Post-Game Talk: Yet another dumpster fire in Detroit

[Azathoth]

I think when Bratt is back I would like to see
Hall Nico Bratt
Wood Zacha Palmieri
Coleman Zajac Noesen
Marjo Boyle Dea/Quenneville/whom ever

 

[guitarguyvic]

People gave Hynes a lot of credit last year for getting a team that most thought didn't have enough talent to the playoffs. I think people have things reversed. I think this team's core of Hall, Hischier, and Palms, along with speedy skilled secondary guys like Bratt, Wood, and Coleman and a set of d-men who are pretty good at the transition game is what got us to the playoffs IN SPITE of a lack of structured system and mediocre coaching.

 

[njdevils1982]

So 10 games in. Basically .500 about half the games they looked like world beaters. Half they have looked like a bottom 3 team.

Not sure what they are. I think better then what we have seen because so much of what is happening is mental errors. Roster has some holes, but not at a size to cause play like this.

Missing Bratt isn’t causing them to take way too many penalties, or soft clears, or dumb passes.

half of all sports is in the brain…..confidence, decisions…..and as you said, mental errors.

its cliche to say 'keep your head in the game' but when it comes down to it thats what makes a successful player…..head in the game, focused and confident. it spreads to your teammates also when you exude this.

there has to be someone in the locker room who walks the fine line of guru and guts when talking to the guys

 

[Cult of Hynes]

I think when Bratt is back I would like to see
Hall Nico Bratt
Wood Zacha Palmieri
Coleman Zajac Noesen
Marjo Boyle Dea/Quenneville/whom ever

Mojo on the 4th line is a horrible move, especially since him Zajac and Coleman were productive. Honestly, Noesen can stay on the bench since he has shown nothing so far this season.

 

[Bleedred]

Short leash? We're going on 160 games with Zacha showing zero offensively, heck he's gone backwards if anything this season. Not having a second-line center is a huge problem for this team right now, the whole line sucks in part because they don't have an offensive center.

Remember where you are! This is the land where 100+ games worth of data don't mean anything!

 

[Bleedred]

This team has a much bigger problem than that. The team isn't competing

That's true, but goalie is the most important position in the game and we've won a game with goaltending where we didn't play well this year. That San Jose game, who I know is a much better team than Detroit, but we got saves that game. I see the Sharks lose games like this (in fact, they did in the very game I'm referencing!) where Jones lets in one or two poor goals and it's a one goal loss. Those are the games where bad goaltending hurts you. Games like tonight and the Nashville game that Kinkaid played. It's not the blowouts like the Tampa game where the poor goaltending hurts you and costs you wins/points. We saw the same things with Marty in his declining years as well. And you also can't say ''Well the team only scored 2 goals, you need more than that to win!'' and you need to many times allow fewer than 3 goals in regulation to also win, by that same token.

 

[My3Sons]

Hall has been -2 or worse in 4 of our last 6. Our top line just isn't producing at 5 on 5.

It’s hard for me to fault him tonight since he didn’t make the bad plays leading to the SHG or the SH ENG. that’s more a symptom of how off the team is than Hall playing poorly. He’s not dominating but he’s not bad. Nico was -2 tonight and I thought he played with good effort and skated pretty hard. Hall and Nico and Palms are putting up a reasonable amount of points in my view. It’s whats behind them that is really problematic. Wood and Coleman shouldn’t be tied for the fourth best forward on the team right now. And as was pointed out earlier they are icing an entire line of AHL players.

 

[Maine Fan]

The player watch the tape of the Tampa game I am sure the coaches watched as well.

They missed that the Devils are taking too many penalties. They missed that the Devils can't pass. They missed that there is zero flow to the games.

It's back to the basics for everyone including Hall. They got cocked after the first few games go back to the basics.

There is a talent defficency on this team that will hold them back all year. That's on the risk of doing nithnotin the off season to improve this team.

Go Devils ...Rebuild but do it quickly. How many seasons must this team suffer?

On to the Isles

 

[Bleedred]

@None Shall Pass

And at what point, do we say ''This is who he is now?'' Will one more .90-something do that? Or do we need two more years? I gave him the benefit of the doubt after 16-17, it's one poor year. 2 poor years? It's hard to ignore now.

Sorry, couldn't quote your post from the old thread.

 

[Bleedred]

People gave Hynes a lot of credit last year for getting a team that most thought didn't have enough talent to the playoffs. I think people have things reversed. I think this team's core of Hall, Hischier, and Palms, along with speedy skilled secondary guys like Bratt, Wood, and Coleman and a set of d-men who are pretty good at the transition game is what got us to the playoffs IN SPITE of a lack of structured system and mediocre coaching.

