Post-Game Talk: YA BLEW IT | Leafs lose 3-2 in OT

[MyBudJT]

Andersen's SV% is up from .918 last season to .923, we added Tavares and now Muzzin but we're on pace for just one more point than we finished with last season. Do you really think that we can't do any better than that?

I mean, COME ON!!! Are you serious?

I never stated that we couldn't do better, but to suggest that Babcock doesn't have a clue on how to get the best out of these players is irrational.

 

[RLF]

Time to stack the 2nd line. Enough farting around Babcock. Lets go:

Hyman Tavares Marner 20 min
Kadri Matthews Nylander 20 min
Johnsson Marleau Kapanen 12 min
Moore Gauthier Ennis 8 min

Rotate Brown and Petan in when needed

I don't get the idea of the talk about moving Marleau to centre. The guys legs seem to be going on him. His first few steps are slow. So we are going to put him in the most taxing forward position skating wise? How does it help us having Marleau at centre? To me, you want Marleau to look worse, put him at centre.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I never stated that we couldn't do better, but to suggest that Babcock doesn't have a clue on how to get the best out of these players is irrational.

I wouldn't say he "doesn't have a clue" but I do think it's fair to say that he is not getting the best out of his players.

 

[Al14]

I never stated that we couldn't do better, but to suggest that Babcock doesn't have a clue on how to get the best out of these players is irrational.

Please do advise when Babcock is getting the best out of these players! He appears to be getting the best out of Hyman, however, he sure the hell leaves a lot to be desired in getting the upmost best out of Matthews and Nylander!

 

[MyBudJT]

I wouldn't say he "doesn't have a clue" but I do think it's fair to say that he is not getting the best out of his players.

I agree that we COULD be better, but I don't really think that the coaching is our largest issue.

I really don't think the problem is systematic (I.E. Line combos, line matching, systems in place).

The moments we are least effective as a team is when we don't compete for loose pucks, and are careless with the puck. This isn't really a coaching issue. This is a player (young team) issue.

Babcock coached teams have historically been widely recongnized as hard working and relentless. THIS YEAR'S team has NOT been that. Perhaps the coach has a part to do with this, but its a relatively smaller part.

 

[Bluelines]

The Babcock Apologists are out in full force now. Part of the point I made originally (which JT was responding to) was the very fact that a number of players are having good/great years individually yet as a team we have stagnated. That THE TEAM is not greater than the sum of its parts.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming of OMG BRO, Ballcock won a Cup 11 years ago!

*LOL. Babcock auto corrected to Ballcock. I like it. I think I'll keep it.

Umm.. we prefer to be called, the people who debate with facts and truths... or PWDWFAT.

Dude you can have what ever opinion you want about Babcock but if you want people to take you seriously base your opinion on quantifiable truths.

What is true is this team is a top 5 team. What is true is only one team has performed better with their goal differential than the Leafs. Goal differential is the simplest way to identify if the team is performing well. That is a result of the system we play. It's Babcock's system.

You can call the people who have opinions that are grounded in truths, "apologists" but what would you call people that have opinions based on nothing more than misinformation or intentional ignorance?

So again for the willfully ignorant who think they are making a point that Babcock sucks because he has not won a Cup in 11 years:

Of the 31 active NHL coaches, eight have won a cup, Babcock (2007-08), Crawford (1995-96), Hitchcock (1998-99), Julien (2010-11), Laviolette (2005-2006), Sullivan (2015-16, 2016-17), Tortorella (2003-04), Trotz (2017-18). So the only two coaches who have won something recently is Sullivan and Trotz, both are trailing Babcocks team in the standings. Sullivan team is currently fighting for its playoff life and may miss the playoffs and Trotz was viewed so negatively by the management group in Washington , they refused to offer him a contract extension before last season started.​

 

[Nineteen67]

I wouldn't say he "doesn't have a clue" but I do think it's fair to say that he is not getting the best out of his players.

Like who? I think it’s more of a case they players don’t fit their role.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Umm.. we prefer to be called, the people who debate with facts and truths... or PWDWFAT.

Dude you can have what ever opinion you want about Babcock but if you want people to take you seriously base your opinion on quantifiable truths.

What is true is this team is a top 5 team. What is true is only one team has performed better with their goal differential than the Leafs. Goal differential is the simplest way to identify if the team is performing well. That is a result of the system we play. It's Babcock's system.

You can call the people who have opinions that are grounded in truths, "apologists" but what would you call people that have opinions based on nothing more than misinformation or intentional ignorance?

So again for the willfully ignorant who think they are making a point that Babcock sucks because he has not won a Cup in 11 years:

Of the 31 active NHL coaches, eight have won a cup, Babcock (2007-08), Crawford (1995-96), Hitchcock (1998-99), Julien (2010-11), Laviolette (2005-2006), Sullivan (2015-16, 2016-17), Tortorella (2003-04), Trotz (2017-18). So the only two coaches who have won something recently is Sullivan and Trotz, both are trailing Babcocks team in the standings. Sullivan team is currently fighting for its playoff life and may miss the playoffs and Trotz was viewed so negatively by the management group in Washington , they refused to offer him a contract extension before last season started.​

Same ole talking points.

