OT: Yinzer Thoughts pt 1: Greatest Athletes of all Time

[ColePens]

Uh, Lebron James isn't on your just missed list?

Bolt/Lebron and many others people discussed here are deserving. Like I said - my list isn't perfect. It's my list. I think w/o Jordan, Lebron is on that list 10 million percent. But it's just my perspective.

edit: Also - having to leave Cleveland to win championships damage my criteria. I know that sounds weird. Just my criteria. I'm no expert.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bolt/Lebron and many others people discussed here are deserving. Like I said - my list isn't perfect. It's my list. I think w/o Jordan, Lebron is on that list 10 million percent. But it's just my perspective.

edit: Also - having to leave Cleveland to win championships damage my criteria. I know that sounds weird. Just my criteria. I'm no expert.

Your list is better than mine as I don't follow a lot of other sports. I live in Cleveland too so my whole time here it was Lebron, Lebron, Lebron so I might have some recency bias.

Totally fair perspective.

 

[Syrinx]

I really think this thread needs more Jim Thorpe. Two way football player. Track star. Baseball player. His story and athleticism are incredible.

 

[ColePens]

I really think this thread needs more Jim Thorpe. Two way football player. Track star. Baseball player. His story and athleticism are incredible.

He's on literally every list i ever see. I wish I knew more about the man.

 

[Tender Rip]

My list:

- Jordan. Made basketball a global phenomenon. Transcended the sport and became a cultural icon and the first sports star to be a truly global brand. LeBron might be up there for quality and maybe none of them sniffs Wilt Chamberlain for dominance. But Jordan just had "it" in a way I have not seen in any other sports star.

- C.Ronaldo/Leo Messi. Have sustained unparalleled levels of excellence for more than a decade in the most popular, competitive and global sport. There are few geographical or socioeconomic barriers to football, and for two guys to go neck and neck breaking records without no-one really close for this long, with this amount of competition.... is insane.

- Usain Bolt. Fastest man in history. How can it be more basic than that? Maintained unreal dominance over three Olympic periods. And did so with style and class.

- Michael Phelps. Unparalleled. Long term dominance in an extremely competitive sport globally across numerous disciplines.

- Federer/Nadal. Like Leo and CR7. Go together like a horse and carriage. You can't have one without the other.

- Mario. I know that one should say Gretzky, but I think Mario's story is more compelling because of all the adversity, and because for a long time he was the show, whereas Wayne to a much bigger extent had help when setting his unbeatable records. Anyway, we're Penguin fans, right?

- Lin Dan. From out of left field here, but Lin Dan is the best badminton player in history and a double Olympic singles champion. Badminton is one of the most popular sports in the world (in terms of number of players) with China and Asia dominating almost completely except for the rare player from my native Denmark, so to stay on top for a decade in a sport where speed and agility is essential like he did is unique. Anyway, Lin Dan is a rock star out here, and is/was electric to watch if you know anything about the game at all.

- Mike Tyson. I know there are better boxers of course and before my time the Ali thing and all with more compelling story lines. But Tyson's prime was when I was growing up and got out of bed at 3AM with my father to watch the Most Evil Man in the World deliver something one always feared would be death. He owned. He was just freakish during his prime and you HAD to watch. The whole world had to watch.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Hanks beat me to it. I grew some ridiculously dominant West Indies and Australian teams (well, dominant over England...). Then I learned about what Bradman did and... it just doesn't compute. There's a strong argument for Bradman being the most statistically dominant guy in his own sport ever.

The other really one I'll add is Jonah Lomu. Probably not the best rugby player of all time, but in terms of impact and changing the game he was huge. Literally. He is rugby like Michael Jordan is Basketball in Cole's example or golf in Wheelz.

I don’t really watch or follow rugby but I did a bit when it came to Jonah Lomu. The man was unstoppable so dominant against his peers. No one that big could run that fast. If he couldn’t get around someone (which he usually could) he’d just go straight through them.

