Yannick Weber

[HSD19]

If they could lock up Weber at $2m for several seasons, it would help take the sting out of the sting of the Sbisa contract. No way that happens though, obviously.

In the salary cap era there is very little margin for error and you have to maximize value wherever possible. We may have shot ourselves in the foot this week with the two signings which may follow with losing guys like Weber who actually fit what we need.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Interesting situation with Weber. Would seem to be a no-brainer to qualify him - at worst he's quality depth and his qualification salary is low enough it doesn't hurt to much if he ends up getting demoted.

But he's arbitration eligible. If he gets qualified, he has a decent case for a fair raise with his 11 goals. The Canucks could not walk away from his award.

Ouch, forgot about that. Perhaps Benning might not even give Weber a qualifying offer rather than be stuck with paying him $3 million. Makes the Sbisa contract even dumber than I thought it was (didn't think that was possible) - re: Weber using Sbisa's contract to his advantage in arbitration.

 

[Proto]

Keep Weber, trade Bieksa. That would be fine and would solve a bunch of problems. It would also allow the team to do something like Clendening/Corrado (or Biega?) sharing 3rd pairing RD with some kind of 50/50 split.

If they did something like that, it would make me less annoyed by the Sbisa signing. He's an overpaid bottom-pairing guy, but if he's playing with another clear bottom-pairing defenseman, he probably sees his minutes reduced to 15-16 minutes.

 

[Proto]

A 25-year-old defensemen with significant league experience (enough to have a substantial individual CF%/GF% sample) is unlikely to make more than a modest improvement in CF moving forward. The Canucks Army article actually looked specifically at players who fell within Sbisa's "cohort" -- that is, players with significant experience that were routinely sub 50% CF players. The conclusion was that Sbisa is a good bet to improve "modestly" but will more than likely still be a mediocre-at-best third-pairing defenseman. His only real value is providing that consistently and being a big body that might stay relatively healthy?

Weber has a spottier track record and provides a ton of utility on the power play, making him a more unique case. I'd suggest there's a lot more room to grow with him as he gets more minutes at the NHL level. He's been a more than competent 2nd pairing defenseman. I think some people gave me "the business" for suggesting he was propping Hamhuis up earlier this year, but I still believe it. When given the minutes and a competent parnet (Hamhuis), Weber has probably been at worst the 4th best defenseman on the team. Factor in special teams and I might put him 3rd, at least for this year.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

A 25-year-old defensemen with significant league experience (enough to have a substantial individual CF%/GF% sample) is unlikely to make more than a modest improvement in CF moving forward. The Canucks Army article actually looked specifically at players who fell within Sbisa's "cohort" -- that is, players with significant experience that were routinely sub 50% CF players. The conclusion was that Sbisa is a good bet to improve "modestly" but will more than likely still be a mediocre-at-best third-pairing defenseman. His only real value is providing that consistently and being a big body that might stay relatively healthy?

Weber has a spottier track record and provides a ton of utility on the power play, making him a more unique case. I'd suggest there's a lot more room to grow with him as he gets more minutes at the NHL level. He's been a more than competent 2nd pairing defenseman. I think some people gave me "the business" for suggesting he was propping Hamhuis up earlier this year, but I still believe it. When given the minutes and a competent parnet (Hamhuis), Weber has probably been at worst the 4th best defenseman on the team. Factor in special teams and I might put him 3rd, at least for this year.

I'd put him at 4th for the past 20 games or so.
Earlier on he was getting out muscled defensively. Based on the eye test, he has looked better lately defensively. But I'd like to see if its a permanent improvement so I'd give him a one year deal.
I don't really see his career situation as unique from Sbisa. Sbisa was just thrown into the NHL an earlier age.
Both have struggled to find a top 4 spot. Weber is also a year older.

 

[Lundface*]

I'd put him at 4th for the past 20 games or so.
Earlier on he was getting out muscled defensively. Based on the eye test, he has looked better lately defensively. But I'd like to see if its a permanent improvement so I'd give him a one year deal.
I don't really see his career situation as unique from Sbisa. Sbisa was just thrown into the NHL an earlier age.
Both have struggled to find a top 4 spot. Weber is also a year older.

Sbisa was once a highly touted high 1st round pick. Like others (Barker, Parent etc) teams try and give these guys every opportunity. Sbisa has been tried in the top 4 several times by multiple teams. Every time he has, he's failed miserably.

Weber is a smallish, mid round pick. As even WD mentioned, despite having good results he was somewhat unfairly not given a chance. But the first time in his career, the guy was thrown a bone and to many peoples surprise, he actually handled it extremely well.

