Proposal: Yandle to LA to improve their PP and brings some laughs to Hollywood

Good trade for both teams?

  • LA - Hello no, not the right move for Kings right now

  • LA - Don't hate it but don't love it, it's a maybe

  • LA - It's a good deal, we can make it work

  • FLA - Hello no, Yandle is still needed with Panthers

  • FLA - it helps clear cap space but is the return good enough?

  • FLA - Yes, this works for both teams, we need LW depth


Results are only viewable after voting.

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
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I agree and I say so in my post when estimating the overall cost. Otherwise the price is at least three firsts.

What are you agreeing to here?
Yandle isnt a cap dump or he would take pressure off Doughty?

What comparable trade are you using to evaluate 3 firsts or more to move Yandle?
 

Docgonzo

Triple Crown Line
Jan 9, 2010
2,421
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Chino, Ca
Nope, I do not want any member of the 2012 Coyotes on the Kings. Hated that team, Yandle’s dumb comments after the series we a step below Dr Doan’s comments.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
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Take Byfield #2.

Oookay that's obvious and cheeky response but was hoping the poster would go into detail after.

If you were Kopitar or Doughty, would you be okay with tanking another year or two?

They add a decent puck moving D and a short term C/W and they can probably compete for a playoff spot if Quick can handle 40-50 games this year. Sprinkle in prospects the next few years
 

bernmeister

Registered User
Jun 11, 2010
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Oookay that's obvious and cheeky response but was hoping the poster would go into detail after.

If you were Kopitar or Doughty, would you be okay with tanking another year or two?

They add a decent puck moving D and a short term C/W and they can probably compete for a playoff spot if Quick can handle 40-50 games this year. Sprinkle in prospects the next few years

Good pts
Do we think he can?
 

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
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Good pts
Do we think he can?

He may have to. He played 46 and 42 the last two years. Turns 35 in January.
Although Cal could improve and challenge for a 40/40 or 45/35 split behind a better defense.
His two cups of coffee with LA are encouraging and that's behind a building defense.

Wouldn't read too much into his AHL stats as ONT had 3-4 rookies on their defense unit this past year.
They moved Campbell and kept Cal for a reason, just entering his prime at 25 years old and Quick is a solid mentor for him.
 

Guitpik

Registered User
Jul 8, 2006
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Oookay that's obvious and cheeky response but was hoping the poster would go into detail after.

If you were Kopitar or Doughty, would you be okay with tanking another year or two?
The course was pretty obvious when Doughty was extended. If he had a big problem with the King's course of action, I doubt he would've signed on. Kopitar is the captain with a team first mentality.

The Kings are rebuilding to ice a different type of team than what they have had in the past. Blake had maintained a management team that is 100% dedicated to that goal. One thing we don't see is Blake signing 30+ players since the Kovalchuk debacle.

At this point of the rebuild, bringing in older, single dimensional players is counter to their direction. They do need to elevate from their own pipeline to take that spot. However, they aren't in "Win Now" mode and have no need to make a trade like this.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
28,409
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The course was pretty obvious when Doughty was extended. If he had a big problem with the King's course of action, I doubt he would've signed on. Kopitar is the captain with a team first mentality.

The Kings are rebuilding to ice a different type of team than what they have had in the past. Blake had maintained a management team that is 100% dedicated to that goal. One thing we don't see is Blake signing 30+ players since the Kovalchuk debacle.

At this point of the rebuild, bringing in older, single dimensional players is counter to their direction. They do need to elevate from their own pipeline to take that spot. However, they aren't in "Win Now" mode and have no need to make a trade like this.

Hard to turn down the 8th year option and $88 mil though. He has been vocal about not using rebuilding as an excuse.

The trip from Stanley Cup champ to also-ran hasn’t been easy for a dressing room that’s been used to having success.

“That’s probably the most difficult part for us older guys,” Doughty said after the club’s skate at the Canadian Tire Centre Wednesday afternoon. “We were on top of the world for three or four years there and now we’ve got the other end of it. It’s really hard and mentally I struggle with it every day.

