Confirmed Signing with Link: [WSH] Justin Schultz signs with the Capitals (2 years, $4M AAV)

HTFN

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Feb 8, 2009
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Malkin played the entire playoffs with an injured elbow that required surgery.

He has also played the last few years and will play the rest of his hockey career with a bum shoulder, because the surgery will end his career so he will do it after he retires.
That explains a lot. I still stand behind my read, just makes it even easier to explain the 'why'.

It's just... it's a bit like me blaming Gudas or Kempny for the Capitals bowing out while Carlson's playing hurt and getting caved in. They weren't good, but they also weren't the reason the team didn't go anywhere. There were other problems, from hurt key players to bad ones, getting systems on the same page after the layoff, the fact that some of the systems aren't very good anyway....

It's not an either/or thing, and removing them (from a Penguins point of view) is probably-to-definitely addition by subtraction, but even as bad as they are it's really hard to say that they gave a series away.
 

Ridley Simon

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Weren't Murphy and Gonchar a good 14 years apart? And wasn't Larry Murphy pick up in a trade from the North Stars? Not Fat Teddy having a massive fetish from picking up ever ex Pen in the early 00s after those players kicked the piss out of the Caps for years? Not exactly the same thing, and Wasn't Gonchar a free agent signing from Boston to Pittsburgh after the Caps traded him? Thanks for playing you win no prize, don't come back and try again.
Why are you so mad?
 

Roshi

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Feb 7, 2013
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Way too much money and extra year has complications on Ovie/Vrana extensions aswell.

Dont see what GMBM sees, but he is the one managing Caps so lets see it out. Schultz better rebound or this ends up being a huge waste of cap space on a narrowing window.

Nothing on Schultz says to me he was worth more than 1m on this market. Ive been hard on you advanced stat guys, but i need you this time. Please link some weird curves and percentage numbers that can ease my pain on spending 8 freaking millions on Schultz :)

that being said, its just cap space.
 

Snipes45

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I seriously wonder what GM's are thinking in their brain sometimes.

JS's agent - 'What are you prepared to offer us?"

Caps GM - "YES"
 

MarkusNaslund19

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Dec 28, 2005
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Not good. You hope he rebounds, and with a better partner than JJ, but I expect the Caps will buy out that second year. The hope has to be that Fehervary has a strong year and reduces Schultz' minutes, if not playing time, altogether. The recent Achilles injury to Kempny and surgery (out 6-8 months) really looks to have led them to a knee-jerk response. The blueline probably looks like this:

Dillon - Carlson
Orlov - Schultz
Siegenthaler - Jensen
Fehervary

LTIR: Kempny
Jesus, no offense but it's hard to see that as a D that won the cup 2 years ago. What the hell happened?
 

Drake1588

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Jesus, no offense but it's hard to see that as a D that won the cup 2 years ago. What the hell happened?
The team that won the Cup had exceptional injury luck and suffered no blueline injuries to speak of, and was able to trot out this blueline every night in the playoffs:

Kempny-Carlson
Orlov-Niskanen
Djoos-Orpik
  • Niskanen aged out. He was dreadful in 2018-19, rebounded nicely in 2019-20 with a fresh start and superior coaching in Philly, but I suppose the miles were already taking their toll and he's now already decided to retire from the league.
  • Orpik was even older, and he fell off a cliff even faster than Niskanen. He returned for the one year in 2018-19, showed his age in a big way, and he retired last summer.
  • Kempny has battled injury and struggled to find his game again when healthy. Then he suffered a freak Achilles injury this offseason that will see him miss the next 6-8 months. Rotten luck.
  • Djoos fell completely off a cliff, for reasons that aren't entirely clear. He was so good as a rookie in the Cup year, but battled injury and lost his slot in 2018-19. He was relegated to the seventh defenseman for much of that year and saw a trade to Anaheim in early 2019-20. He has improved in Anaheim, lending more credence to the idea that the coaching falloff from Trotz to Reirden hurt the young D in Washington.
Breaking the corps down into thirds, Carlson and Orlov have remained in DC and are generally solid to very good on most nights.

Orpik and Niskanen were major contributors right up to the Cup year, but the miles were already piling up. Both are now retired from the league. Between the two of them, that's a ton of veteran institutional memory they've lost and haven't replaced.

