom line though, Kunitz and Dupuis can't be a part of the roster moving forward. They represent a lot of what is holding the team back. They may be great guys in the locker room but...we need to move on.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like the Pens should have signed both Grabs and Kulemin as a package when they had the chance, I had no clue they were a package deal at first, but if the Pens didn't sign them, who knows if we would get Perron right?

If Tikhonov and Panarin are a package deal, I say get both, but then you decide who you want out of Comeau, Lapierre, Downie, and Winnik because 2 out of 4 could walk and of course, the cap implications.

Panarin/Bennett, Crosby, Hornqvist
Perron, Malkin, Bennett/Panarin
Kunitz, Sutter, Tikhonov
Winnik, Lapierre, Rust/Downie/Comeau/UFA

Ideally, by then, they deal Kunitz and sign someone else as a top 9 forward.

 

[Gurglesons]

Michalek, Orpik, Niskanen, Engo, and we will lose Martin and Ehrhoff...those are major assets for nothing. Malone and Cooke are two forwards we lost for nothing as well. Other teams don't let that happen very often. If they do, it's because they have a replacement player in mind. We rarely do.

Niskanen and Orpik are the glaring ones, but just like this year we lost major defensemen and didn't realize what we had in Olli until after we had lost them.

Michalek got us Sundqvist, so we can wait and see on that.

Engo and Ehrhoff would never be dealt, and a team that signs a prized UFA to a one year contract and then turns around and trades him isn't the kind of team I would want to sign with.

Plenty of teams let that happen. Chicago traded Buff for spare parts that basically contributed to them getting knocked out.

Richards wasn't bought out and Mitchell was moved instead. That was an absolutely terrible move.

Calgary just held onto Cammy for absolutely no reason last year.

 

[SEALBound]

Niskanen and Orpik are the glaring ones, but just like this year we lost major defensemen and didn't realize what we had in Olli until after we had lost them.

Michalek got us Sundqvist, so we can wait and see on that.

Engo and Ehrhoff would never be dealt, and a team that signs a prized UFA to a one year contract and then turns around and trades him isn't the kind of team I would want to sign with.

Plenty of teams let that happen. Chicago traded Buff for spare parts that basically contributed to them getting knocked out.

Richards wasn't bought out and Mitchell was moved instead. That was an absolutely terrible move.

Calgary just held onto Cammy for absolutely no reason last year.

Forgot that. I thought it was Ruopp and the goalie...forgot that pick got us him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Forgot that. I thought it was Ruopp and the goalie...forgot that pick got us him.

Ruopp is why losing Bortuzzo is meh...Ruopp could end up being a better player in that role if he continues to develop. But yeah, that trade was fairly decent for a guy that didn't want to be in Pittsburgh anymore.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ruopp is why losing Bortuzzo is meh...Ruopp could end up being a better player in that role if he continues to develop. But yeah, that trade was fairly decent for a guy that didn't want to be in Pittsburgh anymore.

I mean, I can understand being aggravated over that trade. Michalek would've been the best UFA defenseman that year available if he had gone to UFA. We should've been able to get something more than a 3rd for him. Still, it may work out well given how well Sundqvist has been playing especially in the playoffs this year.

 

[YinzAintBurgh*]

BB was a project the moment he was drafted. It was well known he was a long term project out of the B at the draft.

Again, if they weren't willing to be patient with him, he should never have been the pick there. If they didn't think he was ready for the pros, they should have encouraged him to stay in school. There is always a risk a young kids body isn't ready for the pro game. Technically BB would have been in his first year as a pro if he stayed in school.

He was always a long term project, but people want him developed now.

Despres has put up 20 points this year and taken giant leaps in his development, and they gave up on him.

Unless guys play well right off the bat like Maatta and DP, this org has little to no patience letting guys work through their growing pains. They prefer experience over youth and that's sadly reflected in the lack of good young players on this team.

I agree about the whole BB situation. I honestly have no issues with him right now. I shouldn't have said "bust" way too early for that but that talk only comes from seeing the post on here complaining about his TOI and how he doesn't get to play in the Top 6. I know he hasn't gotten that opportunity because he isn't good enough yet and honestly he hasn't been all that impressive to earn it. But I think he's a fine 3/4th liner right now and there's nothing wrong with that. But I don't think his supporters can handle that.