“We’re just going out there trying to be a good L.A. Kings’ team, representing the organization well and the good thing about us is we’re always going to play our butts off. We’re going to play as hard as we possibly can until the final whistle. Whether’s it’s 7-1 for the other team or we’re winning 3-2. You’re going to see the same game plan. That’s one thing we can be really proud of with the L.A. Kings.”
And, Doughty he doesn’t want anybody using the decision by the organization to reshape the roster as an excuse.

“I don’t like being patient,” Doughty said. “You guys can talk about rebuilding and anyone in the organization can talk about rebuilding but we’re not looking at it that way. We’re looking at it that we’re trying to make a playoff spot. There’s no point playing for nothing.

“I mean, who wants to play out there expecting to not make the playoffs? We’re going out there trying to make the playoffs and I know we’re quite a ways out right now but it’s still a long season we’ve still got (67) games or whatever it’s left. We’ve got some time but we need to start rolling here really soon.”

“None of us in here are kind of like, ‘Oh, we’re rebuilding, let’s let the season be a write-off’ and all those types of things,” said Doughty

From an article in November 2019.


Never said they were in win now mode. Nobody expects a building team to go from 70-75pts to a contender, its a process.
Some teams have shown they can re-tool in 2 years instead of a 4-5 year rebuild.

For me OTT and DET went full rebuild.
You guys are re-tooling imo because you still have Kopitar and Doughty but feel some LA fans think they need a 4-5 build even those two above would be into their mid to late 30s by the time they start contending.

So we know Byfield at #2.

What positions do you feel are of need with those three 2nd rounders if you draft them?

More D? Winger depth?
 

bernmeister

Registered User
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He may have to. He played 46 and 42 the last two years. Turns 35 in January.
Although Cal could improve and challenge for a 40/40 or 45/35 split behind a better defense.
His two cups of coffee with LA are encouraging and that's behind a building defense.

Wouldn't read too much into his AHL stats as ONT had 3-4 rookies on their defense unit this past year.
They moved Campbell and kept Cal for a reason, just entering his prime at 25 years old and Quick is a solid mentor for him.

All could be true, I just don't have enuf info as to does Quick actually have enuf left in the tank.
"He may have to" is subordinate to what he actually can still deliver, and I don't know how much that is.
 

Guitpik

Registered User
Jul 8, 2006
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557
Hard to turn down the 8th year option and $88 mil though. He has been vocal about not using rebuilding as an excuse.



From an article in November 2019.


Never said they were in win now mode. Nobody expects a building team to go from 70-75pts to a contender, its a process.
Some teams have shown they can re-tool in 2 years instead of a 4-5 year rebuild.

For me OTT and DET went full rebuild.
You guys are re-tooling imo because you still have Kopitar and Doughty but feel some LA fans think they need a 4-5 build even those two above would be into their mid to late 30s by the time they start contending.

So we know Byfield at #2.

What positions do you feel are of need with those three 2nd rounders if you draft them?

More D? Winger depth?
If Doughty wanted out, that eighth year wouldn't stop him. He would've gotten paid elsewhere.

The Kings are transforming to a completely different system with a different strategy. That's not adding different pieces to the same system. This is very much a rebuild.

There will come a time in where the Kings will be ready for trade(s), now is not the time. Blake may look at bridge deals like a Hutton type, but not trading assets for a Yandle type.
 

bernmeister

Registered User
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not to go off tangent here, subject for a dif thread, but other thread evaluating OEL to Bos thought retained Yandle a possible there.

mentioned here to establish, small number, but def 1-2 alternate sites for Yandy-man:
BOS
MON
 

KingsofLA

Registered User
Jan 21, 2020
184
159
It's been brought to my attention some LA fans may be interested in a PPQB to improve their PP?
This is not my personal offer but one of FLA's posters and feel it makes some sense for both teams.
Adds/+'s to either side or retention on Yandle if need be

:panthers

Iafallo
Grundstrom


:kings

Yandle
Heponiemi




Iafallo - 1 year left @ $2.425 million
- he may not be in their long term plans and may block some younger kids from playing time.
- he'll be 27 in December and likely looking for a decent raise
- fits in more with FLA's timeline a bit.
- May help replace some offense if both Dadonov and Hoffman walk

Grundstrom - 2 years left @ 725k (don't know much about him)
- 23 years old in December
- strengthens FLA's LW depth in one trade.
FLA needs some size and players who can challenge for bottom 6 time next year.

