WWE: WWE Network and Business Thread III [network count a "genuine disappointment"]

NewAgeOutlaw

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It's a weird situation. WWE has done such a good job at establishing their brand that the company makes money regardless of the quality of the product.

At the same time, the network seems to have reached its zenith, ratings are slowly declining, and attendance is not as high as it could be. You have to wonder how things will look in 5 years if they continue to spit in the face of their fans with their awful booking. At some point even the die hards are gonna get fed up and move on.
 

M.C.G. 31

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Also... they have 196 wrestlers under contract. That's just wrestlers. Not agents, writers, etc.

They have four brands and keep trying to hoard talent so other promotions don't have them.
 

Shoalzie

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The Network is keeping me engaged in the product. I love the old content and with the PPV being dirt cheap, I'll watch those so I'll continue to watch the weekly TV shows. I wouldn't pay for the PPV at their old cost and then I'd lose interest in the weekly storyline stuff. With NXT and the other events exclusive to the Network...I'd hate to say but I'd probably pay a few bucks more a month if they every raised the price.
 

joshyhockey26

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The Network is keeping me engaged in the product. I love the old content and with the PPV being dirt cheap, I'll watch those so I'll continue to watch the weekly TV shows. I wouldn't pay for the PPV at their old cost and then I'd lose interest in the weekly storyline stuff. With NXT and the other events exclusive to the Network...I'd hate to say but I'd probably pay a few bucks more a month if they every raised the price.

Same. Every time I get mad at the current product I also remind myself that the network alone always gives me SOMETHING to grab my attention.
 

M.C.G. 31

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All I watch the network for is the PPVs lol. None of the original content on there or anything except WWE 24. No old programming, etc.

I'm as casual as casual can be lately and the only reason I watch live in the summer is because there's nothing else on (although I PVR Preacher).

Like Meltzer said, they're not in financial trouble but their stock will take some big hits if this is a trend. It's very easy to assume, and probably be correct, that the hardcore fans that would have signed up for the network all did it within the year of its release and now they can't attract new viewers to pay for the network without praying that they can't find the unsubscribe button once they're done their free trial.
 

NewAgeOutlaw

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I think the network could have a slightly bigger subscriber base than it currently does if they handled it differently. They book now seemingly based on the principal that the network is cheap so the monthly "ppv's" don't need to be special. They give away huge matches and pay off angles on tv for no reason.

When they actually build up to a show like mania or ss they get a bump in subscribers, but those people have absolutely no reason to continue their subscription past the end of the free trial. The average Joe isn't going to pay to see extreme rules and battleground, especially when all of the ppv matches will be done again in the next 2 weeks on raw and/or smackdown.
 

Kimi

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That's absurd. I'll bet they don't even use 70% of them regularly.
They do use them. Just take a second to look at the rosters and you'll see that.

200 is probably the absolute minimum for WWE to actually function in the way it currently does. Going below that will really leave them short handed if they had a rash of injuries. We say that the other year.


And it's important to remember that a good chunk of these guys are very cheap. NXT isn't great money, especially for the non-stars on the house shows or new signings. The UK guys are also on very low deals as they are part-time.
 

garnetpalmetto

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Also... they have 196 wrestlers under contract. That's just wrestlers. Not agents, writers, etc.

They have four brands and keep trying to hoard talent so other promotions don't have them.

That's absurd. I'll bet they don't even use 70% of them regularly.

They do use them. Just take a second to look at the rosters and you'll see that.

200 is probably the absolute minimum for WWE to actually function in the way it currently does. Going below that will really leave them short handed if they had a rash of injuries. We say that the other year.


And it's important to remember that a good chunk of these guys are very cheap. NXT isn't great money, especially for the non-stars on the house shows or new signings. The UK guys are also on very low deals as they are part-time.

Exactly - the number seems inflated but you need to account for people signed to developmental contracts, first. Then you have to ask how many of them are signed to things like the Ambassador or Legends program. Does that include the people participated in things like the Mae Young Classic, the Cruiserweight Classic, or the UK Tournament who may not necessarily be under exclusive contract? Does that include part-timers like 'Taker or Lesnar? What about wrestlers who perform more on-screen type duties like Triple H or Daniel Bryan? It can seem like a staggering number, for sure, but there may be a better answer than "they don't use 70% of them"
 

dahrougem2

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That's the thing; if it's just 196 general contracts for Raw/Smackdown/NXT then it's absurd. But if it includes EVERYTHING from legends to ambassadors to tournaments, then it's understandable.
 

M.C.G. 31

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I think the network could have a slightly bigger subscriber base than it currently does if they handled it differently. They book now seemingly based on the principal that the network is cheap so the monthly "ppv's" don't need to be special. They give away huge matches and pay off angles on tv for no reason.

When they actually build up to a show like mania or ss they get a bump in subscribers, but those people have absolutely no reason to continue their subscription past the end of the free trial. The average Joe isn't going to pay to see extreme rules and battleground, especially when all of the ppv matches will be done again in the next 2 weeks on raw and/or smackdown.

It's also easier than ever and continues to get easier to watch these shows for free on your own time. People are willing to spend money on a good product but for the most part over the last decade and a half, it hasn't been a good product.
 

Kimi

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That's the thing; if it's just 196 general contracts for Raw/Smackdown/NXT then it's absurd. But if it includes EVERYTHING from legends to ambassadors to tournaments, then it's understandable.
Go look at the rosters. The ~200 is active wrestlers that do wrestling regularly on WWE shows. (Plus some trainees.)

I think you massively underestimate how many guys it actually takes to put on as many shows as WWE does.
 

dahrougem2

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Go look at the rosters. The ~200 is active wrestlers that do wrestling regularly on WWE shows. (Plus some trainees.)

