Yandle as a forward

[jacobhockey13]

With Yandle's dubious future here, I was wondering what you guy's think about turning him into a winger. It might seem a bit outlandish, but it actually seems interesting. If Brent Burns can do it...

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[Sciamachy]

Burns had played on the wing plenty when he was younger so it wasn't just an out of the blue transition for him when he moved.

 

[rt]

There is nothing dubious about his future. He's an excellent defenseman.

 

[rt]

Burns had played on the wing plenty when he was younger so it wasn't just an out of the blue transition for him when he moved.

True. Burns played wing in the OHL and was drafted as a wing.

 

[IPreferPi]

Not sure what's with the characterization of Yandle's future as dubious - he's our leading scorer over the past 2 seasons, the 2nd highest scoring d-man in the league since 2010-2011, and an alternate captain who resigned at a very fair deal in the midst of ownership hell. Career-worst +/-, yes, but after putting it into context, Yandle's defensive play is still pretty much in line with the Karlssons and Letangs of the league.

 

[CC96]

Typically defensemen who are converted to wing play a power forward style and have previous experience playing the position in juniors. Think Brent Burns and Dustin Byfuglien. Not only does Yandle have no prior experience playing wing, he doesn't have the large size to compensate for that lack of experience either.

 

[jacobhockey13]

Good points

I definitely agree Yandle will stay. Come to think of it, I don't even know why I said "dubious future". Guy was the only one on the team who could carry the puck through the neutral zone last year. But the idea of him as wing tempts me. Maybe like a late-in-game need a goal situation. Sort of like how we used to put Jovanoski in front of the net.

 

[Sciamachy]

I would also add that if there was any inclination from DM or Tip to try something like this I think they would have tried it with Rundblad before shipping him out.

 

[jacobhockey13]

I would also add that if there was any inclination from DM or Tip to try something like this I think they would have tried it with Rundblad before shipping him out.

Definitely true. I don't see this as likely but as more of a musing. Tippet doesn't strike me as the type to try this. Not saying that's bad, just the kind of the coach he is. I think you guys have actually convinced me this was a pretty stupid idea. No one can deny that we do need up front to be bolstered

 

[KG]

Yandle also isn't very physical. That's good for his ironman streak and at defense but not so much at forward where forechecking is critical.

 

[Desert Ice 11]

Did Dustin Byfuglien play wing or center before he was moved to a forward position when he was on the Hawks?

I think Yandle would be out of his element and would have to learn a new way of playing. Probably would be a bad idea but its an interesting thought.

 

[Vip]

I wish we would've tried it with Rundblad.

 

[HerrDonut]

More often than not I find Yandle's defensive efforts poor. Relatively, at the very least. I'd be behind the 'try him out at forward' idea 100%. Icing six defensemen who are consistently good at playing defense would be lovely. Having his offensive talents, plus the defensive skills that he occasionally shows, up top as a result would be nice too.

/unpopular opinion


I dearly wish I loved Yandle at least half as much as Doan does.

 

[XX]

/unpopular opinion

I don't think it's a necessarily unpopular opinion. Every Coyote fan knows Yandle can lose you a few games a year. He can also outright win you a few games. Mostly it's that everyone has forgotten what an air-tight defense looks like because he's been here so long. Yandle is extreme variance in a system that shoots for reliability and consistency. It's a paradox, and for the last two seasons it really hasn't worked the way you hope it would. He can't be "the guy" and he needs to be sheltered by bigger, stronger D. Haven't had that for two seasons.

I really wouldn't mind trading him for a really nice forward or two, and then pick up Ehrhoff on the cheap or someone else to replace him. The offense is not going to suddenly dry up, and the puck will not stay in the Coyotes zone the entire game. He's replaceable. Many teams get by (and win) without a dedicated puck mover. His points would shift to other players getting more touches.

He's got the heart and the fire to be a captain but not the consistency or the effort. One of those guys that the C could totally transform or completely undo. Either way, I don't want to find out. I hope he moves on or is traded long before that ever becomes a situation.

 

[hbk]

if you don't feel Yandle's elite transition game overshadows his 1-2 defensive gaffs per game then you simply just move him. You don't go to a seasoned vet like Yandle and offer this alternative to him. It's an extreme insult and almost a certain guarantee that he heads for greener pastures (and you receive nothing) when free agency calls.