Yandle - 3 years left @ $6.35 million
- 3rd in PP points (78) in the last 3 years, just turned 34 two days ago
- needs to keep his ironman streak alive (hasn't missed a game in over a decade) but has been reduced to 3rd line minutes under Q
- still a capable puck moving LD, would take some responsibility off Doughty's shoulders.
- FLA would be willing to retain a bit to make it work

Heponiemi - 2 years left on ELC at 925k
- still possesses very good offensive instincts, needs to adapt to quicker/physical AHL/NHL
- very elusive and projects as a middle 6 playmaker.
- stalled a bit in his first year in AHL but could get going again if re-united with Kupari (Liiga team mate)
- LA adds more skill to their LW depth chart


Thoughts? :dunno:
Trading a 26 year old winger playing on the 1st line for a 34 year old dman playing in the 3rd pairing is not a winning recipe. LA already has Sean Walker as the puck mover on the 3rd pairing and has the cap space to sign a Hutton type players. Mikey Anderson will be given opportunity to play on the top PP unit who has some offensive potential and will need the experience. LA also has Clague and Bjornfot close to making the team, Yandle was would just clog up the 3rd pairing at 6.35 million for 3 years
 

Telos

In Gavrikov We Must Trust
Aug 16, 2008
32,547
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He is too old. There isn't much of a reason for LA to pay to add a defenseman like him when they aren't looking to really compete this year. They are looking for a veteran defensemen, but what they really mean is they are looking for a 28-33 year old stopgap UFA or very inexpensive trade to help the kids develop.
 
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kevsh

Registered User
Nov 28, 2018
3,200
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I'd first ask Panthers fans if there's any chance of Yandle being exposed for the expansion draft?

If so, then L.A. would be doing Florida a favour, and as such, would be in a position to offer less than a fair hockey trade going the other way. I.e. At least take Iafallo out of this offer.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
11,239
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Los Angeles
What are you agreeing to here?
Yandle isnt a cap dump or he would take pressure off Doughty?

What comparable trade are you using to evaluate 3 firsts or more to move Yandle?

I was agreeing that the salary hit is three firsts but because Yandle is not a useless player plus Hepo is in there, plus retention on Yandle, the additional cost of picks will not be three firsts. Maybe one first will do.

Previous trades of salary dumps usually are of 5 mil salaries of one year term cost either a top prospect or a first. Since the term here is three years (with retention to about 5m) it’s three firsts, in a vacuum. Then subtract Hepo and the fact that Yandle is not a useless player, I’ve gotten down to a first. Basically it’s to cover the third year.
 

TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
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I was agreeing that the salary hit is three firsts but because Yandle is not a useless player plus Hepo is in there, plus retention on Yandle, the additional cost of picks will not be three firsts. Maybe one first will do.

Previous trades of salary dumps usually are of 5 mil salaries of one year term cost either a top prospect or a first. Since the term here is three years (with retention to about 5m) it’s three firsts, in a vacuum. Then subtract Hepo and the fact that Yandle is not a useless player, I’ve gotten down to a first. Basically it’s to cover the third year.

Not that I don't agree with you here but can you post some examples?
Not sure there is one where it's been multiple years recently outside Zaitsev? And he wasn't even retained, he was moved at full cap-hit.
Lucic was retained a bit in the Neal deal.

We just saw Bjugstad retained down from $4 million to $2 million and got a conditional 7th.

So what we looking at here then?

Yandle retained down to $4.85 mil (FLA retains 750k, X team retains 750k)
Heponiemi
*2022/2023 1st* - 2020 1st (12th) isn't moving and unlikely 2021 1st will too, FLA could be a bottom 10 team next year.

for

Grundstrom
2020 3rd (CBJ)

Not saying I do it but just curious what you're thinking after all this back and forth, which I appreciate.
 

duckpuck

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I think this year with Covid, flat cap, lower revenues, etc, $6.35M in cap space (and almost that much real $$) is worth a lot more than the current version of Keith Yandle. Teams are going to be giving up assets to dump salary and there will be a Buyer's market for many UFAs (only the elite guys will get paid).