I think you massively underestimate how many guys it actually takes to put on as many shows as WWE does.

I counted 138 total wrestlers from Raw, Smackdown, 205 Live and NXT (male and female).
 

garnetpalmetto

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Go look at the rosters. The ~200 is active wrestlers that do wrestling regularly on WWE shows. (Plus some trainees.)

I think you massively underestimate how many guys it actually takes to put on as many shows as WWE does.

To get that number I had to include the women wrestling in the Mae Young, the UK guys, and part-timers. The point still stands though - I took a minute and listed each wrestler that appeared on Raw, Smackdown, and 205 Live and got 67. I'm not counting post-show videos where the wrestler was there (like Lana/Tamina's post-Smackdown video) - I probably should - or NXT since that hasn't aired yet and I'm not 100% sure who's on tonight other than Aleister Black, Kyle O'Reilly, Johnny Gargano, and Raul Mendoza.
 

scrubadam

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Wrestling is niche, I think it was a mistake to think they could get 5 Million subscribers to the network. Unless you are a huge fan its not going to draw people in. A big mistake was including the big 4 in there. Should of just turned all PPV's into specials and left the big 4 as PPV's and still charged for those (maybe have a discount if you ordered the network) but that ship has sailed.

Issue is now to many cutbacks. They are cutting a ton from the network (talking smack, E&C show etc...) which means less original content and less reason to subscribe. Look at Netflix, they invested in their content and their subscriber base keeps going up. But for now its about profits so cuts are being made across the board. Its going to hurt WWE in the end though as there is less reason to subscribe outside of a PPV you want to watch.

In the end I think the network serves its purpose though which was to kill any chance of another competitor. When you devalue PPV to 10$ a pop no other company can really rise up to challange you as the only other possible revenue stream is TV. And I don't see another company getting a 150 Million dollar TV deal.
 

Kimi

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I counted 138 total wrestlers from Raw, Smackdown, 205 Live and NXT (male and female).
Then add another 35 NXT guys who do the local house show loops. Plus the handful of UK names they use more than the rest, plus the unassigned signings, plus trainees. You get to about 200 names.
 

Kimi

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And to think WCW was isanely bloated around 1998 and even then I don't think they had 100 wrestlers under contract.
Going by Death of WCW, they had about 160 guys, and that was for far fewer shows than WWE do too.

But WCW's issues were mostly on terrible spending on the wrestlers. They overpaid everyone massively, and never used most guys. Yet they'd still pay to fly everyone in for TV every week. In comparison, Raw and Smackdown use ~45 guys each, and NXT guys really don't make much and all are local.
 

GKJ

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Feb 27, 2002
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There's a ton of guys floating around the PC that are getting paid to train and haven't been seen on TV yet, or have barely been seen. And often, the jobbers are people they're giving tryouts to.
 

M.C.G. 31

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And the PC, for the most part, is such a colassol waste of money for anything other than rehabbing injured guys close to returning. That PC has not developed one homegrown talent at all. The only one is Corbin.
 

garnetpalmetto

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And the PC, for the most part, is such a colassol waste of money for anything other than rehabbing injured guys close to returning. That PC has not developed one homegrown talent at all. The only one is Corbin.

Just to get an idea of your goalposts I'm assuming by "homegrown" you mean somebody who came in without any sort of wrestling background whatsoever and didn't spend a day in FCW before developmental moved from Tampa to Orlando?
 

M.C.G. 31

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Just to get an idea of your goalposts I'm assuming by "homegrown" you mean somebody who came in without any sort of wrestling background whatsoever and didn't spend a day in FCW before developmental moved from Tampa to Orlando?

Sure. I mean, I could be missing someone, but they haven't created any true stars. Not even Corbin is a star and he's not a dude who's ever going to draw money.

The whole proposal of it was an "investment for the future" but the future doesn't look like it's going to make much money without continuing budget cuts.
 

garnetpalmetto

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Sure. I mean, I could be missing someone, but they haven't created any true stars. Not even Corbin is a star and he's not a dude who's ever going to draw money.

The whole proposal of it was an "investment for the future" but the future doesn't look like it's going to make much money without continuing budget cuts.

OK so I'm not going to evaluate "true stars," but in terms of just who's a homegrown talent out of the PC, based on your criteria you can add Alexa Bliss, Dana Brooke, Carmella, Charlotte Flair, Lana, Nia Jax, Mojo Rawley, and Braun Strowman to that list. Out of those I'd consider Bliss, Flair, and Strowman true stars.
 

Kimi

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Sure. I mean, I could be missing someone, but they haven't created any true stars. Not even Corbin is a star and he's not a dude who's ever going to draw money.

The whole proposal of it was an "investment for the future" but the future doesn't look like it's going to make much money without continuing budget cuts.
The thing is that if they make a single Cena once every 10 years then it's probably more than worth it.

The only problem is that those kind of guys are totally random, and not really someone who you can make. You really have to just do mass recruitment and pushing and just hope.
 

scrubadam

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Every wrestling org has their own PC. NJPW has the dojo. WCW had the powerplant. ECW had I think house of hardcore or something. AWA trained their own wrestlers etc...

The PC though is really the first of its kind, and it also helps WWE keep a grip on the wrestling world. Maybe they don't turn gold from scratch but even vets can benefit from the video rooms, training, rings, conferences etc... You can always learn in wrestling. Did they need to build something as big and nice as they did? Maybe not. But this is all HHH doing. What we have seen from HHH as far as PC/NXT I trust that he knows what he is doing and wanting to get the best out of the next generation.

If it was up to Vince I bet he would just cut NXT/PC and save himself the money.
 

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