Post-Game Talk: Yet another dumpster fire in Detroit

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MadDevil

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It took Zajac a while to get back to game speed last year, so I'll give Cory a few games before starting to worry. It would have helped if the team in front of him didn't decide to play like garbage too. Butcher in particular should buy Cory a round or two after tonight. Although to be fair on the one goal he was being asked to box out a guy like 8 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier than him.
 

tr83

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I wonder if they've preached defense to Zacha so much that he has lost confidence in his offense.
 

Tundra

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You think our best players taking dumbass penalties and making blind passes in the d-zone and our PP looking clueless on zone entries is a talent issue?

What exactly is Hynes' structure? "Fast attacking supportive" is probably the most simplistic and shallow system description I've ever heard of in hockey.

They play hard and usually outwork the opposition. But at the end of the day, this game is about talent.
 

None Shall Pass

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@None Shall Pass

And at what point, do we say ''This is who he is now?'' Will one more .90-something do that? Or do we need two more years? I gave him the benefit of the doubt after 16-17, it's one poor year. 2 poor years? It's hard to ignore now.

Sorry, couldn't quote your post from the old thread.

After 10 - 20 more games for me, though you and others had written him off as AHL fodder after the first period, where he stopped 11 of 12 shots. This board is absurd.

Sorry but not sorry, I was saying for the past two years that Cory was playing through something nagging. If you're bored, go look for the posts, because I know I was making them. I was beating those drums hard because it was obvious how he was laboring laterally and his slow recoveries.

As it turns out, I was right. And the surgery this offseason should have (In theory) corrected those issues.

Today was his first game that he started since the surgery. To be frank, he played a lot better than I thought he would have. He made some really great, tough saves tonight. I still think he was having some bad luck, too. I'll explain:

The first goal was not great, but whatever, literally every goalie will let up a couple of goals exactly like that one over the course of the season. Not great, but they're not all going to be gems. Call it bad if you want, you'll get only minimal argument from me.

The next two goals (and the waved off one) can be mostly blamed on the defensemen on ice at the time:

The waved off goal that was trapped under his pads, you can see our two defensemen staring at him, literally not moving at all. They're not even trying to box out the forward who potted the rebound. I forget who the two d-men were at the time.

The second goal is more of the same. Cory definitely left a decent rebound there, but that is the reason you have two d-men playing down low on a PK, to clear rebounds and box out forwards trying to get to those rebounds. Butcher, and to a lesser extent Severson, didn't even make an attempt to; unluckily enough, they were only killing the penalty because Mueller was in the box for getting his head punched in and it was Lovejoy's penalty. Rebounds are bound to happen. You have to mitigate what they can do to you.

The third goal, he sorta whiffed on the glove save, but kept the puck out of the net. Butcher, driving the net, completely ignored the off-wing skater, who had a clear path to that rebound.

I have a lot of time for Cory because last year I lost feeling in one of my arms for a month because of a spinal disc pushing on a nerve and it took me a while to re-learn, and even moreso re-TRUST, that arm to do things. I still catch myself nursing it somewhat, ten months later. After two years of having a funky hip, I imagine that he's still not feeling totally comfortable with it, thinking that every stretch could end in disaster. So, I have a lot of time for him to test himself and relearn how to do what he did for years prior to that. Maybe coaches don't - I don't know, I'm just a dude who watches the games on TV.

I don't think he goes back to being elite all-star Cory who singlehandedly prevented us from winning draft lotteries while we were trash, but I'm willing to bet that he does better than a .90something when this season is over.
 

Camille the Eel

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I could see in the 3d period at Tampa that Corey wasn’t reacting well to the play in front of him. How can you expect him to after being down the entire summer with surgery and only being back in even AHL competition for ten days.

While I haven’t trusted him consistently for two years, he was bound to be rusty in this game. Why did Hynes play him? I suppose because, if he’s going to be part of the team this year, he’s got to play himself into some kind of game shape.

But actually our problem the last few games hasn’t been lack of scoring. It’s that we’ve given up 4 or more goals in like five straight games, and coughed up several third period leads while doing it.

Until we cut down on the goals against I doubt we will be winning much. Especially we need to bear down in 3d periods.
 

Bleedred

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After 10 - 20 more games for me, though you and others had written him off as AHL fodder after the first period, where he stopped 11 of 12 shots. This board is absurd.

Sorry but not sorry, I was saying for the past two years that Cory was playing through something nagging. If you're bored, go look for the posts, because I know I was making them. I was beating those drums hard because it was obvious how he was laboring laterally and his slow recoveries.

As it turns out, I was right. And the surgery this offseason should have (In theory) corrected those issues.

Today was his first game that he started since the surgery. To be frank, he played a lot better than I thought he would have. He made some really great, tough saves tonight. I still think he was having some bad luck, too. I'll explain:

The first goal was not great, but whatever, literally every goalie will let up a couple of goals exactly like that one over the course of the season. Not great, but they're not all going to be gems. Call it bad if you want, you'll get only minimal argument from me.

