X-SHARKIES Final Top 60 for 2004.

[fan1234]

How much did you see Stafford play to comment on his skills?

In Minnesota he turned Ballard (a first rounder '04)like a top.

In the final game of the world junior he went around both Phaneuf and Meech the same way.

Time will tell but you underrate his puck skills.

 

[Gwyddbwyll]

To have him ahead of Dubnyk and Shantz just because he had a very good U-18 tournament is shortsighted. Especially since he's playing HS hockey when Dubnyk and Shantz are playing at the highest level of junior hockey in North America.

Just curious.. do you also think that Blake Wheeler and Travis Zajac should be 9th rounders ?

 

[Hockeycrazed07]

Once again, Please, only comments on the 2004 Draft…if you don’t have a passion for the NHL entry draft, and are here to complain, please just keep it your self. I want to talk about the draft, not about my life.

Max, that's not up to you to decide. On a public message board, people will talk about what they want to talk about. They allow you to post what you want to, and now you'll have to grant them the same rights that you get. If you want to talk about the draft, then talk about the draft. In a republic, unless you're a government agent, you have no right to tell people what to talk about.

Back to this draft, I also don't have Lisin high on my draft list. I think he'll probably go in the 1st, but I've got him in the low-2nd. I guess it takes all types.

~Crazed.

 

[montreal]

I personally find all the bashing very weak. It's very very easy, if you think the kids a fraud, don't read his posts. Why come on here and crap on the poster, what does that do, make you feel like a big man? What are saving HF readers by trying to put down someone for taking the time to post something no matter where it came from, some people just want to read hockey stuff, not your full of crap dude, you suck!

But over time you'll just scare away posters and there will be nothing to read cause people will get tired of being bashed.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Why come on here and crap on the poster, what does that do, make you feel like a big man?

Because it's a public forum and I am free to respond to him. Because I believe I have the right to say what I think of his stuff and because I think at least a few people will as a result read his stuff more cautiously.

What are saving HF readers by trying to put down someone for taking the time to post something no matter where it came from, some people just want to read hockey stuff, not your full of crap dude, you suck!

They want to read a detailed scouting report on some defenseman who, in reality is a forward? And we're supposed not to point that this is just crappola? Keep dreaming. I will never, ever do that.

You're advocating for lots of content, whatever the substance in there and no matter if it's reliable or not? Weird but apparently a view shared by many.

However this isn't the first time I am scared by your views coupled with the fact you're an editor here. Again, I will remember to read your stuff and take it with a grain of salt.

Because, we can write whatever we want, put it hurriedly together and that's good stuff!

Right? Right?

I maintain that what he does is completely unethical. It is clearly in violation of HF rules too.

And I will continue to say it. Not going to be the first time that my stubbornness annoys a group of people and it's not the first time I will eventually be proven right.

 

[montreal]

Because it's a public forum and I am free to respond to him. Because I believe I have the right to say what I think of his stuff and because I think at least a few people will as a result read his stuff more cautiously.



They want to read a detailed scouting report on some defenseman who, in reality is a forward? And we're supposed not to point that this is just crappola? Keep dreaming. I will never, ever do that.

You're advocating for lots of content, whatever the substance in there and no matter if it's reliable or not? Weird but apparently a view shared by many.

However this isn't the first time I am scared by your views coupled with the fact you're an editor here. Again, I will remember to read your stuff and take it with a grain of salt.

Because, we can write whatever we want, put it hurriedly together and that's good stuff!

Right? Right?

I maintain that what he does is completely unethical. It is clearly in violation of HF rules too.

And I will continue to say it. Not going to be the first time that my stubbornness annoys a group of people and it's not the first time I will eventually be proven right.

Ok fine, but I think it's sad to be so harsh on someone posting there thoughts. So he made some errors, it happens, why do people love to jump on others errors. It will continue to go on until there are no more good posts left. Anyone notice that lots of the good old posters are not here anymore?

