Proposal: Yes or No: Hit the reset button on this team

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
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Burlington
Yes:

- You believe the core of this team, who occupies the majority of the ice-time and cap-space is not capable of getting this team to the Stanley Cup

- You believe the non-roster assets of this team (picks and prospects currently owned by the Leafs), are not plentiful or of high enough quality to aid the core talent of this team in reaching the goal of the Stanley Cup. This means that keeping a mediocre group devalues the tangible value of our future draft picks.

- You believe that the best way to improve this team is to use the most straight-forward and direct approach to adding real value to an NHL team's roster; the NHL entry draft. Statistics have demonstrated the best talent is selected in the first round with diminishing returns thereafter.


No:

- You believe the core of this team is quite capable of reaching the Stanley Cup final and winning the Cup. There is nothing wrong with them, be it talent, character, or age, and these players compare perfectly well to the best that other team's around the league have to offer.

- You believe our non-roster assets (picks and prospects currently owned by the Leafs) will be able to cover any gaps between our core talent and all other teams' core talent and picks and prospects.

- You believe that any additional roster improvements can be readily made up for by using the free agent market, exchanging players, picks, and prospects with other teams, and by drafting players (with devalued picks in lieu of continuously chasing a playoff spot, as well as a reduced number of draft picks as a result of trading them for immediate help).


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Please choose your reason and explain, as best you can, why you selected that choice.

:)
 
Last edited:

p.l.f.

use the force
Feb 27, 2002
47,486
1
Toronto, CANADA
Not the entry draft
But a blockbuster or two to create a different core, one that has a better compete level
I dont think any coach could change that much with this group
 

666

Registered User
Jun 27, 2005
2,982
739
What is it that some of you people don't understand. This team has been a bubble team for a few years and is still a bubble team. THIS CORE WILL NOT WIN THE CUP. Accept it and stop tricking yourself.
 

FlareKnight

Registered User
Jun 26, 2006
19,822
1,707
Alberta
Absolutely, smash that reset button.

Have had enough of Carlyle and this core. You don't have to move every single player off the roster, but you need to swap out pieces of this core and try to find one that will work.

For me, enough has been seen to believe this isn't going to work. Get rid of Carlyle, figure out what parts of the core won't work and move forward.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Absolutely, smash that reset button.

Have had enough of Carlyle and this core. You don't have to move every single player off the roster, but you need to swap out pieces of this core and try to find one that will work.

For me, enough has been seen to believe this isn't going to work. Get rid of Carlyle, figure out what parts of the core won't work and move forward.

I disagree with the idea of ousting Carlyle.

He is a defensive oriented coach tasked with getting a bunch of uncoachable, gutless, pukes to play a good brand of two-way hockey (the prescribed way to contend in this league).

It's not the coaching strategy that needs to change.

It's the players.

And it's the players and the people responsible for placing these players here that need to go.

Start with Nonis...move on to Phaneuf...and then Kessel.

One by one, they need to go.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Every coach wants two way hockey. :help:

Some get it, some don't.

What's Toronto's excuse?

Three consecutive coaches just not getting the message across in plain terms?

I realize most of these players barely have their high school but I tend to believe they are on the same wavelength in terms of hockey talk.
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,212
9,189
The Optimist in me believes that when we get a new coach (because Randy Carlyle, as much as I don't think he deserves a lot of the crap that gets flung his way, is not the best coach for the team that the team will do better and everything will be good.

However, I think, personally - the team is what it is. I don't think there is anything that a coach can really do (even if they deployed all the things we scream at Randy to do -change line ups, bench people, roll out a sleeping bag in the press box for some players, react faster) is going to change the overall play for alot of these players.

The core, as it stands - are all in the prime age of winning right now. Most of them are 26+. We don't have cap space to get pieces to go on a cap run, the pieces we should be trading off to get younger assets (not just picks) are too expensive and all have limted no trades so it makes it a touch harder (and most of them are the GM's favourite toys too, because he was there when all the pieces were originally brought in).

I was clinging to thehope that things were going to change, - but I don't think they're capable of change. It might be both coach + core, but i don't get how you have a coach telling you to do 1 thing, new assistant coaches to help reinforce this idea, and they still constantly do thesame thing.

last year it was hope thefirst line scores and then hold on for dear life. this year is either Kill or Be Killed. we either decimate them on the score sheet or we get decimated. And i THOUGHT after the 9-2 beating to Nashville (and i know Rinne is good -but i mean , still. NASHVILLE) smoked us, and everyone was finally saying the things that i wnated them to say and they played well (very good games) for like 5 games, then they had adip, then they really played well, and I was like. okay, but then it was like, well, this was fun but let's play the way we want to play.


