Young goal scoring heroes in the SCF

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,584
15,948
the avs/lightning finals thread made me think of this. here are my memorable instances of where a non-star young guy really announced his presence in the SCF.



john leclair: back to back OT goals, games 3 and 4 of the 1993 finals (+ 2 assists in the deciding game 5, but not on the GWG)

paul dipietro: two goals in game 5 of the 1993 finals (not the GWG)

alex tanguay: two goals and an assist in game 7 of the 2001 finals, including the cup winning goal

mike rupp: a goal and two assists in game 7 of the 2003 finals, including the cup winning goal

rusty fedotenko: both goals in game 7 of the 2004 finals (cup winning goal, of course)

dustin byfuglien: two goals and two assists in game 5 of the stanley cup finals to put chicago up 3-2 (+ the big hit on pronger in the same game)

brad marchand: two goals and an assist in game 7 of the 2011 finals (assisted on the GWG)

——

tanguay, rupp, and rusty's two goal/GWG game sevens in four years stick out especially. but i opened the criteria up a little to accommodate a few other guys.

what's interesting to me is that in all of those cases, i thought, this guy will be a star next season. it took leclair a couple of years to get there and marchand settled into being a really really good complementary player before finally breaking out as a star six or seven years later.

byfuglien was an all-star the next year, but at a different position and on a new team so he was like a totally different player than the guy we saw break out in the finals.

rusty never became a star but was a good complementary top six guy and had another big playoffs in him.

rupp became a journeyman grinder (and rusty's teammate on the 2012 rangers team that almost made the finals), and dipietro faded away.

tanguay was already almost a point/game player but before and after he was a complementary top line guy to an MVP. he never really took the reins as a main guy like i thought he would from that big game. in 2004, it did look like he was on the cusp succeeding sakic and forsberg as the avs' main guy, though. he led the team in scoring for most of the year and was within spitting distance of leading the league up to his regular season-ending injury in march.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quoipourquoi

Filthy Dangles

Registered User*
Oct 23, 2014
28,353
39,702
Ville Leino in 2010 had 9 points in 6 finals games...that playoff run and finals really put him on the map
 

ES

Registered User
Feb 14, 2004
4,151
821
Finland
Frederick Gaudreau scoring 3 goals in 2017 finals. Didn't help the team to win though. Still no real breakthrough in NHL.
 

ShelbyZ

Registered User
Apr 8, 2015
3,793
2,555
For the 97 Wings:

-Maltby had 3 goals in 66 regular season games. Opens the scoring for the 97 finals with a shorthanded goal and then scores the game winner in Game 2. Also had an assist in game 4.
-LaPointe scored 2 goals in Game 3 and had an assist in Game 2.
-McCarty had 2 assist (including on the game winner in Game 1) and then scored a memorable series clinching goal in game 4

98 Wings:

-The 98 Playoffs was where Tomas Holmstrom really emerged as that PP net front pest he'd be for the next 14 years. He was tied (with Doug Brown) for the lead in points for the Red Wings in the finals with 1 goal and 4 assists
-Kris Draper, who up to that point was the Red Wings only regular forward to not score a goal, had the big OT winner in game 2 to help the Wings come back from being down 3-1 and then 4-2 in the 3rd.

09 Wings:

-Justin Abdelkader had played 4 NHL regular season games and then scored 2 when he dressed for 3 games in the 2009 finals.
 

Iapyi

Registered User
Apr 19, 2017
5,072
2,361
Canadian Prairies
In the 1947-48 season 24 year old Harry Watson scored 5 goals and 1 assist in 4 games played in the finals. The entire Red Wings team scored 7 goals in those finals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VanIslander

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,126
Hockeytown, MI
in 2004, it did look like he was on the cusp succeeding sakic and forsberg as the avs' main guy, though. he led the team in scoring for most of the year and was within spitting distance of leading the league up to his regular season-ending injury in march.