As for what I write, feel free to say what you want. I'm not professional, and I do this in my free time. I make mistakes, and it's impossible to see 40 prospects all the time. I do the best I can, but I rely on others comments when I am off base but it usually turns into worthless comments that are not hockey related like, "just no way he can be there" or "you overate this guy", which tells me nothing and does nothing for future articles. But take my articles with a grain of salt, no big deal to me, most of them are just stats updates from the different leagues.

If he's in the wrong, why not take it to HF not piss on the kids work? Or do you enjoy calling him out? I dont care if he's right or wrong, I just like hockey talk, I can make up my own mind, but I find it's crap when posters just bash and make personal attacks. I've brought this up to HF staff members in reguards to this thread, they should take a look at whats going on here.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Why is it that it's always the wannabe draft guru's who get so upset by these posts?

I don't see it that way. I come here to get information much more than I come here to share some. I believe the sum of knowledge on this board FAR exceed mine. Clearly, someone who comes here only to "flash" is losing his time because there's not much to gain.

It's like they're afraid this poster will start stealing their thunder.

Not at all. I am thirsting for information. Correct information. Things that make sense. Why is that perceived as being wrong? Why should I or others stay quiet and let misinformation run rampant?

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD. No one has their real identity up, and every post is caveat emptor (ok something like that, more "reader beware"). There is NO CREDIBILITY for anyone using a "handle". It's up to EACH reader to determine the validity or accuracy on their own.

Yes, and since this is a public forum, it's up to me if I want to point out that this magical teenage scout act is a joke. Clearly, I can't force anybody to agree but he's airing this in public.

I for one am very glad when people point out flaws or things that are incorrect, preventing me from falling into crap.

If you disagree or want to challenge some of his assertions, go for it. But this "Fraud" talk is pointless. How can anyone NOT be a fraud who is anonymous?

Just a guess but, by posting honest, correct information? By properly quoting? By properling giving credit? You know, all around just doing things the right way?

Obviously much of it's second hand information, but if he wants to run around accumulating and summarizing it while throwing in some of his own opinions on what he's seen, it actually does have some value. It certainly has interest for some.

So you think if I made stuff up, posted it here and it held people's interest, that would be a good thing? Really?

As a McKeen's and Redline subscriber, there is obviously better information I can read, but as one poster said, it generates discussion around players where new information is in fact revealed.

Yes. New information like forwards being scouted as defensemen. Yay! This is interesting stuff for sure!

We should let the entertainment value take precedence over correct information from now on!

 

[Holly Gunning]

However this isn't the first time I am scared by your views coupled with the fact you're an editor here.

Correcting a factual mistake here -- there are currently only two editors, myself and Ken McKenna. We no longer have team editors, everything is centrally edited.

Carry on.

 

[Sotnos]

People, this is getting WAY too personal, and it's not necessary, not to mention it's against the rules. If you have issues with Sharkies' list, take issue with that. If you have some personal issue with him, take it to PMs. Thanks

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Correcting a factual mistake here -- there are currently only two editors, myself and Ken McKenna. We no longer have team editors, everything is centrally edited.

Carry on.

Duly noted and appreciated!

For how long as it been that way if I may ask?

 

[X-SHARKIE]

How much did you see Stafford play to comment on his skills?

In Minnesota he turned Ballard (a first rounder '04)like a top.

In the final game of the world junior he went around both Phaneuf and Meech the same way.

Time will tell but you underrate his puck skills.

He has good in close skills, but I never seen him dangle the puck around, or stick handle in a phone booth. He has skill, no doubt, but I think his power game well cary him more then just skill like some of the others ahead of him...Much Like Keith Tkachuk who makes a living with his powerfull play but still has some good skill, but he's not skilled as say Jagr as an example. Just one mans thoughts, I only saw two NCAA games of his and him at the WJC's.