Good regular season team.
Babcock won a Cup 11 seasons ago.

You know other teams have fired coaches that have won the Cup after that, right? You know every single one of the coaches you mentioned (save Sullivan) is not with the team he won the Cup with, right?

Seems like coaches have a shelf life with a team. Babcock has exceeded his here in Toronto.

 

[Bluelines]

Please do advise when Babcock is getting the best out of these players! He appears to be getting the best out of Hyman, however, he sure the hell leaves a lot to be desired in getting the upmost best out of Matthews and Nylander!

So coaches can by sheer will alone make a poor performing player or a perceived under performing player play better, how do they do that exactly, close their eyes, grunt real hard, wish upon a star and poof, player X is now a 50 goal scorer?

So its Babcock's fault Willie showed up out of shape and its Babcock's fault AM has lost a bit of his drive?

Blaming other people is such a losers approach to life. It's up to AM and Willie to play to their full potential. Babcock sure isn't hurting Hyman, Kapanen, Johnnson, Rielly, Tavares, Andersen or Marners career now is he? They all seem to be flourishing under his leadership.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

So coaches can by sheer will alone make a poor performing player or a perceived under performing player play better, how do they do that exactly, close their eyes, grunt real hard, wish upon a star and poof, player X is now a 50 goal scorer?

So its Babcock's fault Willie showed up out of shape and its Babcock's fault AM has lost a bit of his drive?

Blaming other people is such a losers approach to life. It's up to AM and Willie to play to their full potential. Babcock sure isn't hurting Hyman, Kapanen, Johnnson, Rielly, Tavares, Andersen or Marners career now is he? They all seem to be flourishing under his leadership.

LOL. Can you even see the hypocrisy in the post?

Blaming other people for Babcock's failures is such a losers approach in life.

 

[DarkKnight]

Boston is a paper tiger. They got exposed as such by Tampa last year, and they lost to Ottawa in the first round the year before.



If you really can't understand the dynamic of how players decline and how referencing their past production is completely irrelevant, there's no helping you.

Really silly to not acknowledge Boston is a very good team.

 

[Bluelines]

Same ole talking points.

Good regular season team.
Babcock won a Cup 11 seasons ago.

You know other teams have fired coaches that have won the Cup after that, right? You know every single one of the coaches you mentioned (save Sullivan) is not with the team he won the Cup with, right?

Seems like coaches have a shelf life with a team. Babcock has exceeded his here in Toronto.

LOL, them darn facts getting in the way of your unsustainable opinion, gotta hate it when the truth is your enemy ...


You know every single coach that was fired, was fired when the team went into a slide not a top 4 team right? There is a reason why NHL teams don't typically fire their coaches when the team is playing as great as the Leafs currently are, I'll give you a hint because being sane is still a good thing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I agree that we COULD be better, but I don't really think that the coaching is our largest issue.

I really don't think the problem is systematic (I.E. Line combos, line matching, systems in place).

The moments we are least effective as a team is when we don't compete for loose pucks, and are careless with the puck. This isn't really a coaching issue. This is a player (young team) issue.

Babcock coached teams have historically been widely recongnized as hard working and relentless. THIS YEAR'S team has NOT been that. Perhaps the coach has a part to do with this, but its a relatively smaller part.

Fair enough. I don't agree but I can respect your opinion.

Like who? I think it’s more of a case they players don’t fit their role.

It's the coaches job to put the players in their proper roles thought isn't it?

 

[56 Years No Cup]

LOL, them dart facts getting in the way of your unsustainable opinion, gotta hate it when the truth is contrary to your own opinion...


You know every single coach that was fired, was fired when the team went into a slide not a top 4 team right? There is a reason why NHL teams don't typically fire their coaches when the team is playing as great as the Leafs currently are, I'll give you a hint because being sane is still a good thing.

The Leafs are getting points. Playing great....well not so sure about that.

Prove you're "playing great" by winning in the playoffs. Regular season "success" is not enough.

 

[Bluelines]

Really silly to not acknowledge Boston is a very good team.

I know right? Boston 18 game point streak, longest in the NHL but they are a paper tiger.

 

[Bluelines]

The Leafs are getting points. Playing great....well not so sure about that.

Prove you're "playing great" by winning in the playoffs. Regular season "success" is not enough.

It takes time to build a playoff team. Ask Ovi how hard it is to win the Cup. There needs to be a considerable amount of maturing on this roster. That is not Babcock or team systems, that is time and experience that will do that. If a coach could "make" his team win the Cup, the same coach would win it every year.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

It takes time to build a playoff team. Ask Ovi how hard it is to win the Cup. There needs to be a considerable amount of maturing on this roster. That is not Babcock or team systems, that is time and experience that will do that. If a coach could "make" his team win the Cup, the same coach would win it every year.

It took Vegas one whole year to go to the Stanley Cup Final. And they started from scratch.