Sad but inspirational story. A year after he started playing internationally he developed a serious kidney disease had some time off but came back and don’t Nate’s the game. Years later having to go on dialysis he still came back to play. Then he had to have a kidney transplant and even tried to come back. He made it to club level but broke his ankle at the end of the season and that finished his international career. Sadly passed away a few years ago at 40 with the kidney disease finally getting him.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Wa-Tho-Huk

 

[Peat]

I don’t really watch or follow rugby but I did a bit when it came to Jonah Lomu. The man was unstoppable so dominant against his peers. No one that big could run that fast. If he couldn’t get around someone (which he usually could) he’d just go straight through them.

Sad but inspirational story. A year after he started playing internationally he developed a serious kidney disease had some time off but came back and don’t Nate’s the game. Years later having to go on dialysis he still came back to play. Then he had to have a kidney transplant and even tried to come back. He made it to club level but broke his ankle at the end of the season and that finished his international career. Sadly passed away a few years ago at 40 with the kidney disease finally getting him.

Yeah. Very few people have had to struggle against the adversity he did just to stay fit enough to have a career. Mario-esque in that regard - arguably worse I'd say, given that Mario had a longer career iirc. And is still alive.

The only big thing is that Jonah existed in the amateur era. I'm not sure whether he'd have had the same level of dominance today now that everyone's at peak physicality. There's some incredible units out there and while they score a lot, none of them carry the same fear factor.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Bruce Lee

 

[Sorry]

Senna

 

[RSPens]

There needs to be some love for GSP

 

[DanielPlainview]

Jonah Lomu

6'5" 265lbs WINGER. He basically played the rugby equivalent of WR at the size of a large TE. He'd have been Gronk before Gronk but with WR speed and agility.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Criteria: Sport domination and/or multi-sport achievements. No particular order.

1. Jim Thorpe. Unmatched athletic versatility. Well worth it just to read his wiki: Jim Thorpe - Wikipedia
2. Deion Sanders. In addition to being one of the best defensive backs of all-time, he had a simultaneous and respectable baseball career as well. Also an excellent kick/punt returner. Played some offense as well.
3. Nadia Comaneci. The Michael Jordan of gymnastics? First perfect 10 score ever recorded in competition. Revolutionized the sport.
4. Aleksandr Karelin. Lifetime Greco-Roman wrestling record of 887-2. Three straight Olympic gold medals followed by a sliver medal (sort of a controversial loss due to a rule change). He also holds a PhD which was devoted to countermeasures against suplex throws (dead serious).
5. Marianne Vos. Multiple time world and Olympic cycling champion across several disciplines: cyclocross, road and track racing.
6. Carl Lewis. Multiple gold medals over a variety of track disciplines. Longevity in the sport.
7. Dominik Hasek. His sv% measured against his peers is incredible by any standard. The most athletic goalie in history.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Deon was a less talented Billy Hamilton and circus draw when it comes to baseball. Kudos to him for making it to the MLB, but at best he was a useful pinch runner. I'd hardly call his baseball career respectable in relation to other players.

 

[lmfl123]

Kelly Slater. Probably GOAT in a sport where you could actually die on a bad day and are also possibly part of the food chain. Still going strong at 45+ yrs old too. In my opinion is easily top for this century. The combination of strength, endurance, body control, reflexes, and balance required to do what he does is very rare.

 

[Beauner]

I really think this thread needs more Jim Thorpe. Two way football player. Track star. Baseball player. His story and athleticism are incredible.

I was gonna say him too. Guy has a town named after him!

 

[UnrealMachine]

Deon was a less talented Billy Hamilton and circus draw when it comes to baseball. Kudos to him for making it to the MLB, but at best he was a useful pinch runner. I'd hardly call his baseball career respectable in relation to other players.

His batting average was 0.263 vs a league-wide batting average of 0.262 over his active years. He also led the league in triples one season despite only playing 97 games. Those aren't bad numbers at all, especially for a part-time player. If you have any objective facts to add then please feel free to provide them.