I think MOntreal symphothizes sp? with me because we both have a passion for finding out as much information on future players as possible. I first started getting tapes just to see Sharks prospects, I still mostly do that. Me and MOntreal have spoken before about exchanging tapes but right now I'm not willing to bargin the tapes I do have and the other he already owns him self. Watching a game on tape still is a good rescource, and having somone telling me hey just got back from the game, so and so looked like this, has proven to be very valuable in the past.
If you don't like my top 60 because so and so is to low, or I like somone to much...Perfectly fine, but if you want me to explain my self for the tenth time, then PM. Thank you.

 

[Holly Gunning]

Duly noted and appreciated!

For how long as it been that way if I may ask?

Every article has been copyedited and fact-checked by me since May of 2003, so one year. Doesn't mean that there are never any errors of course, everyone has some, but they are drastically reduced.

We gradually phased out the team editor term over that time period, as it no longer described our practices. We put a final end to it a couple months ago.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Where do you see Tyler Haskins going Sharkie?

Tyler is very very underated! I agree, I love his edge and chippiness he brings...he's a quick little guy out there, shifty..... Where he'll go? 3rd round probally..... Doesn't oooze scoring potential but I love his edge, shiftiness, illusiveness, but he's a small player. His defensive game is taking huge steps in the right direction and he seems to play and score when his team needs it most...witch scouts love....His stock is rising.

 

[RANGERDIEHARD]

Well other than the WJC's and some College hockey on TV there is no easy way that I can learn about these prospects. Posters like X - Sharkie has given me an insight on players that I would never have had. I can deal with the spelling mistakes and I really don't care if he saw, shook hands or had dinner with all of the prospects that he has written about. To question the authenticity of his work is one thing but some of these posts are abrasive and an obvious attempt to attack him so that he simply doesn't post his opinion anymore. If you don't agree with something he writes then rebut it intelligently with something rational.

 

[Hiishawk]

These rankings are a load of crap. This guy has done what so many other people do on this site, he's picked up bits and pieces of information from the internet and other sources on players and he's thrown it together and made it sound like it's his informed opinion. There is so much information that is factually wrong that it's not possible to take these rankings serious.

This is my last post regarding criticisms:
To Cdn Hockey and others- you state that Sharkie lifts bits from other internet sources. A Julien Ellis profile from McKeen's was produced to buttress that argument. "See! It sounds just like another site" is the claim.

BUT...
at the same time, people claim that Sharkie's lists are full of factual mistakes! Now, if he just lifted his stuff from other sites how would/could this happen unless these other sites were also full of mistakes?

You can't argue it both ways.

To his credit, Sharkie HAS made points about a few Euro players (whom I generally see a lot of) that, to the best of my knowledge, were not found anywhere else online but were still spot on (IMO).

Note to Sharkie- Max, if you haven't actually seen a player why not write, "Apparently he is..." or "According to X, he is..", "I've heard that he is...". You may eventually want to be a scout and are thus trying to write like a scout but for now I think hedging your claims in this way would be better. That goes for others too.

And when I talk about USHL, USHS, Can. Tier 2 and some NCAA (these are the leagues I visit least), I'll do the same.

 

[X-SHARKIE]

Note to Sharkie- Max, if you haven't actually seen a player why not write, "Apparently he is..." or "According to X, he is..", "I've heard that he is...". You may eventually want to be a scout and are thus trying to write like a scout but for now I think hedging your claims in this way would be better. That goes for others too.

And when I talk about USHL, USHS, Can. Tier 2 and some NCAA players (these are the leagues I visit least), I'll do the same.

Sounds good. Learn and move on....I'll shall do that

 

[rt]

Vlad, I have agreed with your every post on this thread. Furthermore, post #55 had me rolling on the floor. When you typed, "You're advocating for lots of content, whatever the substance...", you hit the nail right on it's little, flat, metal
head. Oh, and the dancing bannana was priceless too. I stopped reading what Sharky had to say on about prospect 40 or so, when it occurred to me, that according to him, every kid on the list was a future all-star. If I was you, though, I would try to have a good laugh at it privately, rather than getting upset and hijacking the thread. Try to be this guy :lol not this guy .