The next two goals (and the waved off one) can be mostly blamed on the defensemen on ice at the time:

The waved off goal that was trapped under his pads, you can see our two defensemen staring at him, literally not moving at all. They're not even trying to box out the forward who potted the rebound. I forget who the two d-men were at the time.

The second goal is more of the same. Cory definitely left a decent rebound there, but that is the reason you have two d-men playing down low on a PK, to clear rebounds and box out forwards trying to get to those rebounds. Butcher, and to a lesser extent Severson, didn't even make an attempt to; unluckily enough, they were only killing the penalty because Mueller was in the box for getting his head punched in and it was Lovejoy's penalty. Rebounds are bound to happen. You have to mitigate what they can do to you.

The third goal, he sorta whiffed on the glove save, but kept the puck out of the net. Butcher, driving the net, completely ignored the off-wing skater, who had a clear path to that rebound.

I have a lot of time for Cory because last year I lost feeling in one of my arms for a month because of a spinal disc pushing on a nerve and it took me a while to re-learn, and even moreso re-TRUST, that arm to do things. I still catch myself nursing it somewhat, ten months later. After two years of having a funky hip, I imagine that he's still not feeling totally comfortable with it, thinking that every stretch could end in disaster. So, I have a lot of time for him to test himself and relearn how to do what he did for years prior to that. Maybe coaches don't - I don't know, I'm just a dude who watches the games on TV.

I don't think he goes back to being elite all-star Cory who singlehandedly prevented us from winning draft lotteries while we were trash, but I'm willing to bet that he does better than a .90something when this season is over.
Fair enough. I do appreciate your reply. I don't think I see him doing better than that, but hopefully he does, because I don't think Kinkaid is all that good either. Not as a starter. And we probably won't make the playoffs with mediocre goaltending again, like we did last year.

I am not doubting he was injured, it's clear they've taken a toll. I just think the injuries may have spelled the end of his days as a useful goaltender.
 

Bleedred

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I could see in the 3d period at Tampa that Corey wasn’t reacting well to the play in front of him. How can you expect him
too after being down the entire summer with surgery and only being back in even AHL competition for ten days.

While I haven’t trusted consistently him for two years, he was bound to be rusty in this game. Why did Hynes play him? I suppose because, if he’s going to be part of the team this year, he’s got to play himself into some kind of game shape.

But actually our problem the last few games hasn’t been lack of scoring. It’s that we’ve given up 4 or more goals in like five straight games, and coughed up several third period leads while doing it.

Until we cut down on the goals against I doubt we will be winning much. Especially we need to bear down in 3d periods.
Well, I can't blame Hynes for playing him, as he needed to play sometime. This was probably the time to do it.
 

Lou is God

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We need actual skill on this team. Not some dinosaur enforcer type that has no place in the league. We have two aging slugs on the back end that this pud of a coach leans on for 2 minutes straight on a PK. We have Butcher who skates in quick sand and is good 5 on 5 and on the PP. Severson who is the only good all around dman that doesn't get pummeled in his own zone, Vatanen who is solid, but way out of his depth as a top pairing guy, and Mueller who is solid defensively and okay offensive.

Our forward group is one line of pure skill, then bottom 6 players and Mojo who's brain may be totally ****ed up from the concussion issues from last year.

Who said anything about fighting? This game of hockey is still won and lost in front of the net and what we have is basically a soft bunch who are not crease clearers
 

Richer's Ghost

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I have a hard time pinning that on Cory at all. The first goal was questionable but even it had it's fluke factor. He didn't allow a 5 on 5 goal, it was all stupid special teams on both sides and horrible defensive coverage after making initial stops.

Blaming him when the team played again true to the BLOWN LEADS 2018 Tour with yet another encore performance is showing you want to blame him rather than the Johnny Mac led effort on the ice tonight.

Charmin should just buy sponsorship of the goal against replay because it always involves softness in front of the crease. Disgusting stick fishing, coasting, and watching without reading a damn thing on the plays.

It would be nice if we could win some faceoffs too.

Hynes can shove that PP gimmick gain the red line and pass the puck back into our zone to skate it in up his clipboard and toss it into a fire. It's stupid, it's not natural, and teams are seeing the tape and now are ready for it which makes the scripted maneuver all the more idiotic because it forces a play into a bad position when they had an entry and pass it up.

Detroit 2 weeks ago looked like a minor league team. Tonight we looked like the minor league team yet again even when having the lead. Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory shouldn't be a mantra in the NHL but it seems to be...
 