He had 79 points in 69 games to Martin St. Louis’ 84 points in 71 games at the time of the injury. Could have been interesting to see if the Avalanche would have had four different Hart nominees in four-consecutive seasons from 2001-2004 (even with the injury, he outscored Jarome Iginla, who finished 2nd place in Hart voting, by 6 points). Without the lockouts, he might have gotten pretty close to being a 1000-point player too.

Going into the 2001 Stanley Cup Finals, I don’t know that out of Drury, Hejduk, and Tanguay too many people would have expected Tanguay to have the best career.
 

Iapyi

Registered User
Apr 19, 2017
5,072
2,361
Canadian Prairies
1931-32.

21 year old Busher Jackson scored 5 goals and 2 assists for 7 points in 3 games.
22 year old Charlie Conacher scored 3 goals and 3 assists for 6 points in 3 games.

Toronto Maple Leafs destroyed the NY Rangers in the series.

The more recent examples pale in comparison.
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,584
15,948
Going into the 2001 Stanley Cup Finals, I don’t know that out of Drury, Hejduk, and Tanguay too many people would have expected Tanguay to have the best career.

i totally did. just watching tanguay that game, he was so smooth, he saw the ice so well, was so calm and composed, he really looked like a young little sakic to me. i assumed he'd end up putting on some weight and give himself the separation strength to play in traffic in a way that he never really ended up doing.

idk, i guess young tanguay really made an impression on me. i really did imagine him taking over in a few years the way jagr distinguished himself from the other good young players and took over for mario in pittsburgh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quoipourquoi

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
19,110
15,573
Tokyo, Japan
Alex Delvecchio (aged 22), Detroit 1955 -- 6 goals in 7 games (won)
Steve Payne (aged 21), Minnesota 1981 -- 5 goals in 5 games (lost)
Brent Sutter (aged 20), NY Islanders 1983 -- 3 goals in 4 games, and team best +7 (won)
Alex Kovalev (aged 21), NY Rangers 1994 -- 4 goals in 7 games (won)
Peter Forsberg (aged 21), Colorado 1996 -- 3 goals in 4 games (won)

If you extend "young" to 23, you could throw in Gretzky & Messier in 1984, Tikkanen in 1988, Simpson in 1990.
 

Staniowski

Registered User
Jan 13, 2018
3,508
3,057
The Maritimes
19-year-old Pat LaFontaine scored 2 goals in 22 seconds at the start of the 3rd period in Game 5 of the '84 finals, the night the Oilers won their first Cup. He joined the Islanders after the Olympics. Of course, he was a big prospect at the time.

Claude Lemieux in '86.
 
  • Like
Reactions: double5son10

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,133
6,428
I remember in the 1981 Stanley Cup Finals DINO CICCARELLI set the NHL record for rookie playoff scoring during the Finals when he scored goals in each of the first three games against the dynasty Islanders, finishing with 14 goals, 21 points in 19 playoff games.
 

mrhockey193195

Registered User
Nov 14, 2006
6,507
1,994
Denver, CO
Kovalev certainly had announced his presence before, but I don't think he scored a more iconic goal for the rest of his career than this one at the end of game 3 of the 94 finals. Everyone in the hockey world knew who he was after this one.

 
  • Like
Reactions: quoipourquoi

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
4,911
« Alexei Kovalov »

That's actually more accurate than "Kovalev". The North American tendency to not only mis-pronounce but also mis-spell Russian names when transliterating them to the Latin alphabet is notorious, from "Mikhail Gorbachev" (it's Gorbachov) to "Alexei Kovalev" (it's Kovalyov).

Fyodorov, not Fedorov
Syomin, not Semin
Chernyshov, not Chernyshev
 

The Panther

Registered User
Mar 25, 2014
19,110
15,573
Tokyo, Japan
That's actually more accurate than "Kovalev". The North American tendency to not only mis-pronounce but also mis-spell Russian names when transliterating them to the Latin alphabet is notorious, from "Mikhail Gorbachev" (it's Gorbachov) to "Alexei Kovalev" (it's Kovalyov).