I see no reason for the kings to do this deal given that they are still years away from contention.
 
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TheImpatientPanther

Florida Flukin Panthers > LTIR Maple Leafs
Jan 17, 2013
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Ontario, Canada
I think this year with Covid, flat cap, lower revenues, etc, $6.35M in cap space (and almost that much real $$) is worth a lot more than the current version of Keith Yandle. Teams are going to be giving up assets to dump salary and there will be a Buyer's market for many UFAs (only the elite guys will get paid).

I see no reason for the kings to do this deal given that they are still years away from contention.

He's owed $13.2 million but caphit is just over 19 million total.
We (FLA) offered retention to under $5 million cap and that brings money owed down to around $8.5 million total.
 
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Jean Luc Discard

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Jul 11, 2014
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and almost that much real $$

iirc signing bonuses are paid on the first the day of the season so if Yandle is traded later on then his base salary for this year is $2.75mil which in turn would average out his salary to $4.33mil for the remaining part for his contract.
 

Jean Luc Discard

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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He's owed $13.2 million but caphit is just over 19 million total.
We (FLA) offered retention to under $5 million cap and that brings money owed down to around $8.5 million total.

Perhaps the opposite side of the table should conduct some door-to-door interviews, like proposing Giordano plus couple of first round picks for some C-tier prospect in LA's pool.
 

Rorschach

Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Oct 9, 2006
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Los Angeles
Not that I don't agree with you here but can you post some examples?
Not sure there is one where it's been multiple years recently outside Zaitsev? And he wasn't even retained, he was moved at full cap-hit.
Lucic was retained a bit in the Neal deal.

We just saw Bjugstad retained down from $4 million to $2 million and got a conditional 7th.

So what we looking at here then?

Yandle retained down to $4.85 mil (FLA retains 750k, X team retains 750k)
Heponiemi
*2022/2023 1st* - 2020 1st (12th) isn't moving and unlikely 2021 1st will too, FLA could be a bottom 10 team next year.

for

Grundstrom
2020 3rd (CBJ)

Not saying I do it but just curious what you're thinking after all this back and forth, which I appreciate.

There are several deals for a similar salary/cap hit but usually no one is willing to take on a multi-year hit. Toronto dumping Marleau to Carolina is one. Most teams are unwilling to tie their hands for more than one season. The going rate for 5-6 mil is understood to be a 1st rounder. I’ve tried to be fair to just do a rate 1x per year in the term but to be real, very likely each year after the first would probably cost more and more.
Also, Grundstrom is a deal-breaker. We have a ton of young centers (9 on the farm, 3 in the NHL) and only a handful of wings.
 
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LeafChief

Matthew Knies Enthusiast
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Instead of giving up assets for a PPQB, Kings should just sign Barrie. He's not nearly as bad as he looked this year in Toronto. He just couldn't find a groove. I'm certain he still has good years left in him. More than Yandle for sure.
 

bernmeister

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There are several deals for a similar salary/cap hit but usually no one is willing to take on a multi-year hit. Toronto dumping Marleau to Carolina is one. Most teams are unwilling to tie their hands for more than one season. The going rate for 5-6 mil is understood to be a 1st rounder. I’ve tried to be fair to just do a rate 1x per year in the term but to be real, very likely each year after the first would probably cost more and more.
Also, Grundstrom is a deal-breaker. We have a ton of young centers (9 on the farm, 3 in the NHL) and only a handful of wings.

this
you can be picky and say a full 6 is a 1st and 5-5.99 is a 2nd/2nd+, but pretty much this
 
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bernmeister

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Instead of giving up assets for a PPQB, Kings should just sign Barrie. He's not nearly as bad as he looked this year in Toronto. He just couldn't find a groove. I'm certain he still has good years left in him. More than Yandle for sure.

I'm not so sure.
Barrie is overrated AND he sucks.

Yandle actually can play but is getting older and showing wear and tear.
However, only 3 more years so....
 

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