Value of: You need a goalie?

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
28,409
25,297
Ontario, Canada
I don't think the Penguins will trade Murray in the division. If Murray returns to form, JR is going to look like a dunce for gifting a team in the division that good of a goalie.

Appreciate the feedback and good point on divisional trade but would Bean be decent enough to at least think about it?
Possible replacement PPQB for Letang, think he needs to be protected though?
Pay OTT/DET to take JJ to allow for other moves?
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,386
77,969
Redmond, WA
Appreciate the feedback and good point on divisional trade but would Bean be decent enough to at least think about it?
Possible replacement PPQB for Letang, think he needs to be protected though?
Pay OTT/DET to take JJ to allow for other moves?

I think other teams will be offering attractive enough assets that the Penguins won't have to send him to Carolina. I think Ottawa (Islanders 1st or their 2nd plus another 2nd) or Colorado (their 1st) make more sense, even if Bean is a better asset than either of those returns. Just not worth the risk of gifting an up and coming team a potentially elite goalie.
 
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Chan790

Registered User
Sponsor
Jan 24, 2012
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Bingy town, NY
Appreciate the feedback and good point on divisional trade but would Bean be decent enough to at least think about it?
Possible replacement PPQB for Letang, think he needs to be protected though?
Pay OTT/DET to take JJ to allow for other moves?

The problem there, as I said elsewhere (and may have said here. I'm too lazy to reread the thread.) is that I think Carolina's interest is in getting high-level goalie potential...I don't think they have much interest in paying for established goalie talent (it doesn't really fit their cost matrix...this is an organization that puts $ values on everything.) like Murray (or Lehner or Markstrom) but rather in guys like Demko and Jarry. (Buy low on higher risk, profit more when it works out.) Otherwise, they're comfortable continuing to look at undervalued vet goalies in tandem on short deals.

So...Bean's (or the high picks are) probably only there for Jarry, not Murray.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
28,409
25,297
Ontario, Canada
The problem there, as I said elsewhere (and may have said here. I'm too lazy to reread the thread.) is that I think Carolina's interest is in getting high-level goalie potential...I don't think they have much interest in paying for established goalie talent (it doesn't really fit their cost matrix...this is an organization that puts $ values on everything.) like Murray (or Lehner or Markstrom) but rather in guys like Demko and Jarry. (Buy low on higher risk, profit more when it works out.) Otherwise, they're comfortable continuing to look at undervalued vet goalies in tandem on short deals.

So...Bean's (or the high picks are) probably only there for Jarry, not Murray.

Ya it makes sense to try and buy an emerging guy but doubtful either teams wants to move on from their young tendies.
Would CAR not want a more proven guy?
Not that they need to hurry, they have their core locked up for at least 4 years (except Dougie) but just seems the time is now to pay for a legit guy.
Andersen/Murray through trade or Markstrom as free agent?
I say veteran guy because the thought is CAR may draft Askarov if still on board but he's likely at least 3 years away.
They wouldn't need to focus on goal-tending for the next 4-5 years at minimum.
 

GoldiFox

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
13,287
32,030
If they did buyout Reimer or retain him to OTT/DET, would they not offer up a deal like Bean for Murray as a base?
Murray and Mrazek would be a good duo for next year.

Murray would be pretty far down my list of trade candidates, especially for the cost of Jake Bean who I believe could be a solid top-4 D. He was a sub-0.900 goalie this year. I don't want to hand Pittsburgh another Dumoulin. Murray can go to arbitration and walk in a year. I'd much rather send a bad contract to Vegas for MAF, sign Markstrom, or target one of Raanta/Merzlikins/Korpisalo. I'd probably rather just keep Mrazek/Reimer for next year than trade acquire Murray.

(with Lehner gone): Sign Markstrom > trade for Raanta/Merzlikins/Korpi >> trade for Demko > trade for MAF > trade for Georgiev > trade for Andersen > keep Mrazek/Reimer > trade for Murray

I'd say whether or not the Canes nab Askarov in the draft will also play a role in what route they take.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
28,409
25,297
Ontario, Canada
Murray would be pretty far down my list of trade candidates, especially for the cost of Jake Bean who I believe could be a solid top-4 D. He was a sub-0.900 goalie this year. I don't want to hand Pittsburgh another Dumoulin. Murray can go to arbitration and walk in a year. I'd much rather send a bad contract to Vegas for MAF, sign Markstrom, or target one of Raanta/Merzlikins/Korpisalo. I'd probably rather just keep Mrazek/Reimer for next year than trade acquire Murray.

(with Lehner gone): Sign Markstrom > trade for Raanta/Merzlikins/Korpi >> trade for Demko > trade for MAF > trade for Georgiev > trade for Andersen > keep Mrazek/Reimer > trade for Murray

I'd say whether or not the Canes nab Askarov in the draft will also play a role in what route they take.

