OT: Yinzer Thoughts pt 1: Greatest Athletes of all Time

[BladeRunner66]

 

[Winger for Hire]

I mean, okay, I appreciate you going through the data like that. I'd still say his career was "respectable" and that you are being way too harsh on him. Again, baseball wasn't his primary sport. If people could get afforded opportunity on name alone, Michael Jordan would have gotten an at bat in the major league. Just curious, how does Sander's baseball career compare to Bo Jackson's?

Bo was similar to Sanders, but a many levels above. His legend is greater than his actual play, when it comes to baseball. Bo, as it stands was a good player and every season before his injuries got to him his stats improved. He got hurt after a season where he slashed .272/.342/.523 and that was probably his plateau, but with the injuries, we'll never know for sure. His floor was a Wil Myers type player... will get you 20 HR/20 SB on average. His ceiling was a 30/30 player and might have been able to sniff at the coveted 40/40. However is defense was pretty bad and might have been better off as DH, but he did have a good arm for a corner OF spot. He also sold out for power and had a 32% K rate (with a 7% walk rate) which, even in the current high K era, is appalling.

Looking at the advanced numbers you're looking at:

112 OPS+ (12% better than league average)
111 wRC+ (11% better)
.342 wOBA (above average)

So the numbers show a good player who would have a Mark Trumbo/Wil Myers type career. And this is where the legend comes in. He slots in as a solid middle of the order bat while focusing on another sport. Use that time from football to improve his OF play and general plate discipline and you can see where the legend was rightfully built from (as well as the amazing stories scouts have from scouting him in college).

Seriously, look his this scouting report: https://deadspin.com/1985-bo-jackson-scouting-report-the-best-pure-athlete-494082918

Bo was a legit and respectable baseball player. Deion was an athletic specialist.

 

[Beau Knows]

My list:

- Jordan. Made basketball a global phenomenon. Transcended the sport and became a cultural icon and the first sports star to be a truly global brand. LeBron might be up there for quality and maybe none of them sniffs Wilt Chamberlain for dominance. But Jordan just had "it" in a way I have not seen in any other sports star.

- C.Ronaldo/Leo Messi. Have sustained unparalleled levels of excellence for more than a decade in the most popular, competitive and global sport. There are few geographical or socioeconomic barriers to football, and for two guys to go neck and neck breaking records without no-one really close for this long, with this amount of competition.... is insane.

- Usain Bolt. Fastest man in history. How can it be more basic than that? Maintained unreal dominance over three Olympic periods. And did so with style and class.

- Michael Phelps. Unparalleled. Long term dominance in an extremely competitive sport globally across numerous disciplines.

- Federer/Nadal. Like Leo and CR7. Go together like a horse and carriage. You can't have one without the other.

- Mario. I know that one should say Gretzky, but I think Mario's story is more compelling because of all the adversity, and because for a long time he was the show, whereas Wayne to a much bigger extent had help when setting his unbeatable records. Anyway, we're Penguin fans, right?

- Lin Dan. From out of left field here, but Lin Dan is the best badminton player in history and a double Olympic singles champion. Badminton is one of the most popular sports in the world (in terms of number of players) with China and Asia dominating almost completely except for the rare player from my native Denmark, so to stay on top for a decade in a sport where speed and agility is essential like he did is unique. Anyway, Lin Dan is a rock star out here, and is/was electric to watch if you know anything about the game at all.

- Mike Tyson. I know there are better boxers of course and before my time the Ali thing and all with more compelling story lines. But Tyson's prime was when I was growing up and got out of bed at 3AM with my father to watch the Most Evil Man in the World deliver something one always feared would be death. He owned. He was just freakish during his prime and you HAD to watch. The whole world had to watch.

Good list, one the few lists here not completely dominated by American sports leagues/athletes.

Disagree on Mario though, I don't think he dominated enough to be put up with like the top 5-10 athletes in history. Gretzky did though.

 

[HandshakeLine]

My beef with Tyson as a GOAT in boxing is that he had some huge flaws in his game that were easily exploited once his training slipped a little after D'Amato's death. In his prime though, he was a terrifying fighter though, great movement and punishing power.

But I'd still put Greb over him. Greb fought over 300 times, a large chunk of which he fought with a blind eye and giving up 10-20 lbs. to his opponents. He was mean. He was dirty. But he was a hell of a boxer in one of the best eras of boxing.

Sugar Ray Robinson would be my safe bet for GOAT boxer, but you can make a really good argument for Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, or Archie Moore (as a really dark horse).

 

[Tender Rip]

Good list, one the few lists here not completely dominated by American sports leagues/athletes.

Disagree on Mario though, I don't think he dominated enough to be put up with like the top 5-10 athletes in history. Gretzky did though.

Thanks. I kinda agree on Mario, also because hockey is not a genuinely global sport, so as much as we are on a Pens/hockey forum I was iffy about including it.
That of course goes even more so for more particularly American sports - not questioning anyone's list or anything. Only natural to include those legendary on that side of the pond.

I should have definitely included Karelin though.

 

[Tender Rip]

@handshakeline

I mean, I think for the kind of topic here quite obviously Tyson is not a good mention as such. There are many others who dominated more, for longer, were technically more superior etc. He was flawed in many ways.

He was just the only boxer I ever had a kick from following. I don't particularly enjoy boxing, even if my father always tried to get me interested in the legends... tapes of Ali and Sugar Ray etc.... but Tyson for a while there was magnetic and just... unhuman almost. At least that's how I remember it.