With Kempny and Djoos, it's probably a few things. The coaching downgrade really had an effect here, I think. There is also a case to be made that they got everything they could ever want out of both players in the Cup run. One was a rookie playing a heady third-pairing role, while reclamation project Kempny was holding down a top-pairing role after he came over from Chicago. A certain amount of regression was always likely. The Caps really caught lightning in a bottle with both en route to a Cup win. Injuries to both since June 2018 exacerbated those downward trends.

The corps is in the process of integrating three good prospect defensemen (Siegenthaler, Fehervary, Alexeev), so there are growing pains to expect there, but you would want to be giving them plenty of veterans to serve as mentors and take the pressure off the younger D while they get their feet under them. Where someone like Savard or Brodie would have been ideal, they go out and sign... Schultz to replace Gudas, who himself replaced Orpik. It's hard to see that working out.

Stronger coaching across the board will help next season, but either they get a tremendous rookie campaign from Fehervary, a good sophomore season from Siegenthaler, and a resurgence from Jensen or they will have to consider a mid-season trade.
 
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MarkusNaslund19

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Dec 28, 2005
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The team that won the Cup had exceptional injury luck and suffered no blueline injuries to speak of, and was able to trot out this blueline every night in the playoffs:

Kempny-Carlson
Orlov-Niskanen
Djoos-Orpik
  • Niskanen aged out. He was dreadful in 2018-19, rebounded nicely in 2019-20 with a fresh start and superior coaching in Philly, but I suppose the miles were already taking their toll and he's now already decided to retire from the league.
  • Orpik was even older, and he fell off a cliff even faster than Niskanen. He returned for the one year in 2018-19, showed his age in a big way, and he retired last summer.
  • Kempny has battled injury and struggled to find his game again when healthy. Then he suffered a freak Achilles injury this offseason that will see him miss the next 6-8 months. Rotten luck.
  • Djoos fell completely off a cliff, for reasons that aren't entirely clear. He was so good as a rookie in the Cup year, but battled injury and lost his slot in 2018-19. He was relegated to the seventh defenseman for much of that year and saw a trade to Anaheim in early 2019-20. He has improved in Anaheim, lending more credence to the idea that the coaching falloff from Trotz to Reirden hurt the young D in Washington.
Breaking the corps down into thirds, Carlson and Orlov have remained in DC and are generally solid to very good on most nights.

Orpik and Niskanen were major contributors right up to the Cup year, but the miles were already piling up. Both are now retired from the league. Between the two of them, that's a ton of veteran institutional memory they've lost and haven't replaced.

With Kempny and Djoos, it's probably a few things. The coaching downgrade really had an effect here, I think. There is also a case to be made that they got everything they could ever want out of both players in the Cup run. One was a rookie playing a heady third-pairing role, while reclamation project Kempny was holding down a top-pairing role after he came over from Chicago. A certain amount of regression was always likely. The Caps really caught lightning in a bottle with both en route to a Cup win. Injuries to both since June 2018 exacerbated those downward trends.

The corps is in the process of integrating three good prospect defensemen (Siegenthaler, Fehervary, Alexxev), so there are growing pains to expect there, but you would want to be giving them plenty of veterans to serve as mentors and take the pressure off the younger D while they get their feet under them. Where someone like Savard or Brodie would have been ideal, they go out and sign... Schultz to replace Gudas, who himself replaced Orpik. It's hard to see that working out.

Stronger coaching across the board will help next season, but either they get a tremendous rookie campaign from Fehervary, a good sophomore season from Siegenthaler, and a resurgence from Jensen or they will have to consider a mid-season trade.
Great and informative response. Thanks.
 

Kranix

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Is Schultz worth 4 mill?? He's still riding that college star tag to the bank
 

OtherThingsILike

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4GP, 0G, 1A, 1P, -3 in just over 20:00 ATOI and his head was lodged up his own asshole for most of the series and you're telling me he wasn't? The Penguins looked bad for the most part, nobody individually gave the series away, but if you wanted to start pointing fingers I expect more heavy lifting out of Malkin than I do from Schultz or Johnson. I'm not going to be too hard on him because it's bubble hockey after a weird layoff, other good players didn't look right, but that's where my eyes were during those games.