Fyodorov, not Fedorov
Syomin, not Semin
Chernyshov, not Chernyshev
Spelling of everything in English (including Anglo-names) is pretty much arbitrary (this isn't German), so there's no sense in expecting transliterated Russian names to be consistent. In any case, don't the Russian players themselves approve or suggest the anglicized spelling of their names? I'm pretty sure somebody asks them beforehand. Basically, if the team/NHL is using fewer letters (and fewer "y"s) it's going to be easier for English speakers to remember, which is a good thing.

The important matter is not spelling, but pronunciation. I'm completely ignorant of anything to do with the Russian language, but I assume North American broadcasters cannot pronounce names well.

One thing I admired Bob Cole for was his ability to pronounce French names very well. (It was painful hearing broadcasters say "Mario Lem-YOUUUUUU".) But if you're looking for correct Russian pronunciation... it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fresh Prince

Staniowski

Registered User
Jan 13, 2018
3,508
3,057
The Maritimes
Spelling of everything in English (including Anglo-names) is pretty much arbitrary (this isn't German), so there's no sense in expecting transliterated Russian names to be consistent. In any case, don't the Russian players themselves approve or suggest the anglicized spelling of their names? I'm pretty sure somebody asks them beforehand. Basically, if the team/NHL is using fewer letters (and fewer "y"s) it's going to be easier for English speakers to remember, which is a good thing.

The important matter is not spelling, but pronunciation. I'm completely ignorant of anything to do with the Russian language, but I assume North American broadcasters cannot pronounce names well.

One thing I admired Bob Cole for was his ability to pronounce French names very well. (It was painful hearing broadcasters say "Mario Lem-YOUUUUUU".) But if you're looking for correct Russian pronunciation... it's not gonna happen anytime soon.
A lot of mispronunciation of names.

French names, like Lapointe.

Probably most Eastern European names - Kaberle...

Darryl Sydor, whose name was mispronounced by everybody, said he gave up on others saying his name correctly when he was in junior.

Probably even some English names....
 

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
4,911
Spelling of everything in English (including Anglo-names) is pretty much arbitrary (this isn't German), so there's no sense in expecting transliterated Russian names to be consistent.

But they are pretty consistent. It's almost always Kovalev instead of Kovalyov, Kulemin instead of Kulyomin and so on. The only well-known example where they made an exception is when a guy with the first name Semyon entered the league. They figured it wouldn't be a good look to have someone spelled "Semen" on the roster, so they restored to the correct spelling for a change.

In any case, don't the Russian players themselves approve or suggest the anglicized spelling of their names? I'm pretty sure somebody asks them beforehand.

I doubt it and anyway, a young Russian athlete is unlikely to have the motivation or even education to start arguing about the spelling and pronunciation of his name in a foreign alphabet and language. I mean, even the Soviet news agency finally surrendered to the perpetual misspelling of "Gorbachev" in the English-speaking world in 1988.

Basically, if the team/NHL is using fewer letters (and fewer "y"s) it's going to be easier for English speakers to remember, which is a good thing.

I'd argue that spelling the name right with one additional letter (Kovalyov) or somewhat right with zero additional letters (Kovalov) trumps remembering a wrong name, but whatever.

The important matter is not spelling, but pronunciation. I'm completely ignorant of anything to do with the Russian language, but I assume North American broadcasters cannot pronounce names well.

Right and that's exactly where the fact that Russian uses a different alphabet offers an advantage. Save for a few diacritical signs, French uses the same alphabet as English so you can read it - but to pronounce it? That's hard for anyone who isn't familiar with the language. Russian on the other hand isn't even readable if you don't know the Cyrillic letters so you have to transliterate it into your own alphabet, and in that process you are able to choose a spelling that mirrors closely how to pronounce the word. You don't use the original Ковалёв anyway, then why not turn it into Kovalyov instead of Kovalev?