 

[Winger for Hire]

His batting average was 0.263 vs a league-wide batting average of 0.262 over his active years. He also led the league in triples one season despite only playing 97 games. Those aren't bad numbers at all, especially for a part-time player. If you have any objective facts to add then please feel free to provide them.

I'm happy to dive into some baseball numbers.

/cracks knuckles and fires up 80% of my internet bookmarks\

I'm not a batting average guy, but .263 isn't exactly an average to hang your hat on when it's a completely empty average. If there was some substance to it (power, run producing) then maybe we can value it some. Normally a league average batting average and below is tolerated when you're a power hitter or run producer as there is value to when you successfully put the ball in play, but when you have a league average batting average as a light hitting table setter type guy you're not getting much value out of it. He was a top of the order guy who got on base at a .319 clip, walked less often than most power hitters, was successful at stealing bases at an embarrassing low clip (74%) for a speedster, and struckout more than double the times he walked. You can begrudgingly live with a 74% success rate IF the player in question is getting on base and an above average to elite rate (.380 and above), but someone getting on base at under a .320 rate and getting caught stealing 26% of the time makes that .319 OB% value sink closer to .290.

Looking more at more advance metrics, his wOBA sat around the .317 mark (below average), OPS+ is 89 (11% worse than league average over his playing time), wRC+ settled in at 90 (10% under league average), accumulated 5.5 bWAR (3.2 in one good season) over his 641 game career (so 58% of his value came in 97 games/325 plate appearances), his fielding rates anywhere from "it'll do" to "actively giving away runs" depending on what defensive metrics you value and either way those valuations are not what you want to see from a premium defensive position.

All that being said, I'm not saying he was a failure as a baseball player, but I am saying his name carried more weight and afforded him more opportunities and at bats than his talent alone would have dictated. Do a blind look at his stats and it's not going to excite many people. You have a situational player who could maybe be platooned, but most left side platoon guys need to have some power, especially since he'd be moved to a corner OF spot.

Overall, he was a baseball player who played mostly on his name, not his talent or production.

 

[TooManyHumans]

Alex Honnold. He free solo climbed El Capitan in under 4 hours. Imo the greatest single athletic feat in recorded history. I have a hard time even comprehending it. I can't wait to see Free Solo, the documentary about it

 

[ColePens]

Alex Honnold. He free solo climbed El Capitan in under 4 hours. Imo the greatest single athletic feat in recorded history. I have a hard time even comprehending it. I can't wait to see Free Solo, the documentary about it

Followed him for quite some time now. His preparation separates himself from good to great. His prep time and understanding the climb is so important.

But free climbing is still psycho.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I have only one submission and you all must submit.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I'm happy to dive into some baseball numbers.

/cracks knuckles and fires up 80% of my internet bookmarks\

I'm not a batting average guy, but .263 isn't exactly an average to hang your hat on when it's a completely empty average. If there was some substance to it (power, run producing) then maybe we can value it some. Normally a league average batting average and below is tolerated when you're a power hitter or run producer as there is value to when you successfully put the ball in play, but when you have a league average batting average as a light hitting table setter type guy you're not getting much value out of it. He was a top of the order guy who got on base at a .319 clip, walked less often than most power hitters, was successful at stealing bases at an embarrassing low clip (74%) for a speedster, and struckout more than double the times he walked. You can begrudgingly live with a 74% success rate IF the player in question is getting on base and an above average to elite rate (.380 and above), but someone getting on base at under a .320 rate and getting caught stealing 26% of the time makes that .319 OB% value sink closer to .290.

Looking more at more advance metrics, his wOBA sat around the .317 mark (below average), OPS+ is 89 (11% worse than league average over his playing time), wRC+ settled in at 90 (10% under league average), accumulated 5.5 bWAR (3.2 in one good season) over his 641 game career (so 58% of his value came in 97 games/325 plate appearances), his fielding rates anywhere from "it'll do" to "actively giving away runs" depending on what defensive metrics you value and either way those valuations are not what you want to see from a premium defensive position.