It's also going to be extremely difficult to teach Sbisa how to defend (his instincts are an issue, especially gap control and in front of the net) and more difficult to give him Weber's shot

These two aren't comparable at all in the type of opportunity they have received up until this point. But once they have, Vancouver prefers Weber beside Hamhuis in a top 4 role.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I forgot to add in Weber's favor in arbitration....he plays the right side. Much rarer than left side D.

 

[Alflives*]

Should we force out Bieksa to make money available for Weber? Like what we did last summer with Garrison.

 

[tantalum]

In his last 25 games Weber has seen less than 18 minutes of icetime three times and two of those times he was over 17:30.

As with the forwards, the coaching staff is trying not to have big minute guys on the blueline. If a guy is in the lineup on any sort of regular basis they are going to get 16+ minutes. Corrado trails the average icetime on the team at 15:40.

In essence they are almost treating every D-man like other teams treat there 2-4 guys. And over the last quarter of the season Weber has established himself into the lineup. Surely Benning recognizes this. If not then trouble seriously is afoot.

note: Edler is the lone recipient of that elevated time at 24 minutes.

 

[VanJack]

Should we force out Bieksa to make money available for Weber? Like what we did last summer with Garrison.

If they could trade both Miller and Bieksa, they could fit everyone under the cap, and re-sign all of their RFA's and remaining UFA's Richardson and Mathias....but can't see that happening....They can qualify Weber as an RFA I guess, but can't see how they could resign either Mathias or Richardson

 

[Ernie]

Should we force out Bieksa to make money available for Weber? Like what we did last summer with Garrison.

Different situation.

Bieksa is not a very good defenceman anymore and is not likely to get better. His contract expires next season, too, so if he's not in the Canucks 5 year plan they might as well move him now to recoup any assets they can get for him. He'd still be very attractive to a budget conscious team as his salary is $2m lower than his cap hit next season.

Send him to Florida where he can reunite with Lu and Mitchell and play a year in the sun.

 

[Toxic0n]

Wow, so it seems putting our most skilled defender with the best shot on the PP with our most skilled players actually works. Who'd have thunk?

Incredible it took the Sedins asking for it 75 games into the year to make it happen.

Good news on Weber is that his usage for most of the year probably limits his salary to $1.5-$1.8 million next year. With Clendening being gifted a roster spot, that still might not be enough to keep him around, though.

Um, all he has to do is point at Sbisa's new contract and say "Give me that" and any arbitrator would agree.

 

[arttk]

Um, all he has to do is point at Sbisa's new contract and say "Give me that" and any arbitrator would agree.

Yep, same team, better numbers across the board.

 

[tantalum]

Um, all he has to do is point at Sbisa's new contract and say "Give me that" and any arbitrator would agree.

The fan in us would say that but when it comes to arbitration everything I've ever seen or read suggests that experience plays a significant role in things and Sbisa has over a season more or games in the same time period. And as much as we'd like to not think about it Sbisa also "established" himself as an everyday D-man on two different teams where Weber really hasn't until arguably this year.

Yes you can point to stats but those other things do hold water. And believe me I realize Weber has played better especially of late.

 

[Ernie]

Um, all he has to do is point at Sbisa's new contract and say "Give me that" and any arbitrator would agree.

Not really. There would be plenty of comparisons to other players who received much less than Weber. But Sbisa is definitely a comparable that other teams around the league are not going to be happy about. Actually going to arbitration is a rarity now though.

 

[Addison Rae]

he shouldnt be asking for more than 2 million. sign him to a one year 1.5 million dollar deal, torey krug a better version of weber got that.

 

[God]

Wow, so it seems putting our most skilled defender with the best shot on the PP with our most skilled players actually works. Who'd have thunk?

Incredible it took the Sedins asking for it 75 games into the year to make it happen.

Good news on Weber is that his usage for most of the year probably limits his salary to $1.5-$1.8 million next year. With Clendening being gifted a roster spot, that still might not be enough to keep him around, though.

From what botch wrote, it seems like the Sedins asked for it when other teams figured out Vrbata. So that was probably around November/December? And then it took Edler getting injured in February for Weber to finally get PP1 time.

Someone should tell Willie that his philosophy of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" doesn't work when it is broken.

 

[WTG]

he shouldnt be asking for more than 2 million. sign him to a one year 1.5 million dollar deal, torey krug a better version of weber got that.

He should be asking for 4m

I mean if I was in Weber's shoes and see Sbisa a potential top 4 defenseman got 3.6m per that only scored 3 goals this season. Then look at my self and say well I scored 11 goals on the season and am already playing in the top 4. I would want more than what Sbisa got.

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

From what botch wrote, it seems like the Sedins asked for it when other teams figured out Vrbata. So that was probably around November/December?

Which is, you know, around the time when we discussed it here. A lot.

