News Article: Yes, It’s Time to Trade Jean-Gabriel Pageau (This time, it’s different.)
- Thread starter Matsens15
- Start date
- Status
Countdown0
Deep Breath... nope, still mad!
Just because none of those trades were complete trash, doesn't mean they were "wins". But hey, tell you what, @ me when Dorion makes a trade even HALF as good as any of these: Top 15 Most Lopsided Trades in NHL History
Sweatred
Erase me
- Jan 28, 2019
- 13,408
- 3,324
OH - they were wins the instance PD decided he wasn’t go to over pay to sign them. He won even knowing he would take a beating with the fan base and media. He won those trades before he acquired Norris, SJ2020, Thonpson, Duclair, x2 2NDRD, Demelo etc etc... those things are just gravy having avoided franchise crippling boat anchors.
People need to temper their expectations with a Pageau trade.
Im expecting 2 2nds, or a 2nd and good prospect. Maybe even a pick and a Duclair type. Hopefully then you could use the bank of draft picks to move around in the draft and get players higher on their draft list.
Quality > Quantity at this stage. Depth is not a concern, filling out that top 6 is.
I’m not opposed to a 4x4 deal if Pags is in the mood for that. I also wouldnt complain if he was given the “C,” though I think thats Brady’s to have. I hate the recent trend of just giving letters to your best players, give them to your locker room leaders
Im expecting 2 2nds, or a 2nd and good prospect. Maybe even a pick and a Duclair type. Hopefully then you could use the bank of draft picks to move around in the draft and get players higher on their draft list.
Quality > Quantity at this stage. Depth is not a concern, filling out that top 6 is.
I’m not opposed to a 4x4 deal if Pags is in the mood for that. I also wouldnt complain if he was given the “C,” though I think thats Brady’s to have. I hate the recent trend of just giving letters to your best players, give them to your locker room leaders
I never understood these takes. Do you not know that other scouts and GM's know who Pageau is and have seen him play for years?
scouts don't change their opinion on a small sample size. Pageau has been a career 3rd liner who plays well in the playoffs.
That is what he is and that is probably where his value is
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 53,749
- 30,935
I think there is an argument to be made that just because he has been used as a shutdown 3rd line center over the years, doesn't mean he is seen universally around the league as such. Some scouts might have a guy who given the opportunity can take on an offensive role, and used his time with Stone a few years back and this season to validate that opinion.
We know for a fact that GMs have over paid guys who hit UFA after a career year, why would that be different when it comes to trades? It's the same people making the final call, the same scouts informing their decisons, so why would some sort of second sober thought come into play with trades but not for UFA?
Sure you can have a gm who overpays like CBJ with Dzingel but what if there isn't one who 'overpays' ? Should it then be EXPECTED that we get overpayment for a guy like Pageau and anything less is a failure?
If you are going for hail mary type return its fine but don't expect it to happen then be disappointed when it doesnt. Assuming Pageau can be a 2nd line centre is a huge assumption when he hasn't been that for 99% of his career
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 53,749
- 30,935
Well, this year alone represents over 10% of his career games played, so that last bit is factually incorrect. Is it enough to see him in that role going forward? Perhaps, perhaps not, but we know his floor is a very high end shut down 3rd line center. Most people looking for a 1st out of him have been using historical trades and current climate in context. I think a 1st might be tough (would likely have to be conditional), but it's not coming out of thin air. There are pundits out there who aren't tied to this team floating that as a potential return.
It probably isn't, cause he had a hot start and is not as hot now (he is on pace for 50ish pts rn)....Historical context is that only two 1st rounders were moved for a rental last year...Duchene and Hayes. Jets then went a traded back their 1st cause Hayes was a huge failure.
Might be even harder now to get a 1st and it looks like that's what insiders are saying
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 53,749
- 30,935
So, you're kind of proving my point here. The take you disagreed which spurred my reply was that we needed to move him while he was hot. Teams have historically made decisions based on hot runs (Hayes being one). He's cooling off, sure, and pundits are changing their tunes, but that's why the OP wanted to move him quick. It might be too late now, which is fine, but his point remained a valid one imo.
I think this year, you're at best getting a conditional pick, but more likely to get a similar value pick (two seconds, or a prospect that has perceived 1st round value).
Hyes wasn't 'hot' though he put up 25 goals the year before and has been around the 40 ish point mark since he came into the league. I think Hayes is an example of a GM falling for size and then he ended up playing on the 4th line in the playoffs. Jets overpaid for Hayes and we are seeing less and less of that but he also brings the size which GMs love.
Im not saying Pageau won't get a first. I am saying we shouldn't expect it cause that isn't his value and I don't think 20ish games of playing hot hockey at the start of the year is going to change that.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 53,749
- 30,935
If were going into the territory where Hayes who was on pace for ~20 more pts than his previous career high wasn't hot than I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
I mentioned GMs overpaying UFA based on single seasons for a reason, it's evidence that they do over value players based on a single season. I also think it's important to note that trade value is determined by availability, this year there isn't much out there.
Pageau also brings clutch playoff performance and the ability to shutdown oppositions top lines, things GMs also love.
When we get down to the that's not his value argument, I think it's important to remember value isn't static, it changes based on the circumstances and players bring different elements to drive their value.
Heck, Ryan Reaves got a first, only to get swapped a year later as one of the lesser parts in a Brassard three way deal. Obviously he's a unique player, but a 1st was sent for a guy that had a career high of 13 pts a mere 3 years ago.
edit: here's an example of an outside take from Lebrun's article in the athletic
It's not just sense fans thinking a 1st is realistically a possibility.
Last edited:
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
The Devilish Buffoon
🇵🇸 viva 🇵🇸 free 🇵🇸
- Dec 24, 2018
- 12,085
- 10,906
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
what I got out of the discussion was that he better take a low offer or gone for maybe a 2nd round pick...
Most think he is Gonzo
Ouroboros
There is no armour against Fate
- Feb 3, 2008
- 14,997
- 10,279
I'm sure Pageau would be thrilled to take a 35% pay cut in the midst of a career season. Seems realistic.
AchtzehnBaby
Global Matador
InTkachukWeTrust
Registered User
- Nov 10, 2013
- 1,810
- 736
DJB
Registered User
- Oct 24, 2008
- 22,542
- 29,864
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,167
- 9,909
Billy Bridges
Registered User
- Sep 20, 2011
- 412
- 617
Overpaying him and matching against the top C of other teams for the next 3-4 years while the the young Cs develop is worth it IMO.
bert
Registered User
So trade Tierney when his value is its absolute lowest. When everyone over values draft picks. The time to trade him is now if they plan on doing it. So a team can have him for two playoff runs. This is exactly what is wrong with this organization.
Rather lose him for nothing trying to sign him than that return. He is worth way more than that. The minimum return will be a first rounder.
Last edited:
- Status