I think Murray would rebound behind a better D in CAR than PIT but can understand the hesitation to trade within division, some PIT fans have already noted that point.
 

Mac Attack

Beefy Legs
Aug 15, 2018
1,166
725
My guesses:

-Lehner re-signs in Vegas for 5 years at $5 million AAV
-Crawford re-signs in Chicago for 1 year at $3.5 million AAV
-Khudobin re-signs in Dalas for 3 years at $3.5 million
-Markstrom signs in Toronto for 6 years at $6 million AAV
-Holtby signs in Calgary for 5 years at $6.5 million AAV
-Murray is traded to Colorado for Colorado's 1st
-Andersen is traded to Carolina for a 2nd and 3rd (probably Carolina's 2nd and Buffalo's 3rd)
-Fleury gets bought out by Vegas (or Vegas pays someone to buy him out) and signs back in Pittsburgh on an underpriced contract to be the 1B
-Greiss signs in Edmonton for 3 years at $3.5 million

I think this will be the most active goalie market in recent history this off-season. I didn't even touch on guys like Francouz/Grubauer and Reimer/Mrazek, who have to be moved if their teams acquire another goalie. Free agents like Talbot, Elliott and Dell also weren't addressed.
Murray for Colorado's first? I sure hope we don't do that.
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
40,243
6,036
Winter Haven Florida
My guesses:

-Lehner re-signs in Vegas for 5 years at $5 million AAV
-Crawford re-signs in Chicago for 1 year at $3.5 million AAV
-Khudobin re-signs in Dalas for 3 years at $3.5 million
-Markstrom signs in Toronto for 6 years at $6 million AAV
-Holtby signs in Calgary for 5 years at $6.5 million AAV
-Murray is traded to Colorado for Colorado's 1st
-Andersen is traded to Carolina for a 2nd and 3rd (probably Carolina's 2nd and Buffalo's 3rd)
-Fleury gets bought out by Vegas (or Vegas pays someone to buy him out) and signs back in Pittsburgh on an underpriced contract to be the 1B
-Greiss signs in Edmonton for 3 years at $3.5 million

I think this will be the most active goalie market in recent history this off-season. I didn't even touch on guys like Francouz/Grubauer and Reimer/Mrazek, who have to be moved if their teams acquire another goalie. Free agents like Talbot, Elliott and Dell also weren't addressed.
I'm pretty sure that Andersen had already said that he would never accept a trade to Carolina, That has been reported several times here on this site. That he wont play there.
 

Chayos

Registered User
Mar 6, 2003
4,922
1,152
Winnipeg
My guesses:

-Lehner re-signs in Vegas for 5 years at $5 million AAV
-Crawford re-signs in Chicago for 1 year at $3.5 million AAV
-Khudobin re-signs in Dalas for 3 years at $3.5 million
-Markstrom signs in Toronto for 6 years at $6 million AAV
-Holtby signs in Calgary for 5 years at $6.5 million AAV
-Murray is traded to Colorado for Colorado's 1st
-Andersen is traded to Carolina for a 2nd and 3rd (probably Carolina's 2nd and Buffalo's 3rd)
-Fleury gets bought out by Vegas (or Vegas pays someone to buy him out) and signs back in Pittsburgh on an underpriced contract to be the 1B
-Greiss signs in Edmonton for 3 years at $3.5 million

I think this will be the most active goalie market in recent history this off-season. I didn't even touch on guys like Francouz/Grubauer and Reimer/Mrazek, who have to be moved if their teams acquire another goalie. Free agents like Talbot, Elliott and Dell also weren't addressed.
I like Greiss to Edmonton as it keeps goal tending costs similar to now.

One question, how much does Murray sign for in Colorado?
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
27,572
3,656
Da Big Apple
2020:

Holtby - CGY (5yr x $5.5 million)

Makrstrom - CHI or BUF (5yr x $6 mil) they move out one of their older D (CDH, Maata, Murphy and maybe Saad as well to sign Alien and Kubalik)

BUF needs to lock down a legit #1, they move Ullmark in a trade.

Murray - to COL or CAR for picks and prospects (4-5 years x $5.5 million)

Lehner - VGK (5yrs x $6 mil)

Ullmark - traded to DET for a prospect.
Decent stopgap for a couple years.

Georgey - traded to WSH, dont think WSH has to protect Samsonov right? They rock the two young Russians who should be cheap for next 2 years.
Both can be 2a options until Samsonov fully takes off.

Greiss - VAN, PHI or MIN to be 2a or backup their young star goalies in the making.