But we don't know anything about hockey.

Me on October 18, 2014:

I wasn't a big fan of garrison but I think we're really missing him on the PP. He wasn't a qb but his shot would give us a second weapon that we sorely lead. Right now the pk just has to keep the puck from Vrbata and we're shut down.

Henrik Sedin, whenever:

Once teams started taking away Vrby. Nothing against Eddie up top, but if you give the puck to him, he’s got no one-timer.

“He’s got to walk the line and try to find lanes. In today’s era, you have three, four guys blocking shots from up there.

“It’s so tough to get the puck to the net, if you don’t have the one-timer."

It's just so frustrating.

 

[Addison Rae]

He should be asking for 4m

I mean if I was in Weber's shoes and see Sbisa a potential top 4 defenseman got 3.6m per that only scored 3 goals this season. Then look at my self and say well I scored 11 goals on the season and am already playing in the top 4. I would want more than what Sbisa got.

I'm sorry but I hate this logic. Sbisa and Weber aren't similar players at all. Why not use players that Weber's actually similar to in terms of playing style? you didn't see Tanev asking for 5 million last year, everyone knew he was a better player than Bieksa yet he only got 2 million on a short term deal.

offer weber a 1 year 1.5 million dollar contract, which would bring Bieksa, Hamhuis and Weber to UFA status next year. Reevaluate the D then.

 

[WTG]

I'm sorry but I hate this logic. Sbisa and Weber aren't similar players at all. Why not use players that Weber's actually similar to in terms of playing style? you didn't see Tanev asking for 5 million last year, everyone knew he was a better player than Bieksa yet he only got 2 million on a short term deal.

offer weber a 1 year 1.5 million dollar contract, which would bring Bieksa, Hamhuis and Weber to UFA status next year. Reevaluate the D then.

Well I agree with you that Sbisa and Weber aren't similar players.

But, if I'm Weber I'm thinking I can get a payday seeing what Sbisa got. Weber's got leverage. 11 goals on the season playing top 4 minutes. He can use Sbisa as an example of how Benning signed a potential top 4 defenseman to a 3.6 million per contract. Then point to himself and say I'm already a top 4 defenseman that brings something unique to the table on this team. Goal scoring from the back line.

I'd be surprised if Weber signs a 1.5m deal. I'm expecting 3m+ at this point.

 

[Addison Rae]

Well I agree with you that Sbisa and Weber aren't similar players.

But, if I'm Weber I'm thinking I can get a payday seeing what Sbisa got. Weber's got leverage. 11 goals on the season playing top 4 minutes. He can use Sbisa as an example of how Benning signed a potential top 4 defenseman to a 3.6 million per contract. Then point to himself and say I'm already a top 4 defenseman that brings something unique to the table on this team. Goal scoring from the back line.

I'd be surprised if Weber signs a 1.5m deal. I'm expecting 3m+ at this point.

Tore Krug also had "leverage" he was top 5 in D goal scoring league wide. There's an obsession with size in this league, I for one think size, grit and intangibles are grossly, grossly overrated but NHL gm's are infatuated with it, especially our GM. Undersized PP specialists don't get huge pay days in this league there's numerous of examples that can be used in Benning's case.

If Weber signs with the Canucks it will probably be under 2M.

 

[WTG]

Tore Krug also had "leverage" he was top 5 in D goal scoring league wide. There's an obsession with size in this league, I for one think size, grit and intangibles are grossly, grossly overrated but NHL gm's are infatuated with it, especially our GM. Undersized PP specialists don't get huge pay days in this league there's numerous of examples that can be used in Benning's case.

If Weber signs with the Canucks it will probably be under 2M.

I hope you are right.

 

[Lundface*]

I'm sorry but I hate this logic. Sbisa and Weber aren't similar players at all. Why not use players that Weber's actually similar to in terms of playing style? you didn't see Tanev asking for 5 million last year, everyone knew he was a better player than Bieksa yet he only got 2 million on a short term deal.

offer weber a 1 year 1.5 million dollar contract, which would bring Bieksa, Hamhuis and Weber to UFA status next year. Reevaluate the D then.

Yeah that's about what he would get.

That's if they resign him. Benning has already committed to Clendening on the NHL roster. Tanev, Bieksa, Clendening on the right. Not sure Weber would want to be a 7th/8th dman after the year he's had.

 

[Addison Rae]

Yeah that's about what he would get.

That's if they resign him. Benning has already committed to Clendening on the NHL roster. Tanev, Bieksa, Clendening on the right. Not sure Weber would want to be a 7th/8th dman after the year he's had.

Meh, you could always use Clendenning as your 7D, and we all know that we'll go through our fair share of injuries, so he'll play.