GDT: WWE Royal Rumble (28th January 2018) - Double Value!

[Natey]

I think you're really selling Trish short here. A lot of the appeal behind Trish and the reason why people connected with her so much and hold her so high is because of how she started in the company as nothing more than an eye-candy manager to being one of the very best in a ridiculously short amount of time. Victoria, Ivory, and Molly were on paper better wrestlers but they had nowhere near the charisma and appeal that Trish did (especially when she was heeling it up). Not to say they were bad as they all had great moments under the spotlight but Trish could make the most out of the spotlight (though you are right that she was given stronger pushes than the other ladies). Trish was dynamic and could be put into any role and thrive in it and the way she's held up today is well-warranted and deserved.

People seem to forget that for a very long time, Mickie vs. Trish at WM22 was considered one of the best women's matches in the companies history. Mickie deserves a lot of credit for that incredible feud too but the whole story and match (botch aside) was fantastic and Trish put a lot into that.

I'm not selling her short at all, from my point of view. She was an atrocious worker who improved ten-fold to become a very decent wrestler. Maybe even sliding into the "good" category. And having the best match (with a phenomenal worker, mind you) back then wasn't really anything special. There wasn't much competition because most women's matches were 2 minutes. And sure, Trish had the most charisma with Lita (although I could argue that heel Ivory had a shit ton of heat), but that's not what we were really talking about.

If we're just talking about being over? The Bella Twins are over. Simple as that.

PS. I'm not a Bella Twins fan either. There are literally probably a hundred women I'd rather see in the ring over either of them.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

Any news/comments on the Lesnar/Strowman situation? The knee was certainly stiff but Lesnar's two punches were definitely intentional. Strowman looked legitimately rocked.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think Nikki and Brie are both awful in the ring. Brie tries to be like Bryan, but she can't do it lol. I'd easily, easily, easily take Trish over both of them in the ring. Not even close, really.

Given that it was the first ever women's rumble, I can understand why they brought so many legends back. But they should have put the young talent over most of the legends. I'm still baffled today how they let Michelle McCool get, what, 4/5 eliminations? Lol. That could have gone to someone like Sonya Deville to establish her as a force.

 

[Emperoreddy]

They didn’t because they see Sonya Deville as a mid carder.

The full timers they see as potential stars got the rubs. The top of the card women. They let Sasha look strong, Asuka, Moon, Jax, Becky. Charlotte would have cleared the ring twice if she was in the match.

Mid carders job to the legends to make them look good, and in turn they job to the stars to make them look good.

 

[Kimi]

Yeah, I've no issue with the women's match.

Sonya really is valueless right now. She's bad at wrestling and everything else, and only exists to make up numbers. Her looking strong doesn't give you anything to work with going forward.

The entire division is going to revolve around whatever they are going to be doing with Ronda, so you need good workers to carry her matches (read the likes of Sasha, Becky, Ruby and so on). And they all looked good in the match.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Trish Stratus was fantastic, and if last Sunday was any indication, she still is. Molly Holly and Victoria could do more physically, but Stratus had more presence - especially as a good guy. Towards the end there, she was telling better stories in 3 minutes than her male contemporaries on RAW were telling in 10.

No Way Out 2001 vs. Stephanie McMahon, Unforgiven 2002 vs. Molly Holly, Chicago Street Fight vs. Victoria, WrestleMania XIX vs. Jazz and Victoria, Backlash 2004 handicap match with Christian vs. Chris Jericho, RAW Main Event vs. Lita, New Year's Revolution 2006 vs. Mickie James... she had a diverse career of great matches that didn't get a whole lot of time. And not surprisingly, the two most well-received singles matches of her career were the only two where she got to go longer than 8 minutes: WrestleMania 22 and Unforgiven 2006.

30-year-old Trish Stratus would be killing it in this era of long matches. 42-year-old Trish Stratus still could. She does Krav Maga and hot yoga; she does not tire.