 

[rt]

Oh, and to sharkie: I really apreciate your enthusiasm, as well as your effort. Also, if you take some of steblick's advice, I will really enjoy reading your future posts, as you already know a whole helluvalot more than me about these prospects. Whether it be from Mckeen's, Redline, or your "magical"(also very funny, vlad) hockey tapes, its still more than I know.

 

[V for Voodoo]

Posters like X - Sharkie has given me an insight on players that I would never have had.

Oh you like insight? Here's some more, at no charge;

Sidney Crosby is the best goalie to come out of the Q since Luongo. 135pts for a netminder! Not too friggin shabby. Keep an eye on him. Also, Dustin Rose is NOT the second coming. He is overrated.

Of course, they are totally false and nonsensical, but it's insight nonetheless, which you seem to like regardless of whether it is accurate or not.

 

[leafaholix*]

Duly noted and appreciated!

For how long as it been that way if I may ask?

Maybe you should make sure you have your facts straight before attempting to mock montreal.

However this isn't the first time I am scared by your views coupled with the fact you're an editor here. Again, I will remember to read your stuff and take it with a grain of salt.

Everybody makes mistakes... believe it or not, you do too.

 

[mowthecat]

I am Max Giese, im 16 years old, Live in Wisconsin, and i've been watching the NHL entry draft since 1997. So there goes who I am talk lol.

Man, I come on this thread, seeing that there’s 50 plus votes and I’m excited to talk about the draft with all of you….there is like what, 3 posts talking about the 2004 entry draft? This is a joke. If you don’t like me then don’t read what I post, I explained my self countless times and it’s getting old.
I’m not going to sit here and say I saw all these players….I didn’t. But I won’t stand here and let people say I stole this information or stuff like that. I saw most, but some of it is 2nd hand info. You’re right, I should give credit where credit is due. I would like to think a family friend of mine Rick W, He’s a retired man living near Thunder Bay, He has provided me with information and tapes for a long time. In return I tape NCAA games off the dish. He travels to CHL games and has been to tournaments across the world, He was the first person to ever really sell me on Michalek a year ago, and a lot of the information I get is from discussions from him. He is a long time friend, grew up and played hockey with and still talks to Bill Wray of the Sudbury Wolves…So believe me when I tell you I’ve heard all about how great Ryan McDonough is and how he’ll improve the team immedietly ect.
I would also like to thank the some of the locals from Seattle, Maine, Moosejaw, and Ottawa for helping me with getting game footage. Former poster Stock Rocks has helped me in the past but I haven’t spoke with him in quite awhile. I also read Redline, and McKeens draft updates just like any other fan and I sure do listen to the people who see them more then I could ever dream of...who doesn't.
BACK TO THE DRAFT: Olver was a honest mistake. I watched Michigan play this year to see Montoya, Olver was Quaterbacking the powerplay. He caught my eye and I watched him a bit, His defensive zone work is impressive. Honest mistake.
2nd…Julien Ellis. I don’t know why your comparing my stuff to some one elses.. How many different ways can you a player plays? McKeens hit the guy right on the dot IMO. Theres no two ways to correctly explain how a player plays the game. Two people watching Peter Forsberg play, well come away and both say wow he’s one strong and competitive player. So I don’t see the problem there.
I still back my Schneider opinion. I saw him play in Green Bay this summer and I was in awe, and the performance he put in at the U-18 just proved he can do it vs high competition.
So Finland beat the Czechs 3-2…It sure as hell wasn’t Schwarz fault. He played amazing.

Once again, Please, only comments on the 2004 Draft…if you don’t have a passion for the NHL entry draft, and are here to complain, please just keep it your self. I want to talk about the draft, not about my life.

So you're 16 and neither you nor your retired buddy are currently or ever have been pro scouts? You can make opinions on players by watching a few NCAA and Moose Jaw Canuck tapes? I think that makes your draft list suitable for oragami myself.