Crawford - cheap deal to come back to CHI behind Markstrom. 1 yr deals fr here on out

2021:

Rask - closes out a solid career in BOS, if he comes back, BOS gives him a decent 2yr deal to close out their contending window.

Andersen - traded to CAR, COL or BUF?
Mrazek or Ullmark to TOR with a good prospect/pick attached

Binner - stays in STL

Allen - flipped/retained at deadline to EDM if MON is out of playoff race.

Raanta - moved to OTT along with a prospect + short term cap dump who OTT can flip for assets
ARI will want to chop big salary

Gru - stays with COL to chase a Cup, 1b option if they trade for Andersen type.
Francouz is 30 and only playd 36 games so far. Or they do trade Gru and go with Andersen/Francouz.

Mrazek - some team should pay him decently to be a stopgap or stays in CAR as similar 1b option if CAR makes trade for Andersen


Reasonable.
Holtby picked the wrong time to get max moolah.
I could see as low as 4.5 x 4 if he wants security.
A gig somewhere, no prob; top $, = prob.

Geo the cost is 2nd +, the + depending on slotting of the 2nd.
NY should not be overly picky to squeeze very best deal, but expect in that ballpark.

My hunch is NY will get a 2nd from somewhere and add that to Geo and send him to DET for their 2nd, which is the best 2nd possible.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
23,825
5,639
Alexandria, VA
Thaanks for the feedback.
UPL could be brought up next year if Hutton needs maintenance days no?
If you're happy with Ullmark then that's good as well.

I think Ullmark would be fine

UPL had surgery on his hips last year so hes still recovering. He should be fine from it. I dont need to see the need to rush him

Buffalo has another goalie they drafted in 2014 Jonas Johansson who has been playing in Rochester. He was called up last season and played about 6 games IIRC. He could also be ysed.

Im unsure if he has to clear waivers this off season or in exempt for a 4th year that goalies are. He played a few games in the AHL late in 16/17 season then played last 3 yrs in ECHL/AHL. He is 24
 

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
28,409
25,297
Ontario, Canada
I think Ullmark would be fine

UPL had surgery on his hips last year so hes still recovering. He should be fine from it. I dont need to see the need to rush him

Buffalo has another goalie they drafted in 2014 Jonas Johansson who has been playing in Rochester. He was called up last season and played about 6 games IIRC. He could also be ysed.

Im unsure if he has to clear waivers this off season or in exempt for a 4th year that goalies are. He played a few games in the AHL late in 16/17 season then played last 3 yrs in ECHL/AHL. He is 24

Looks like he's free and clear until next year.

Screenshot_20200911-173150_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
23,825
5,639
Alexandria, VA

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
28,409
25,297
Ontario, Canada
thats another reason why...if they want o have UPL be the main guy in rochester they could use Jonas as a back up. Then they sign one of these AHL/NHL tweener goalies to travel between the two if needed of Jonas doesnt work out well. They had hamburgler in 19/20.

May bookmark this thread because I felt BUF needed better goaltending when they were riding high at start of the year the last few years. Their fans told me otherwise and said Hutton and Ullmark were fine.

Then they crashed and saw some of their fans blaming goaltending.
I get there are still other issues but will link this thread to the BUF board if they crash again and miss out on playoffs without upgrading goaltending.
 

Djp

Registered User
Jul 28, 2012
23,825
5,639
Alexandria, VA
May bookmark this thread because I felt BUF needed better goaltending when they were riding high at start of the year the last few years. Their fans told me otherwise and said Hutton and Ullmark were fine.

Then they crashed and saw some of their fans blaming goaltending.
I get there are still other issues but will link this thread to the BUF board if they crash again and miss out on playoffs without upgrading goaltending.
May bookmark this thread because I felt BUF needed better goaltending when they were riding high at start of the year the last few years. Their fans told me otherwise and said Hutton and Ullmark were fine.

Then they crashed and saw some of their fans blaming goaltending.
I get there are still other issues but will link this thread to the BUF board if they crash again and miss out on playoffs without upgrading goaltending.

many are short sighted and want to blame the goalie.

mid season i went through their games and looked at record and goalie in W/L record based on goals for and against.. Buffalo at 2 or under they tended to lose.
 

Team Cozens

Registered User
Oct 24, 2013
6,566
3,863
Burlington
May bookmark this thread because I felt BUF needed better goaltending when they were riding high at start of the year the last few years. Their fans told me otherwise and said Hutton and Ullmark were fine.

Then they crashed and saw some of their fans blaming goaltending.
I get there are still other issues but will link this thread to the BUF board if they crash again and miss out on playoffs without upgrading goaltending.
Sabres absolutely need an upgrade in net and Friedman has indicated they are looking. My ideal targets would be Kuemper or Demko.
 

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