 

[Bluelines]

It took Vegas one whole year to go to the Stanley Cup Final. And they started from scratch.

and they won what?

 

[56 Years No Cup]

and they won what?

3 rounds of playoffs more than Babcock has in the last 10 years.

 

[DarkKnight]

I know right? Boston 18 game point streak, longest in the NHL but they are a paper tiger.

This is what I mean about agendas around here. I too will be disappointed obviously if we can't beat Boston, but to try to frame it like a loss means complete failure, simply isn't reality.

That team is a juggernaut, no doubt about it.

It will be amazing series, that's for sure.

 

[MyBudJT]

It's the coaches job to put the players in their proper roles thought isn't it?

It IS, but the coaches role is much much more then that too. A coach doesn't only just coach to win today, they coach (and develop) individual players to be the best that they can, to ultimately set up long term success for the franchise.

I think Babcock's approach isn't about getting the best out of the team today... He's willing to make sacrifices to today's team to make the team better in the future.

Take Rielly for example.

Rielly had a solid 36 point season. WAS utilized on the PP, but had several holes in his game. The following seaosn, Babcock decided to give him minimal PP time, so that Rielly can focus on the defensive side of the puck. People here were up in arms about that... but in hindsight, this looks to be a great decision, as Rielly has not developed into a Norris caliber defensman, and is a huge asset for our organization.

Its clear to me that Babcock is trying to develop a defensive game into guys like Nylander... Matthews, etc. So although it may be perceived as Babcock playing players in "inappropriate" roles... I think its more of a case of our fanbase needing a little more patience.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It IS, but the coaches role is much much more then that too. A coach doesn't only just coach to win today, they coach (and develop) individual players to be the best that they can, to ultimately set up long term success for the franchise.

I think Babcock's approach isn't about getting the best out of the team today... He's willing to make sacrifices to today's team to make the team better in the future.

Take Rielly for example.

Rielly had a solid 36 point season. WAS utilized on the PP, but had several holes in his game. The following seaosn, Babcock decided to give him minimal PP time, so that Rielly can focus on the defensive side of the puck. People here were up in arms about that... but in hindsight, this looks to be a great decision, as Rielly has not developed into a Norris caliber defensman, and is a huge asset for our organization.

Its clear to me that Babcock is trying to develop a defensive game into guys like Nylander... Matthews, etc. So although it may be perceived as Babcock playing players in "inappropriate" roles... I think its more of a case of our fanbase needing a little more patience.

Yes I agree and as I said earlier (maybe not ITT, not sure) that I give Babcock top marks for his first couple of years but not this year. The focus today should be much less on developing for the future and much more on winning now.

I feel pretty strongly that this team is ready to win now, that the future is now if you will. Babcock should be stepping on the gas hard but it feels like instead, he is holding them back. We still have a month to go before the playoffs begin so who knows, maybe he has plans to start doing things differently any minute now but if he's still relying on guys like Hainsey and Marleau too much and not giving our best players more minutes in the playoffs and we lose again, I'd fire him, simple as that.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Time to stack the 2nd line. Enough farting around Babcock. Lets go:

Hyman Tavares Marner 20 min
Kadri Matthews Nylander 20 min
Johnsson Marleau Kapanen 12 min
Moore Gauthier Ennis 8 min

Rotate Brown and Petan in when needed

Never thought of this type of lineup but I like it especially if we load up the minutes on those 2 lines.
My only issue is does Marleau have lungs to withstand playing centre. But he can play very low in defensive end and very high in offensive end to help him out. He is pretty strong with puck on his stick still so it may work. If this went into effect I would swop Johnsson and Moore. Moore is stronger on the puck and can help out more defensively. I think Johnsson is getting traded anyways in summer so moving him down really does not matter.

 

[MyBudJT]

Yes I agree and as I said earlier (maybe not ITT, not sure) that I give Babcock top marks for his first couple of years but not this year. The focus today should be much less on developing for the future and much more on winning now.

I feel pretty strongly that this team is ready to win now, that the future is now if you will. Babcock should be stepping on the gas hard but it feels like instead, he is holding them back. We still have a month to go before the playoffs begin so who knows, maybe he has plans to start doing things differently any minute now but if he's still relying on guys like Hainsey and Marleau too much and not giving our best players more minutes in the playoffs and we lose again, I'd fire him, simple as that.

Its a long season though... I fully expect Babcock to "flip the switch' a little, and start being more concerned about the playoff run rather than development... but its still early March, and the playoffs are still about 5 weeks away... It also doesn't help that we've had injuries to key guys in Kadri, Gardiner and Dermott recently...

People here need to be less short-sighted.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Its a long season though... I fully expect Babcock to "flip the switch' a little, and start being more concerned about the playoff run rather than development... but its still early March, and the playoffs are still about 5 weeks away... It also doesn't help that we've had injuries to key guys in Kadri, Gardiner and Dermott recently...

People here need to be less short-sighted.

Can you define what you mean by "flip the switch" please?