All that being said, I'm not saying he was a failure as a baseball player, but I am saying his name carried more weight and afforded him more opportunities and at bats than his talent alone would have dictated. Do a blind look at his stats and it's not going to excite many people. You have a situational player who could maybe be platooned, but most left side platoon guys need to have some power, especially since he'd be moved to a corner OF spot.

Overall, he was a baseball player who played mostly on his name, not his talent or production.

I mean, okay, I appreciate you going through the data like that. I'd still say his career was "respectable" and that you are being way too harsh on him. Again, baseball wasn't his primary sport. If people could get afforded opportunity on name alone, Michael Jordan would have gotten an at bat in the major league. Just curious, how does Sander's baseball career compare to Bo Jackson's?

 

[Al Smith]

I'm happy to dive into some baseball numbers.

/cracks knuckles and fires up 80% of my internet bookmarks\

I'm not a batting average guy, but .263 isn't exactly an average to hang your hat on when it's a completely empty average. If there was some substance to it (power, run producing) then maybe we can value it some. Normally a league average batting average and below is tolerated when you're a power hitter or run producer as there is value to when you successfully put the ball in play, but when you have a league average batting average as a light hitting table setter type guy you're not getting much value out of it. He was a top of the order guy who got on base at a .319 clip, walked less often than most power hitters, was successful at stealing bases at an embarrassing low clip (74%) for a speedster, and struckout more than double the times he walked. You can begrudgingly live with a 74% success rate IF the player in question is getting on base and an above average to elite rate (.380 and above), but someone getting on base at under a .320 rate and getting caught stealing 26% of the time makes that .319 OB% value sink closer to .290.

Looking more at more advance metrics, his wOBA sat around the .317 mark (below average), OPS+ is 89 (11% worse than league average over his playing time), wRC+ settled in at 90 (10% under league average), accumulated 5.5 bWAR (3.2 in one good season) over his 641 game career (so 58% of his value came in 97 games/325 plate appearances), his fielding rates anywhere from "it'll do" to "actively giving away runs" depending on what defensive metrics you value and either way those valuations are not what you want to see from a premium defensive position.

All that being said, I'm not saying he was a failure as a baseball player, but I am saying his name carried more weight and afforded him more opportunities and at bats than his talent alone would have dictated. Do a blind look at his stats and it's not going to excite many people. You have a situational player who could maybe be platooned, but most left side platoon guys need to have some power, especially since he'd be moved to a corner OF spot.

Overall, he was a baseball player who played mostly on his name, not his talent or production.

I remember seeing a few Reds games when he was playing. I specifically remember seeing him run first-third (don't remember if he was pinch running or if he had gotten to first on his own accord), and it was pretty damn impressive and memorable just seeing him flat out sprint. I was never a big Sanders fan, because he and Woodson were always being compared, but he was indeed tremendous at CB (regardless of his so-so tackling) and frankly he was good enough in baseball to stay in the bigs for awhile with decent stats. That's quite an accomplishment and I'd definitely put him on the list, along with Bo Jackson.

Whoever had Carl Lewis on the list, I'd agree with that also. Basically Bolt's achievements plus the long jump record.

 

[HandshakeLine]

GOATs are ridiculous and silly.

That said, if we're ranking amazing Pittsburgh athletes, nobody gives enough love to Harry Greb.

 

[HandshakeLine]

To go back to @UnrealMachine's post, Karelin was scary good. Just an absolute beast who won several major championships with what would normally be career-ending injuries. Most of the Eastern bloc grappling scene regards him as probably GOAT regardless of sport or discipline.

The best athlete I've ever personally touched hands with is Lukáš Krpálek, the current judo heavyweight gold medalist- dude thinks about grappling like Lemieux thought about goalscoring-- he's just so many moves ahead of you that it's humbling, but I don't think he'd be classified as GOAT in judo, let alone in in any other form of grappling (though he's also a pretty good BJJ competitor).