 

[SEALBound]

Ruopp is why losing Bortuzzo is meh...Ruopp could end up being a better player in that role if he continues to develop. But yeah, that trade was fairly decent for a guy that didn't want to be in Pittsburgh anymore.

Ruopp has spent a lot of time in Wheeling. I doubt we see him up. Maybe as a journeyman, ala Engelland in a few years but as an impact dman, no.

Sundqvist is the prize out of the deal. Can't wait to see what he's got.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean, I can understand being aggravated over that trade. Michalek would've been the best UFA defenseman that year available if he had gone to UFA. We should've been able to get something more than a 3rd for him. Still, it may work out well given how well Sundqvist has been playing especially in the playoffs this year.

Purely a cap clearing more to get Parise and/or Suter. Didn't pan out. Worst part, Shero had no backup plan. Just like Hossa in 08.

Looking back, I think I remember wanting us to sign Doan and Semin. Wouldn't that have been something?

Doan-Crosby-Semin
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

lol, nice.

 

[rkhum]

This proves the idiocy of Shero's drafting philosophy.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

BB was a project the moment he was drafted. It was well known he was a long term project out of the B at the draft.

Again, if they weren't willing to be patient with him, he should never have been the pick there. If they didn't think he was ready for the pros, they should have encouraged him to stay in school. There is always a risk a young kids body isn't ready for the pro game. Technically BB would have been in his first year as a pro if he stayed in school.

He was always a long term project, but people want him developed now.

Despres has put up 20 points this year and taken giant leaps in his development, and they gave up on him.

Unless guys play well right off the bat like Maatta and DP, this org has little to no patience letting guys work through their growing pains. They prefer experience over youth and that's sadly reflected in the lack of good young players on this team.

It's gonna take me a really long time to get over this trade. I'd really love to get JR along for just 1 minute just to ask him what he was actually thinking with this trade...

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

JR has already traded 4 picks over the next 2 years and hasn't got any back.

Yeah, for guys in their 20s who have a good shot at re-signing. Shero liked to blow his picks on 35 yearolds who he lost for free in the summer.

Shero has royally ****ed this team in the ass.

 

[Darth Vitale]

the thread tags says "news"

Yah, it's not. Removed.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I think Doug Murray did everything we wanted from him those playoffs. He was solid in a bottom pair and PK role and played hard-nosed hockey.

The price was crazy, but we needed what he provided.

If what we needed was 1/2 of the slowest D pairing in the league then you're right!

 

[canadianguy77]

It's gonna take me a really long time to get over this trade. I'd really love to get JR along for just 1 minute just to ask him what he was actually thinking with this trade...

Wasn't it the 3 stooges from the last regime who pushed for the trade?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I agree about the whole BB situation. I honestly have no issues with him right now. I shouldn't have said "bust" way too early for that but that talk only comes from seeing the post on here complaining about his TOI and how he doesn't get to play in the Top 6. I know he hasn't gotten that opportunity because he isn't good enough yet and honestly he hasn't been all that impressive to earn it. But I think he's a fine 3/4th liner right now and there's nothing wrong with that. But I don't think his supporters can handle that.

I'm just going to dumb this down to one single point. BB was drafted to be a top six winger. Not a fourth line grinder. There is zero reasons he couldn't have been used in Kunitz spot for the last twenty+ games. Absolutely none.

They would rather prop up a past his prime Kunitz, then see what they have in BB.

That right there is what's wrong with this org. They just don't get it, and that's why their track record for developing youth is abysmal.

It's gonna take me a really long time to get over this trade. I'd really love to get JR along for just 1 minute just to ask him what he was actually thinking with this trade...

I was a Lovejoy guy when he was a Pen in his first stint, but this trade looks dumber every time I see Lovejoy play.

I can't believe an NHL org watched film on both of these guys and decided it was a deal they had to do. I wouldn't be shocked to find out they were all smoking dubies in a closet then came out and made the trade call.