I'm constantly amazed by posters here sounding off on prospects when its painfully obvious they've never seen them play a single game, and lists like this should be chalked up to being entertainment versus any sort of hard knowledge. I'll put up any amount of money someone cares to name that Mr Shark hasnt seen 6 of these prospects live and on the ice, never mind that he hasnt the credentials to be talking the way he does.

Myself I'd like to see some credentials or at least an upfront admission that this is all in fun, is purely circumspect, and has absolutely no relevance to anything that will happen on draft day outside of numbers 1 and 2. I dont think theres one pick here past those thats anything close to factual, and my 4 year old could have managed that in 30 seconds.

I dont know who to feel sorrier for. HF for allowing this drivel to be printed on its website and viewed by prospective regulars, or the people that read it and feel they're getting something valuable out of the experience.

FTR I have no problem with some kid being a keener unless he's trying to pass himself off as someone with half a clue.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Maybe you should make sure you have your facts straight before attempting to mock montreal.

I did not attempt to mock him. Perhaps you also need to get your facts straight? I expressed my concern.

Everybody makes mistakes... believe it or not, you do too.

Indeed, we all make mistakes. Hardly news to me. Now keep me posted when this becomes relevant to the subject at hand.

 

[Holly Gunning]

I dont know who to feel sorrier for. HF for allowing this drivel to be printed on its website and viewed by prospective regulars, or the people that read it and feel they're getting something valuable out of the experience.

ALL of you really need to understand the distinction between www.hockeysfuture.com and www.hfboards.com. Articles are "printed" on Hockey's Future that are written by staff members and edited by the editors. The general public posts on hfboards.com with only an anonymous screenname, just like you. While there are rules of against personal attacks and copyright violation, we do not control what people can and cannot say beyond that. That wouldn't be practical, let alone make sense.

Please understand the difference between the two domain names. If you don't find the message boards enjoyable, don't visit them. But don't confuse them with the main site, which you did with your terminology.

 

[joechip]

Well other than the WJC's and some College hockey on TV there is no easy way that I can learn about these prospects. Posters like X - Sharkie has given me an insight on players that I would never have had. I can deal with the spelling mistakes and I really don't care if he saw, shook hands or had dinner with all of the prospects that he has written about. To question the authenticity of his work is one thing but some of these posts are abrasive and an obvious attempt to attack him so that he simply doesn't post his opinion anymore. If you don't agree with something he writes then rebut it intelligently with something rational.

I agree. Not all of us are plugged in to the situation or, more importantly, SPEND MONEY things like RLR and CSS. I get my prospect information from these message boards so and appreciate the effort and resources spent by EVERYONE who spends their time bringing their slant on the subject to me. Gadfly's like Vlad and Jason Mac are just rude. It takes a lot more stones than I have to put these things up here, and I don't see them doing it either. Their posts come from, I think, passion about the game, and that's commendable, but that still doesn't excuse them from bahaviour they'd never engage in if we were sitting in a room together talking about it. That's one of the big problems with internet message boards.

The best way to deal with posts like their's is to ignore them, which is the same advice I have for them the next time X-Sharkie posts his Draft Report.

Thanks X-Sharkie, the information and time spent putting this together is greatly appreciated. I have no idea if your opinions are valid/invalid or products of a delusional episode, but you obviously care enough to disseminate information and be willing to stand by it in a public forum. That's more than can be said of your detractors.

Ta,

 

[RANGERDIEHARD]

Oh you like insight? Here's some more, at no charge;

Sidney Crosby is the best goalie to come out of the Q since Luongo. 135pts for a netminder! Not too friggin shabby. Keep an eye on him. Also, Dustin Rose is NOT the second coming. He is overrated.

Of course, they are totally false and nonsensical, but it's insight nonetheless, which you seem to like regardless of whether it is accurate or not.

Its insight - I never said that I hinge on everything he or anyone else writes on these boards or in any draft publication as gospel. That's the point; I don't need you or anyone else to write a disclaimer that the info written may or may not be accurate. Even if he, or anyone else, did see every single prospect live that still doesn't mean that their insight or analysis of their ability is accurate. Thanks for the heads up though, appreciate it.