Richer's Ghost

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Who said anything about fighting? This game of hockey is still won and lost in front of the net and what we have is basically a soft bunch who are not crease clearers

Preach. When our most physical Dman equates to Brian Rafalski and there should be at least 2 Daneykos in the mix or 1 Daneyko and 1 Jason Smith, we're going to get goals shoved down our throat on the rebounds and screens. I don't care about "it's a different game now" because other teams have those Defensive Dmen in their top 4 and they pay dividends on the PK and even strength even in the new NHL.
 

haak84

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this team went out and picked up grabner and maroon and did not replace them. thats kinda sad. IMO its not on hynes or the players. they need and injection of skill that they dont have.

TBH ty smith might be the most nhl ready player in their system.
 

Lou is God

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Preach. When our most physical Dman equates to Brian Rafalski and there should be at least 2 Daneykos in the mix or 1 Daneyko and 1 Jason Smith, we're going to get goals shoved down our throat on the rebounds and screens. I don't care about "it's a different game now" because other teams have those Defensive Dmen in their top 4 and they pay dividends on the PK and even strength even in the new NHL.
As long as other teams have big, strong forwards crashing the net, there is going to be a need for lunch pail defensemen. We have one in Santini but he needs to improve in other areas.

And I like our defensemen prospects in the pipeline, but they are mostly skilled players in the mode of Butcher. I'm hoping Xavier Bernard will develop into that player we can count on and we need.
 

Emperoreddy

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this team went out and picked up grabner and maroon and did not replace them. thats kinda sad. IMO its not on hynes or the players. they need and injection of skill that they dont have.

TBH ty smith might be the most nhl ready player in their system.

Those two being gone has absolutely nothing to do with recent results. Maroon and Grabner doesn’t erase these poor, weak efforts.
 

Emperoreddy

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As long as other teams have big, strong forwards crashing the net, there is going to be a need for lunch pail defensemen. We have one in Santini but he needs to improve in other areas.

And I like our defensemen prospects in the pipeline, but they are mostly skilled players in the mode of Butcher. I'm hoping Xavier Bernard will develop into that player we can count on and we need.

We do seem to need a bruiser or two that can actually skate.
 

Emperoreddy

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I have a hard time pinning that on Cory at all. The first goal was questionable but even it had it's fluke factor. He didn't allow a 5 on 5 goal, it was all stupid special teams on both sides and horrible defensive coverage after making initial stops.

Blaming him when the team played again true to the BLOWN LEADS 2018 Tour with yet another encore performance is showing you want to blame him rather than the Johnny Mac led effort on the ice tonight.

Charmin should just buy sponsorship of the goal against replay because it always involves softness in front of the crease. Disgusting stick fishing, coasting, and watching without reading a damn thing on the plays.

It would be nice if we could win some faceoffs too.

Hynes can shove that PP gimmick gain the red line and pass the puck back into our zone to skate it in up his clipboard and toss it into a fire. It's stupid, it's not natural, and teams are seeing the tape and now are ready for it which makes the scripted maneuver all the more idiotic because it forces a play into a bad position when they had an entry and pass it up.

Detroit 2 weeks ago looked like a minor league team. Tonight we looked like the minor league team yet again even when having the lead. Defeat snatched from the jaws of victory shouldn't be a mantra in the NHL but it seems to be...

I thought this was a pretty obvious take away from this game, but alas people have axes they need to grind.
 

Triumph

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This thread should just be called axe-grinding. The people who never liked Hynes are blaming him, the people who don't like Schneider are blaming him, everyone else has their pet player to blame. The team didn't execute well. If they play like this consistently the team will struggle, for sure. I don't think they will keep playing like this.
 

haak84

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Those two being gone has absolutely nothing to do with recent results. Maroon and Grabner doesn’t erase these poor, weak efforts.

thats not my point. they were here to fix these weak efforts and the front office had all offseason to improve on that and signed rooney and dea. the blame starts there and then falls on zacha bc he needs to step up
 
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Emperoreddy

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I don’t think anyone outside of Coleman is really trying to physically get to the net on most occasions lately either.

We know Zacha might as well be figure skakting out there with how he avoids dirty areas, but even a guy like Wood I don’t think is physically creating as much chaos as he has in the past.

They aren’t moving with speed either. Either flubbing passes or getting caught going east/west.

Honestly you could make a laundry list of things they aren’t doing. They simply are not playing well. It isn’t something that should be how they play all season, but they also need to figure a way to stop it.
 

Triumph

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thats not my point. they were here to fix these weak efforts and the front office had all offseason to improve on that and signed rooney and dea. the blame starts there and then falls on zacha bc he needs to step up

Dea has 3 goals and seems to do something decent every game. I'm not sure why he's an object of hate around here except that, well, he came from somewhere else.
 

haak84

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Dea has 3 goals and seems to do something decent every game. I'm not sure why he's an object of hate around here except that, well, he came from somewhere else.

dea is fine as a 4th liner. zacha is prob fine as a 3rd line shutdown center. devils do not have a second line. bratt is a fringe 2nd liner. my point is this team needs a second line. if theyre not going to play the prospects that will grow into that role than trade them and picks for legit second liners.
 
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