 

[GKJ]

The thing I was thinking about the women's match, is how many of them really needed to look good? Not that it's a reason Michelle McCool needed to throw people out and Ruby Riot didn't, there wasn't a reason, but in the long run, I just don't think people will remember stuff like that, and maybe that has to do with Ronda. For me it doesn't (although I probably will remember those eliminations). But for those who feel that Ronda overshadowed Asuka winning the rumble, then it more than squashes random eliminations in the middle of the match. Most of that was forgotten by the next night, on Raw they put the 2 women in the ring who got the most out of the rumble match. It would be nice if it did, but it just won't, and the crowd was popping more for returning 'legends' doing things in the ring, and the bottom line is that in this scenario, you have to keep the match over. Especially since it's the second rumble. People, especially the crowd, it's something they wanted and expected out of this match. They were spaced out so that the crowd didn't die. But overall, it's most of the big spots that will be more important. Beth and Nattie was a cool spot. Sasha and Trish is something I wish they can deliver further on. Naomi staying in the match. Ember looking down Asuka got a bigger pop than I expected. Sasha throwing out Bayley (who is dead as a character no less) was a bigger deal than any elimination by a legend, or anybody else would have done when you come out at 14 and exit at 13.

I heard John Pollock say Pat Patterson was around this weekend, I wonder if they brought him back into the fold for this night.

In pretty short order, we're going to be over-crowded and not nearly enough air time once we do another round of call-ups. There's 4 or 5 girls knocking on the door in NXT who we didn't even see in the match besides Ember, and that's before you get to Ronda.

By the way, I have to say being live for not just the first women's rumble, but also the first time we had 2 rumbles in the same night, this is something i'll never forget. I think I took a thousand pictures or videos. It's quite the jaunt, but the overload is worth it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah, I've no issue with the women's match.

Sonya really is valueless right now. She's bad at wrestling and everything else, and only exists to make up numbers. Her looking strong doesn't give you anything to work with going forward.

The entire division is going to revolve around whatever they are going to be doing with Ronda, so you need good workers to carry her matches (read the likes of Sasha, Becky, Ruby and so on). And they all looked good in the match.

Pretty much. The most important thing was to make the winner look as strong as possible since a lot of storytelling got the next year is going to revolve around Asuka.

The rest is to start the Ronda buzz as everything else revolves around her until they eventually do the Asuka/Ronda match in what I assume will be in a year or so.

Making the next tier look strong is so you have big matches for the big 4/5 for both of them.

Rumble was Mission Accomplished IMO

 

[Virtanen18]

Is Nikki Bella retired?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Is Nikki Bella retired?

No. Just a part timer.

 

[dahrougem2]

Don't get fixated on Sonya Deville. That was just an example. I said I didn't really have much of a problem with the women's match but they could have given Michelle McCool's eliminations to others. Not even all of them. Sure, midcarders are there to make legends/stars look good; McCool didn't need to look that dominant as a legend.

It's the only gripe I have about the match, but it's a legitimate gripe IMO.

 

[tp71]

Don't get fixated on Sonya Deville. That was just an example. I said I didn't really have much of a problem with the women's match but they could have given Michelle McCool's eliminations to others. Not even all of them. Sure, midcarders are there to make legends/stars look good; McCool didn't need to look that dominant as a legend.

It's the only gripe I have about the match, but it's a legitimate gripe IMO.

I would agree with you. It was ok to give the McCools and Litas etc an elimination or two, but McCool got the most eliminations out of anyone. Imagine if someone like Sonya or anyone else for that matter could lose, but boast having the most eliminations. At least that's something you can talk about.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I would agree with you. It was ok to give the McCools and Litas etc an elimination or two, but McCool got the most eliminations out of anyone. Imagine if someone like Sonya or anyone else for that matter could lose, but boast having the most eliminations. At least that's something you can talk about.

Sonya is a non-entity. Why would they ever give her the most eliminations in the match? This is like suggesting Apollo Crews or Mojo should have the most eliminations in the men’s rumble to elevate them.

Jax and Asuka came in too late to be tossing 5 plus people so it really doesn’t matter.

It will matter less when Jax eliminates 9 people in next year’s Rumble.

 

[Kimi]

Is Nikki Bella retired?

After her neck problems and surgery she's I don't think she's allowed to be full time any more.

 

[GKJ]

From Dave:

Cruiserweight Trios **1/2
Bullet Club v. Revival **1/2
Roode v. Mojo *3/4
AJ Styles v. Owens/Zayn ***1/2
Usos v. Gable/Benjamin ***
Men’s Royal Rumble ****1/4
The Bar v. Seth/Jordan **1/4
Lesnar v. Strowman v. Kane **
Women’s Royal Rumble ***1/4

My ratings:

Cruiserweight Trios **1/2
Bullet Club v. Revival **1/2
Roode v. Mojo **
AJ Styles v. Owens/Zayn ***3/4
Usos v. Gable/Benjamin ***
Men’s Royal Rumble ****1/2
The Bar v. Seth/Jordan **3/4
Lesnar v. Strowman v. Kane **
Women’s Royal Rumble ****

 

[tony d]

Good to see all the former divas back for the Royal Rumble. Good to see some of them can still go. Trish proved once again why she's the greatest diva ever.