We've been playing it the Core's way , way too much. they love each other and want to be with one another - I remember for two TDL's in a row, that the leadership group went to Nonis and asked that they wanted to prove what they can do. (which led to like. crap results).

I want anew coach -but I just want to remove some aspects to the core. And no -this is not because we lost, for people who want to roll their eyes. this is i want my team to do well, and win. Winning streaks are great - but playoff runs and cups are better, and I don't know if they can do that. they have the talent -but not the brain matter.
 

ULF_55

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Feb 27, 2002
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No, it hasnt. JvR wasnt here under Wilson. Neither was Rielly. Kadri was still a prospect.

Im also of the opinion that neither Wilson or Carlyle are really that great of coaches.

Well, that might be true, but neither are the players that great of players.

How do the Lightning draft a Kucherov and he's already scoring with the Leafs best players 3-5 year his senior?

I don't think that is coaching, IMO that is talent.
 

HEAVY DUTY

Thanks to denial, I’m immortal.
Jul 10, 2010
6,920
1,690
Toronto, ON
absolutely.


step 1: fire coach

step 2: make a couple of trades. trade some core players out.


this current team isn't going anywhere but the golf course in april.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
The Optimist in me believes that when we get a new coach (because Randy Carlyle, as much as I don't think he deserves a lot of the crap that gets flung his way, is not the best coach for the team that the team will do better and everything will be good.

However, I think, personally - the team is what it is. I don't think there is anything that a coach can really do (even if they deployed all the things we scream at Randy to do -change line ups, bench people, roll out a sleeping bag in the press box for some players, react faster) is going to change the overall play for alot of these players.

The core, as it stands - are all in the prime age of winning right now. Most of them are 26+. We don't have cap space to get pieces to go on a cap run, the pieces we should be trading off to get younger assets (not just picks) are too expensive and all have limted no trades so it makes it a touch harder (and most of them are the GM's favourite toys too, because he was there when all the pieces were originally brought in).

I was clinging to thehope that things were going to change, - but I don't think they're capable of change. It might be both coach + core, but i don't get how you have a coach telling you to do 1 thing, new assistant coaches to help reinforce this idea, and they still constantly do thesame thing.

last year it was hope thefirst line scores and then hold on for dear life. this year is either Kill or Be Killed. we either decimate them on the score sheet or we get decimated. And i THOUGHT after the 9-2 beating to Nashville (and i know Rinne is good -but i mean , still. NASHVILLE) smoked us, and everyone was finally saying the things that i wnated them to say and they played well (very good games) for like 5 games, then they had adip, then they really played well, and I was like. okay, but then it was like, well, this was fun but let's play the way we want to play.


We've been playing it the Core's way , way too much. they love each other and want to be with one another - I remember for two TDL's in a row, that the leadership group went to Nonis and asked that they wanted to prove what they can do. (which led to like. crap results).

I want anew coach -but I just want to remove some aspects to the core. And no -this is not because we lost, for people who want to roll their eyes. this is i want my team to do well, and win. Winning streaks are great - but playoff runs and cups are better, and I don't know if they can do that. they have the talent -but not the brain matter.

Daisy, you are a fantastic member of this forum here and I think you're great.

But for once just please pick a side and stick with it!!!!!

That's all I ask.

I'm trying to carve clear cut boundaries and divisiveness amongst our fanbase and you are interfering with that.

No compromises!!!
 

TeamBester

Debunked
Feb 15, 2010
6,573
67
Kingston, Ontario
Some get it, some don't.

What's Toronto's excuse?

Three consecutive coaches just not getting the message across in plain terms?

I realize most of these players barely have their high school but I tend to believe they are on the same wavelength in terms of hockey talk.

If Randy is so great how can he not figure out he needs a better two way winger to play on the first line with Kessel? Intead of the back and forth with Lupul and JVR, two that are just as horrible as Kessel in their own end if not worse.

How about breaking up the best cycle line we've had in a long long time in Winnik Kadri Santo?
 

ECanuck

Registered User
Jan 7, 2010
5,805
1,020
Hamilton
It's been the same for me for a while now. Anyone over 25 try to move out and get younger. There is talent on the core but does not work as is constructed for the Leafs. Kessel would be fantastic on a more rounded team. Maybe even try to get a young defenseman from a team with deep d pool and trade JVR.
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
If Randy is so great how can he not figure out he needs a better two way winger to play on the first line with Kessel? Intead of the back and forth with Lupul and JVR, two that are just as horrible as Kessel in their own end if not worse.

