Proposal: WSH - MTL (Pacioretty)

[Revelation]

What's interesting about it? Burakovsky was often a healthy scratch during the season and playoffs.

Pacioretty would have been as well for us

 

[jfhabs]

Players that this poster evidently believes MaxPac is better than:
Taylor Hall (the reigning Hart Trophy winner)
Brad Marchand
Artemi Panarin
Johnny Gaudreau
Jamie Benn
Filip Forsberg

And that's before we get into LWs who also play RW like Alex Ovechkin, or guys who seem to be staying at LW full time like Claude Giroux, or other guys who aren't obvious stars on their teams but still incredibly awesome like Landeskog or Rakell or Huberdeau.

Massive, massive fail here.

Did I say top 5!?!? top 10? top 15? top 30? Massive fail!?!

 

[Spirit of 67]

What's interesting about it? Burakovsky was often a healthy scratch during the season and playoffs.

And Patches is not wanted on Montreal. A team desperate for offense wants to trade him. That's how good he is.

Is Patches better today? Absolutely.
By "miles?" Based on last season, no.
Are the Caps better off with Burakovsky and the assets this season and going forward? For sure.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Pacioretty would have been as well for us

Ouch.

 

[jfhabs]

You said he is one of the best LW in the game currently. So what is your league-wide ranking for him for LWs currently?

He can bounce back for sure similarly to how Kopitar or Giroux bounced back. But an acquiring team won't be paying prices based on Patches' stats in his younger years when he is coming off injury, is entering a 30 year old season and has been historically underwhelming in the post-season.

He's a year remove from a 35 g season give me a break. He's always been a dominant scorer with average centers. His injury was minor and didn't require surgery.

People are undervaluing him just because they are tired of seeing post on him on HF. He's still a first line LW ffs

 

[Spirit of 67]

Because a players worst season in his career is the best indicator...
What about Kopitar in 16-17!%? What did you say then? Who do you look now?

You said "right now."
The stats suggest you're off by "miles."

 

[strongcomp05]

Pacioretty would have been as well for us

here we go

 

[Spirit of 67]

Did I say top 5!?!? top 10? top 15? top 30? Massive fail!?!

No, you said "best."

I can get the quote for you if you like.

 

[jfhabs]

You said "right now."
The stats suggest you're off by "miles."

No, you just don't know how to use stats properly.
You overvalue a small sample size or you simply base your opinion on the fact this player plays for a team you don't like.

 

[DRW204]

He's a year remove from a 35 g season give me a break. He's always been a dominant scorer with average centers. His injury was minor and didn't require surgery.

People are undervaluing him just because they are tired of seeing post on him on HF. He's still a first line LW ffs

seems like it's not only HF that undervalues him... NHL trade rumors: Canadiens not getting fair value in Max Pacioretty offers, report says | Sporting News

Report: The Montreal Canadiens will not be extending Max Pacioretty

He's a good LWer, just not one of the best in the league currently (which is what top 5? 10? 15?) as you said....

 

[jfhabs]

No, you said "best."

I can get the quote for you if you like.

In the best... please stop trolling
I was refering to the top 30 best LW in the nhl as in first line LW

 

[Spirit of 67]

No, you just don't know how to use stats properly.
You overvalue a small sample size or you simply base your opinion on the fact this player plays for a team you don't like.

I assume this means I can't be objective.
Here's the thing; you can't either because the fact this player plays for a team you love..
If we're gonna use wide brushes to paint, everyone should be using them then.

 

[Revelation]

here we go

Maybe not during the season but in the playoffs you can bet his ass would have been shipped home Kovalev style

 

[sansabri]

Pacioretty would have been as well for us

Lol.

And Patches is not wanted on Montreal. A team desperate for offense wants to trade him. That's how good he is.

Is Patches better today? Absolutely.
By "miles?" Based on last season, no.
Are the Caps better off with Burakovsky and the assets this season and going forward? For sure.

Patches isn't wanted because the team wants to move in a different direction - not because he's terrible on the ice.

Based on last season, yes. Patches is still miles ahead.

 

[jfhabs]

seems like it's not only HF that undervalues him... NHL trade rumors: Canadiens not getting fair value in Max Pacioretty offers, report says | Sporting News

Report: The Montreal Canadiens will not be extending Max Pacioretty

He's a good LWer, just not one of the best in the league currently (which is what top 5? 10? 15?) as you said....