There is a lot of trade talk already with various teams desperate to move big names. We aren't desperate but we are able to capitalize on the right deal. I'm in the camp that wants to move Yandle for pieces which better fit into a Dave Tippett team which improve our Top 6 significantly.

 

[cactus shake]

In terms of moving the puck, the defence is the one consistently elite part of this team. I’d much rather continue to build around OEL & Yandle and get the composition right, than sacrificing that strength to do so. In 2015 (whether we still suck or not) when OEL’s salary jumps from 4m to 6m, Yandle is 1 year removed from free agency & Gormley’s an RFA (with hopefully a full NHL season to judge him on), then I could understand them seriously assessing their options.

The variance in the system comment is spot on, but I think the team has evolve by finding ways to incorporate that kind of talent. I still feel the Ribeiro signing was a positive step, it just wasn’t executed nearly well enough (too many players including Ribeiro didn’t play hard enough, & not enough talent was placed around him for the move to pay off).

This year the composition of the defence sucked, thanks to no veteran providing reliable D beyond Michalek (who as it is must have to pretty much live in an ice bath). It’s going to be tight salary wise, but unless they're completely blown away by an offer, I’d rather they tried to add an SAHD & some scoring help without breaking up the core for one more offseason at least. But maybe that's blind faith that we won't just see another repeat of this season.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

if you don't feel Yandle's elite transition game overshadows his 1-2 defensive gaffs per game then you simply just move him.

I think Yandle's name in the trade rumor mill for the past few years signifies that the 1-2 defensive gaffes per game (which is kind of a low estimate IMO) are weighing on the minds of management.

I love Yandle's loyalty, his team play, his effect on the room, his incredible transition game when he gets a chance to use it, and his shot (when he takes it and doesn't pull the ol' double-clutch move). But here's the thing - it's questionable that the Coyotes have enough talent and depth to compensate for all the other stuff, and that's a very practical concern.

Before OEL came around, Yandle would have been untouchable, IMO. But OEL has all of Yandle's skill and virtually none of his baffling lapses. With Murphy and Gormley on the way and Summers resigned, I don't know how much longer Yandle sticks around - especially if some team gets desperate and offers us the moon for him.

 

[Naych_PHX]

They barely ever played 7 dmen. And this is the team you could do it with.

As much i fantasize about Yandle on the wing, it's not gonna happen.

 

[PhoPhan]

I think Yandle's name in the trade rumor mill for the past few years signifies that the 1-2 defensive gaffes per game (which is kind of a low estimate IMO) are weighing on the minds of management.

I don't think you can draw any correlation between unsourced rumors and management opinion. I think the rumors come from the same place as all of our discussions: he's by far the most valuable player anybody would be comfortable moving on this team. He's the best of the touchables.

I love Yandle's loyalty, his team play, his effect on the room, his incredible transition game when he gets a chance to use it, and his shot (when he takes it and doesn't pull the ol' double-clutch move). But here's the thing - it's questionable that the Coyotes have enough talent and depth to compensate for all the other stuff, and that's a very practical concern.

That's not questionable. It certainly wasn't questionable when the Coyotes won the division and made it to the conference finals. Some modest roster tweaks would go a long way toward compensating for whatever shortcomings he has, while the current composition this past year made them more glaring than ever.

Before OEL came around, Yandle would have been untouchable, IMO. But OEL has all of Yandle's skill and virtually none of his baffling lapses. With Murphy and Gormley on the way and Summers resigned, I don't know how much longer Yandle sticks around - especially if some team gets desperate and offers us the moon for him.

OEL does not make Yandle redundant. Yandle makes OEL more effective. Toward the end of this past season, Tippett seemed to have decided that he needed to reduce OEL's minutes a bit to make him more effective overall. Early in the year, OEL and Yandle often spent the full two minutes of a powerplay on the ice together, but as the year progressed, you usually saw OEL come off halfway through with Stone relieving him. But they could only make that move knowing Yandle would be out there the whole time. If Yandle were gone, OEL would be playing the full two minutes (limiting his effectiveness in other situations) and someone else would have to pick up another shift (and I don't think anyone is stoked about having Schlemko or Michalek on the PP). That's just one example.