How about breaking up the best cycle line we've had in a long long time in Winnik Kadri Santo?

So who, in your mind, is an ideal first line winger, huh?

Is it Leo Komarov?

Or wait.

Daniel Winnik?

No. Even better...

David Clarkson!?!?!

Bad Randy! Not using what should otherwise be third line players on a decent team on the first line for the Leafs! BAD!

He ought to go!

We have championship material on our hands here in Toronto, and if only stupid coach would realize that his bad team's third line players should play first line minutes!!!!!

OH that pesky Carlyle!!!!!
 

Ratboy

I made a funny!
Jul 15, 2009
16,855
3,343
Doesn't really matter. As fans, we are doomed, doooooooooooomed, DOOOOOOOOOOMMMEED~~!
 

showtime8

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
11,554
1,145
Toronto, ON
Doing a reset has to be done from top to bottom if you want to do a true "reset".

The Leafs have notoriously just re-tooled and always brought in free agents and built their teams in the wrong way.

Any team that the Leafs have had, they've never had the patience to actually develop players and create their own unique system. They've always based that off of whatever player they acquire.

Beauchemin, Komisarek, Orr & Armstrong are signed and now they're a tough team.
Phil Kessel was acquired and now they're a rush team.

They always change their style of play based on the players they acquire.

They need to establish a way that they want to play and stick with it, then you have player development draft the right players for the system, sign the right free agents and have the right coaches. Until you do that, you are constantly spinning your tires and trying to figure out how the team is going to play on a nightly basis.
 

TeamBester

Debunked
Feb 15, 2010
6,573
67
Kingston, Ontario
So who, in your mind, is an ideal first line winger, huh?

Is it Leo Komarov?

Or wait.

Daniel Winnik?

No. Even better...

David Clarkson!?!?!

Bad Randy! Not using what should otherwise be third line players on a decent team on the first line for the Leafs! BAD!

He ought to go!

We have championship material on our hands here in Toronto, and if only stupid coach would realize that his bad team's third line players should play first line minutes!!!!!

OH that pesky Carlyle!!!!!

Plenty of teams use 2nd/3rd line wingers to compliment their first line, do you not watch hockey?
 

Daisy Jane

everything is gonna be okay!
Jul 2, 2009
70,212
9,189
Daisy, you are a fantastic member of this forum here and I think you're great.

But for once just please pick a side and stick with it!!!!!

That's all I ask.

I'm trying to carve clear cut boundaries and divisiveness amongst our fanbase and you are interfering with that.

No compromises!!!

thank you, :laugh:

and Im sorry, but I don't think I have been. I've been very consistent. I' ve been saying since about the third year of Kessel's deal that we should trade him. I said it before his no move kicked in, and I said it when he extended for 8x8. Also said that regarding Dion. I have always thought it would be best to do what Columbus did, trade their best players, take the hit, adapt and move on.

i think in the long run a new coach, and removal of the core would behoove us -i've always been pretty strong on that one. :)
 

Bomber0104

Registered User
Apr 8, 2007
15,021
6,835
Burlington
Plenty of teams use 2nd/3rd line wingers to compliment their first line, do you not watch hockey?

Maybe the fact that the Leafs absolutely need to exchange (what should be) top six players with their depth players, in order to be successful, tells you that those players aren't actually top six players to begin with there, bud.

Hence the need for a rebuild.... ?

I know you're trying to argue really hard against a full out rebuild for the Leafs, but what you're actually doing for me right here is giving me ammo to use against this silly little idea of yours.

Thanks, I guess....

:laugh:
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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thank you, :laugh:

and Im sorry, but I don't think I have been. I've been very consistent. I' ve been saying since about the third year of Kessel's deal that we should trade him. I said it before his no move kicked in, and I said it when he extended for 8x8. Also said that regarding Dion. I have always thought it would be best to do what Columbus did, trade their best players, take the hit, adapt and move on.

i think in the long run a new coach, and removal of the core would behoove us -i've always been pretty strong on that one. :)

Do the Rangers have cap space?

Stepan and Kreider
for
Kessel

Leafs could retain 2 million for the rest of this year.

Rangers always like to get the big name player who isn't working out.
 

Mindrust

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
667
0
1. Get a new coach
2. Trade Kessel + Bozak for assets.
3. Acquire a top-pairing D

Unfortunately, Kessel will never be traded no matter how bad he plays, because we have an incompetent GM and President. (OMG he scores GOALS! Keep him!)
 

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