Yes, I saw the article. But, kind of remind me of the Duchene story...
I think he's in the 20-25 range right now. He's better than guys like JVR, Kane, Perron, Neal, Hoffman, Skinner... there are about 15 guys clearly ahead of him like Hall, Ovechkin, Giroux, Gaudreau, Marchand, Panarin, Benn, Landeskog, Huberdeau, Schwartz, Forsberg, Arvidsson, Teravainen, Connor. I think he's somewhere in that group after that. 15-30 debatable, most likely 20-25.

 

[hockeykicker]

Caps laugh and hang up

 

[jfhabs]

I assume this means I can't be objective.
Here's the thing; you can't either because the fact this player plays for a team you love..
If we're gonna use wide brushes to paint, everyone should be using them then.

I guess it was the first reason then, maybe you are just limited in terms of statistical analysis.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

They aren't the same tier player right now... the undervaluing of Pac on this board is insane
Burakovsky isn't even a top 6 W while Pacioretty is in the best LW in the league...

He's a decent top 6 player. He's just not that good. Good shot, good offensive instincts. That's about it.

Not that he's been given much of a hand to work with, but I am not sure he has proven much as a captain, either. He was culprit #1 in forcing MB's hand on a Subban trade.

 

[Brock Radunske]

They aren't the same tier player right now... the undervaluing of Pac on this board is insane
Burakovsky isn't even a top 6 W while Pacioretty is in the best LW in the league...

League or on Montreal?

 

[Spirit of 67]

I guess it was the first reason then, maybe you are just limited in terms of statistical analysis.

Ya, that's probably it. All that hockey watching has screwed me up. I just need to look at the stats.
Will try and do better in the future.

 

[jfhabs]

He's a decent top 6 player. He's just not that good. Good shot, good offensive instincts. That's about it.

Not that he's been given much of a hand to work with, but I am not sure he has proven much as a captain, either. He was culprit #1 in forcing MB's hand on a Subban trade.

I think this is still undervaluing him, but you have a good point. He's not the type of player you want as a captain. He's a pure goal scorer and his shot is not only good, it's definetly elite. How can you say he's just not that good with the amount of goal he's scored and the past years and then admit he did it while having little help...?

I don't think the Subban thing is true... but that's my opinion. I think we can only call this speculation/rumor right now. But, I've seen picture of PK at Max's wedding a year before the trade and there were only a few players from the team which makes me doubt.

 

[BLNY]

He's a decent top 6 player. He's just not that good. Good shot, good offensive instincts. That's about it.

Not that he's been given much of a hand to work with, but I am not sure he has proven much as a captain, either. He was culprit #1 in forcing MB's hand on a Subban trade.

The analytics over the last 5-6 years would argue quite successfully against this. There's been plenty of data thrown around to show he's top notch at more than just scoring goals. To subtly suggest he isn't a top 3 player - first line player - is laughable.

He's a top flight goal scorer and a strong two-way player. Throw out last year. It's a blip.

He's better at receiving passes and shooting than he is setting up his own shot, which only goes to show how much he's done with so little support.

He should never have been named captain imo, but the circumstances in which he was and the constant turmoil around the club has more to do with it imo. Still, he's not a vocal guy and imo strong silent types don't make good captains.

 

[jfhabs]

Ya, that's probably it. All that hockey watching has screwed me up. I just need to look at the stats.
Will try and do better in the future.

Sure because in the leafs vs habs game you most probably watched Pacioretty was awful scoring only 19g in 38 games

 

[jfhabs]

The analytics over the last 5-6 years would argue quite successfully against this. There's been plenty of data thrown around to show he's top notch at more than just scoring goals. To subtly suggest he isn't a top 3 player - first line player - is laughable.

He's a top flight goal scorer and a strong two-way player. Throw out last year. It's a blip.

He's better at receiving passes and shooting than he is setting up his own shot, which only goes to show how much he's done with so little support.

He should never have been named captain imo, but the circumstances in which he was and the constant turmoil around the club has more to do with it imo. Still, he's not a vocal guy and imo strong silent types don't make good captains.

This! I think people are just tired of seeing post about him and are becoming totally nuts haha
Bolded : You can use last year, but please don't ignore the rest of his career... take an average... look at the context, shooting percentage, teamates performance, etc.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Then move on and dont click the posts involving the habs duhhhhh

LOL.
It's the car wreck effect. You don't want to look. You just can't help yourself.
(see; me vs the Tanev to TO threads)