I'm still not sold on Hynes, I softened my opinion on him last year, but didn't completely jump ship on it. I'm still skeptical he's a good X's and O's guy, but I'm not ready to blame him for this season. If anything, I think he kept Dea up in the top 6 too long and got close to insanity with the Zacha and Johansson duo. Not that he had many choices, so I'm cutting him a break on it. I never gave Hynes much credit last year, so I'm also not gonna give him blame right now. The one thing I credited him on was not staying married to Cory as his starter and throwing him on the bench at the end of the year, then not staying married to Kinkaid as his starter in the playoffs. I think DeBoer would have rode Cory until the end. Sutter would have too. Remember Sutter's ''Marty needs to play more to shake off the rust'' comment after Marty came back from injury and we were approaching the playoffs in 2009.

 

[tr83]

I think the only thing that was lost with John Moore was his speed. The back end is SLLLLLLOOOOOOWWWW and undersized. It's not that talented. Vatanen is our only top line D. Too many of them would be 5 and 6D on other teams

 

[guitarguyvic]

Re: Schneider...he's obviously not been a major factor in anything good or bad this season since this was his first game. But you have got to be utterly delusional to think it's likely that at 32 he's going to return to previous form coming off two straight years of poor performance and then major hip surgery. IMO even his previous form was nothing more than OK (certainly nothing special, with a penchant for not coming up big when it actually f***in mattered). I mean, I guess it's POSSIBLE he could be starter caliber but it just doesn't seem very likely.

That trade by Lou was ill-advised, especially in today's NHL.

 

[Edmonton East]

But but but 90% of this board had a panic attack anytime Zacha was criticized or doubted over the past 2 years...

Good to see some of you have come around.

 

[Cage Helmet]

I think the only thing that was lost with John Moore was his speed. The back end is SLLLLLLOOOOOOWWWW and undersized. It's not that talented. Vatanen is our only top line D. Too many of them would be 5 and 6D on other teams

That’s not true, dude.

Severson has played like a top line guy this year. Has he not? Even Greene has played well this year. Far exceeded my expectations to this point. I think Butcher is still showing if he’s a top-4 guy. Same for Mueller. Early to say but he’s much more impressive than Santini. Lovejoy is ready for the gold watch and Gryba isn’t even fit to be stick boy.

 

[guitarguyvic]

But but but 90% of this board had a panic attack anytime Zacha was criticized or doubted over the past 2 years...

Good to see some of you have come around.

I said last year that his lack of improvement was a major red flag and that if he doesn't get it done this season that should pretty much be lights out on his time here. The cast majority of the NHL caliber forwards that have come into the league in the last decade started making an impact within their first 3 seasons, especially those drafted in the first round. If Zacha turns into a top 6 forward after not showing much production during his first 200 games he would be bucking the trend. Much like Schneider returning to form, it's possible but probably not likely.

 

[Cage Helmet]

Re: Schneider...he's obviously not been a major factor in anything good or bad this season since this was his first game. But you have got to be utterly delusional to think it's likely that at 32 he's going to return to previous form coming off two straight years of poor performance and then major hip surgery. IMO even his previous form was nothing more than OK (certainly nothing special, with a penchant for not coming up big when it actually ****in mattered). I mean, I guess it's POSSIBLE he could be starter caliber but it just doesn't seem very likely.

That trade by Lou was ill-advised, especially in today's NHL.

You had me until the last part. Schneider was absolutely a tremendous netminder until two years ago. I couldn’t list 5 better than him in the entire league before that massive nose dive. It’s just that now I’m gonna have trouble finding more than 5 teams where he would be an upgrade over the best tender on their roster.

 

[JimEIV]

I think Coleman is showing that he's more than a bottom 6 player. He creates so much on his own and he could be used in any forward position...Maybe give him a shot at 2nd line center?

I am not sure how to make it work but you always seem to get the same level of play no matter what line, position or teammates Coleman plays with. Can't be any worse.

 

[Tundra]

Hynes is the only reason this team is remotely competitive. Look at his roster. It was clearly evident during the Tampa series and it's clear as day now. That's why I bet the devils under 91.5 before the season started. Eventually, the coach can't push them above their abilities.

 

[NJDevs26]

Hynes is the only reason this team is remotely competitive. Look at his roster. It was clearly evident during the Tampa series and it's clear as day. That's why I bet the devils under 91.5 before the season started. Eventually, the coach can't push them above their abilities.

They're NOT competitive, that's the problem. This is ****ing Detroit, if they can't even show up against a horrible Red Wings team missing its entire second line coming off getting their faces handed to them in Tampa then there are issues. This team has skated around thinking their **** don't stink for weeks now making dumb mistake after dumb mistake with a bunch of dumb penalties. That's on the head coach. If you want to make this out to be a 70-point team you're missing the boat, they shouldn't be that bad. At worst they should be a .500 team. They're on their way to an every other year crash and burn.