 

[tp71]

Sonya is a non-entity. Why would they ever give her the most eliminations in the match? This is like suggesting Apollo Crews or Mojo should have the most eliminations in the men’s rumble to elevate them.

Jax and Asuka came in too late to be tossing 5 plus people so it really doesn’t matter.

It will matter less when Jax eliminates 9 people in next year’s Rumble.

The point isn't really give it to Sonya. It's more of that you could have given someone that accolade on the current roster than someone doing a one time return. Sonya is largely irrelevant to the point. You could give it to anyone. Give it to someone who is actually going to matter in the future. Someone you can say look what they did even if they didn't win.

Sasha can talk about how long she lasted, and no one can talk about how they have the most eliminations because they're not there. Kinda backwards if you ask me.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Which one is Sonya?

 

[Kimi]

The one with the terrible 'hair up and square up' line.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Observer says Ronda will have an easy Brock like schedule.

Full time....

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

I think you're really selling Trish short here. A lot of the appeal behind Trish and the reason why people connected with her so much and hold her so high is because of how she started in the company as nothing more than an eye-candy manager to being one of the very best in a ridiculously short amount of time. Victoria, Ivory, and Molly were on paper better wrestlers but they had nowhere near the charisma and appeal that Trish did (especially when she was heeling it up). Not to say they were bad as they all had great moments under the spotlight but Trish could make the most out of the spotlight (though you are right that she was given stronger pushes than the other ladies). Trish was dynamic and could be put into any role and thrive in it and the way she's held up today is well-warranted and deserved.

People seem to forget that for a very long time, Mickie vs. Trish at WM22 was considered one of the best women's matches in the companies history. Mickie deserves a lot of credit for that incredible feud too but the whole story and match (botch aside) was fantastic and Trish put a lot into that.

Idk man.

Trish was very good when she was in a match with a better worker. When she had to carry a match, it's not pretty.

Granted, she had absolutely nothing to work with, and maybe that's why she is as respected as she is, but I don't see her working good with the women's talent at the moment if all were in their prime.

I don't see a match of Asuka against prime Trish being anything remotely good.

 

[Natey]

I think Nikki and Brie are both awful in the ring. Brie tries to be like Bryan, but she can't do it lol. I'd easily, easily, easily take Trish over both of them in the ring. Not even close, really.

Given that it was the first ever women's rumble, I can understand why they brought so many legends back. But they should have put the young talent over most of the legends. I'm still baffled today how they let Michelle McCool get, what, 4/5 eliminations? Lol. That could have gone to someone like Sonya Deville to establish her as a force.

They literally just had Deville beat Sasha. Deville seems like someone they'll end up aligning with Rousey. Or building up and then jobbing to Rousey in 30 seconds.

 

[Natey]

Idk man.

Trish was very good when she was in a match with a better worker. When she had to carry a match, it's not pretty.

Granted, she had absolutely nothing to work with, and maybe that's why she is as respected as she is, but I don't see her working good with the women's talent at the moment if all were in their prime.

I don't see a match of Asuka against prime Trish being anything remotely good.

Yup.. who were Trish's best matches against? Mickie, Molly, and Victoria. All some of the best women's workers in US history. Joshi was a lot closer to the female workers of today, but that wasn't really used much back in the 90s/00s.

Man, I remember the Jumping Bomb Angels in the late 80s. They were awesome.

Asuka is more than good enough to carry "prime" Trish though. It would be a good match, just not great like the matches she's had with Bayley, Emma, or even Mickie James.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Yup.. who were Trish's best matches against? Mickie, Molly, and Victoria. All some of the best women's workers in US history.

And Jazz and Lita and Stephanie McMahon. And those six? Guess who their best matches were with? Trish Stratus. Every single one of them. I mean, who didn't have their best match against Trish Stratus from that era? Probably just Melina (Backlash 2007 vs. Mickie James).

 

[GKJ]

It was a different time back then. There were moments when they had good matches, but they were very often the exception. The ceiling back then for the women was just above the floor in terms of the expectations, and they so rarely were given the time back then. If they came up with a 2 1/2-Star match back then, that was really good, something to be proud of. Now, it’s rather underwhelming as it would be for anyone.