But the situation is what it is and I don't expect it to change, that much I agree with you on. I merely wanted to point out that the pronunciation ("Kovalov") the announcer used is actually closer to being correct than the pronunciation and spelling commonly used (even by the NHL).
 
Last edited:

Theokritos

Global Moderator
Apr 6, 2010
12,538
4,911
Should point out that Romanization has been formalized by the IIHF as a result of Varlamov's complaint, and that it wasn't a one-off:
New rules for Russian names

Thanks. The key point is:
Simply, the English transcription didn’t reflect how Russians really pronounce their names. And this is the whole point of transcription – to write Russian names with Roman letters so it comes as close as possible to the original pronunciation. (...) Take a name like Fyodor. It most places it was “Fedor” which is wrong. The Pittsburgh star Malkin’s first name must be spelled Yevgeni and not “Evgeni” (...)
 

vadim sharifijanov

Registered User
Oct 10, 2007
28,584
15,948
Darryl Sydor, whose name was mispronounced by everybody, said he gave up on others saying his name correctly when he was in junior.

oh huh, what is the correct pronunciation of sydor? i can't even place what language it's from. (i guess if i had to take a wild guess i'd guess ZOO-dor?)

it's a weird thing though. i mean, there was one time when a cbc guy, i think scott oake on after hours, pronounces jacob markstrom's first name with the correct y sound. but markstrom corrects him and says it's jacob, with the english j. so oake looks at him and asks, "but what does your mother call you?" and markstrom blushes.

and then all of the third, fourth, ninth generation anglo north americans who by the standards of their native languages would be butchering their last names. that said, the french name thing bugs me too, at least in canada. i mean, most of us presumably learned at least a few years of primary school french where they taught us what sounds the letters are supposed to make. if you can pronounce messier, you can damn well pronounce savard without the d.


I'd argue that spelling the name right with one additional letter (Kovalyov) or somewhat right with zero additional letters (Kovalov) trumps remembering a wrong name, but whatever.

no idea about ukrainean-derived names, but would alexander korolyuk be from the more precise romanization? extra ys always feel more precise to me.

for some reason i always pronounced kamensky "kamyensky." i feel like one of the first times i heard his name on tv it was pronounced that way. but can anyone who knows tell me if that's even correct?


but in any event

29072c56009da7284ce4fb62007287c2.jpg
 

Staniowski

Registered User
Jan 13, 2018
3,508
3,057
The Maritimes
oh huh, what is the correct pronunciation of sydor? i can't even place what language it's from. (i guess if i had to take a wild guess i'd guess ZOO-dor?)

it's a weird thing though. i mean, there was one time when a cbc guy, i think scott oake on after hours, pronounces jacob markstrom's first name with the correct y sound. but markstrom corrects him and says it's jacob, with the english j. so oake looks at him and asks, "but what does your mother call you?" and markstrom blushes.

and then all of the third, fourth, ninth generation anglo north americans who by the standards of their native languages would be butchering their last names. that said, the french name thing bugs me too, at least in canada. i mean, most of us presumably learned at least a few years of primary school french where they taught us what sounds the letters are supposed to make. if you can pronounce messier, you can damn well pronounce savard without the d.




no idea about ukrainean-derived names, but would alexander korolyuk be from the more precise romanization? extra ys always feel more precise to me.

for some reason i always pronounced kamensky "kamyensky." i feel like one of the first times i heard his name on tv it was pronounced that way. but can anyone who knows tell me if that's even correct?


but in any event

29072c56009da7284ce4fb62007287c2.jpg
I think Sydor is of one of the slavic languages. Perhaps somebody else can confirm this.

I'm going by memory, but I think he said it was properly pronounced something like "SEE-der" (or like the tree, Cedar).

As mentioned, he said he gave up early in his career. Everybody instinctively wanted to say "si-DOOR", so that's what it became.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->