 

[Tundra]

They're NOT competitive, that's the problem. This is ****ing Detroit, if they can't even show up against a horrible Red Wings team missing its entire second line coming off getting their faces handed to them in Tampa then there are issues. This team has skated around thinking their **** don't stink for weeks now making dumb mistake after dumb mistake with a bunch of dumb penalties. That's on the head coach. If you want to make this out to be a 70-point team you're missing the boat, they shouldn't be that bad. At worst they should be a .500 team. They're on their way to an every other year crash and burn.

Aren't they .500?

 

[NJDevs26]

Aren't they .500?

As of now yes but they're playing like a team that's going to finish way below it since the 4-0 start, and this trip doesn't get any easier. I'm fully expecting to be under .500 going into the Ottawa game and 0-4 on the trip heading to Canada.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You had me until the last part. Schneider was absolutely a tremendous netminder until two years ago. I couldn’t list 5 better than him in the entire league before that massive nose dive. It’s just that now I’m gonna have trouble finding more than 5 teams where he would be an upgrade over the best tender on their roster.

What made him tremendous...his save percentage? I never once felt comfortable with him in net during a tight game (which we obviously had a lot of prior to last year). He was playing on a poor team that still played low event hockey in front of him. Judging him by his stats alone during that time period to me doesn't mean much of anything. As soon as this team began playing higher event hockey his numbers plummeted and they did their winning without him.

I defended Cory in his first season when he was unfairly splitting time with the shell of Marty, but he never wound up impressing me all that much in the subsequent seasons. I would describe his performance prior to the past two seasons as "adequate" for a non-playoff team, nothing more.

 

[Cage Helmet]

What made him tremendous...his save percentage? I never once felt comfortable with him in net during a tight game (which we obviously had a lot of prior to last year). He was playing on a poor team that still played low event hockey in front of him. Judging him by his stats alone during that time period to me doesn't mean much of anything. As soon as this team began playing higher event hockey his numbers plummeted and they did their winning without him.

I defended Cory in his first season when he was unfairly splitting time with the shell of Marty, but he never wound up impressing me all that much in the subsequent seasons. I would describe his performance prior to the past two seasons as "adequate" for a non-playoff team, nothing more.

I think he just seemed to fall off and become bad when the team started playing high event hockey. Not that they were related. Just a coincidence. I just think he’s cooked now. Probably something related to one of these injuries. He got injured late in 2015-2016 and came back for like 3 games to end the season. It’s possible that was the start of it. Whatever started it, we don’t know, but evidently he’s pretty crispity now.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Hynes is the only reason this team is remotely competitive. Look at his roster. It was clearly evident during the Tampa series and it's clear as day now. That's why I bet the devils under 91.5 before the season started. Eventually, the coach can't push them above their abilities.

You think our best players taking dumbass penalties and making blind passes in the d-zone and our PP looking clueless on zone entries is a talent issue?

What exactly is Hynes' structure? "Fast attacking supportive" is probably the most simplistic and shallow system description I've ever heard of in hockey.

 

[Bleedred]

What made him tremendous...his save percentage? I never once felt comfortable with him in net during a tight game (which we obviously had a lot of prior to last year). He was playing on a poor team that still played low event hockey in front of him. Judging him by his stats alone during that time period to me doesn't mean much of anything. As soon as this team began playing higher event hockey his numbers plummeted and they did their winning without him.

I defended Cory in his first season when he was unfairly splitting time with the shell of Marty, but he never wound up impressing me all that much in the subsequent seasons. I would describe his performance prior to the past two seasons as "adequate" for a non-playoff team, nothing more.

I think he just seemed to fall off and become bad when the team started playing high event hockey. Not that they were related. Just a coincidence. I just think he’s cooked now. Probably something related to one of these injuries. He got injured late in 2015-2016 and came back for like 3 games to end the season. It’s possible that was the start of it. Whatever started it, we don’t know, but evidently he’s pretty crispity now.

The eye test backs it up for me. You know how rare it was to see two stoppable goals in the same game on Schneider before the 16-17 season? Now it's not even a blue moon event to see him allow three weak goals in a game, but they're happening a lot. I noticed even early last season, he didn't play as well on the eyes as he did on paper. In December he definitely did, but in October and November it was almost a continuation of the year before. Then he fell off around the new year and I thought he was not playing as poorly on the eyes as he was on paper through January. Then he came back from injury and he was every bit as bad as the statline looked in those games in March and the one in April in the regular season.