At even strength, OEL and Yandle are never on the ice together. So while they have similar puckmoving skills (I'd argue Yandle's are superior at present), having both of them makes this team twice as dangerous.

Could Murphy and/or Gormley make Yandle redundant? Maybe, but they're definitely not there yet and their play to date suggests very different styles from both of them.

 

[PhoPhan]

I also wish we would stop talking about the lapses. It's kind of the same reason you can't judge a goalie just on his highlight reel saves. The goalie who is always in the right position will never have to make a diving stick save, but the guy flopping around and batting pucks out of the air is usually the guy who is trying to recover from overcommitting or mistracking the puck.

With defensive lapses, you'll only really catch them if the guy is in the right place to begin with. There's no way to quantify that against all the times the opposition was able to make something happen because you were out of position in the first place or just got lost somewhere. As far as turnovers are concerned, Yandle's skillset makes it so the puck is on his stick pretty frequently. I don't know where to find this stat, but I would guess his completed pass to turnover ratio is pretty high.

 

[DesertDawg]

one of the problems this off-season is trying to find the one player to compliment Yandle on the blue line. Fayne was bounced around, thought about McQuaid if he can get back to 100% (I expect the Bruins to be shopping him, partly for cap reasons and partly for being passed over in depth). The Coyotes need an effective Yandle to compete! And it's all about his partner and the forwards he's out there with!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I also wish we would stop talking about the lapses. It's kind of the same reason you can't judge a goalie just on his highlight reel saves. The goalie who is always in the right position will never have to make a diving stick save, but the guy flopping around and batting pucks out of the air is usually the guy who is trying to recover from overcommitting or mistracking the puck.

With defensive lapses, you'll only really catch them if the guy is in the right place to begin with. There's no way to quantify that against all the times the opposition was able to make something happen because you were out of position in the first place or just got lost somewhere. As far as turnovers are concerned, Yandle's skillset makes it so the puck is on his stick pretty frequently. I don't know where to find this stat, but I would guess his completed pass to turnover ratio is pretty high.

I'll stop talking about Yandle's lapses as soon as they stop affecting the outcome of games in critical situations.

It's not like these are, "Whoopsie, my bad" type things. They are glaring missteps.

Listen, there will never be agreement between us on this topic because it's the same kind of debate one has about home-run hitters in baseball. I happen to be of the opinion that signing a high-priced slugger who will hit 40 home runs a year is useless if he can't play his position and if he strikes out whenever he's not hitting. Other people feel differently (like Kevin Towers, for instance).

For you, Yandle's upside eliminates - or at least marginalizes - his downside. That's as valid an opinion as mine. But from my seats over the past several years, I am far less able to excuse his defensive performance at his position.

Maybe if the roster gets adjusted so that he gets someone actively responsible in his own end to partner with, the downsides get ameliorated. I certainly hope that happens, because as I mentioned before it's not like I hate the guy. But I also think that in certain respects he's a liability that cost us games this year.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Yandle has been a + player mostly up until this season. Let's give the guy a break and see what he does this season with a better partner. DeMo was brutal in his own end. He'd occasionally throw the big hit, but defensively he needed help and that isn't who you want with Yandle. We need to put Z with Yandle and give OEL someone else to work with.

 

[hbk]

i actually really liked Yandle's game this year. He performed well overall this year for us. He had one bad stretch and was caught on the ice for what 12 empty net goals this year? Overall though, I thought he was our best D man for much of the season (ahead of OEL). i know that's a controversial opinion but when i compare actual performance versus expectations for my money Yandle had a good year. He's exceptionally talented with the puck and vastly under-appreciated on these boards.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Yandle has been a + player mostly up until this season. Let's give the guy a break and see what he does this season with a better partner. DeMo was brutal in his own end. He'd occasionally throw the big hit, but defensively he needed help and that isn't who you want with Yandle. We need to put Z with Yandle and give OEL someone else to work with.

I think Z is better off with OEL. Z is very defensively responsible but he's not as fast as he used to be. Whoever partners Yands on the right side has got to be able to quarterback the D zone and backtrack at speed if necessary. That may have to be the result of a trade because I don't know if anyone in our pipeline fits that mold.