I'm not happy with Schultz coming to Washington but that's a guy doing about what you expected him to do (also after a layoff). Schultz and Johnson aren't your go-to guys to break the shutout in Game 4, and ideally the team would average more than 2 goals per game before I start looking at my third(?) pair and blaming them for dropping the series.
Sure, I can give you that the entire team played poorly. Even if the third pairing defensemen had been better, we'd have still lost the series. It wouldn't be fair to say that the third pairing defensemen are the reason why we lost the series. Nonetheless, on a team where everyone was bad, Schultz stood out in a negative way.
 

chethejet

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Feb 4, 2012
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We all knew that injury was costly and it was just how much he lost in physical play. Not sure if he can eventually recover to his 2017 form but still that is a big number to sign him. I agree he was more of a 1 million type add than that.
 

mazmin

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Ok... so a 1yr $2M seems fair based on his history of being able to run a PP. Nice insurance piece if JC gets hurt.... but $4AAV over two? NO!

I think his agent should get the 2021 Masterton trophy for Perseverance and Dedication towards milking every possible penny out of the Caps.

On a serious note, deals like these taint the whole FA market. Taboo!
 

caps4cup

Dynasty
Dec 31, 2010
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Contracts like this make me think that professional "scouts" don't actually scout anything. It's a guessing game to them.

Schultz brings NOTHING positive. Literally zero. He's a shadow of what he was in 2017.

As a Pens fan I LOVE that he signed in DC.
Schultz had a 54.43 xGF% last year when paired with a top 4 caliber defensemen at 5v5 (Pettersson, Dumoulin, Letang). His point totals still weren’t there but his analytics were pretty good when he was with anyone besides Jack Johnson. Maybe professional “scouts” can see that he still has upside when not paired with the worst defensemen in the league?
 

caps4cup

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Dec 31, 2010
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Way too much money and extra year has complications on Ovie/Vrana extensions aswell.

Dont see what GMBM sees, but he is the one managing Caps so lets see it out. Schultz better rebound or this ends up being a huge waste of cap space on a narrowing window.

Nothing on Schultz says to me he was worth more than 1m on this market. Ive been hard on you advanced stat guys, but i need you this time. Please link some weird curves and percentage numbers that can ease my pain on spending 8 freaking millions on Schultz :)

that being said, its just cap space.
xGF% at 5v5
15/16 (PIT) - 59.48 -1.35 rel
16/17 - 55.93 +4.64 rel
17/18 - 52.78 -1.05 rel
18/19 - 44.95 -12.45 rel
19/20 - 52.39 +1.1 rel (away from Johnson)

He was awful in 18/19 but his analytics actually were pretty good last year away from Jack Johnson, in line or even better (relative wise) than his other years with Pittsburgh. Obviously his point totals weren’t there which is cause for concern and you would hope they bounce back to the 30-40 range, but his underlying numbers are generally pretty good compared to his past.

The dollar amount still seems high considering his point totals and I don’t like paying someone in hopes they bounce back rather than their recent performance, but he seems like a pretty good candidate to bounce back next season away from Jack Johnson and in a Laviolette system that relies on active and puck moving defensemen.
 

ziggyjoe212

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Oct 2, 2017
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Schultz had a 54.43 xGF% last year when paired with a top 4 caliber defensemen at 5v5 (Pettersson, Dumoulin, Letang). His point totals still weren’t there but his analytics were pretty good when he was with anyone besides Jack Johnson. Maybe professional “scouts” can see that he still has upside when not paired with the worst defensemen in the league?
I guess it's possible that playing with JJ made him look bad. But he looked just as bad as JJ when you watch them on TV. Plus he's one of the most injury prone players on the team. Which is saying something since the pens tend to lead the league in injuries every year.
 
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Big McLargehuge

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Is Schultz worth 4 mill?? He's still riding that college star tag to the bank

Absolutely not, but he's a RHD who can move the puck (at least according to the fancy stats) meaning that he was going to be signed by someone on the first day of free agency for more than he's worth.

Odds are this is bad for Washington. Schultz failed the eye test even when away from Johnson, but there's no denying that being paired with Johnson was the worst-case scenario for Schultz as it required him to do way too much defensively and, I mean...it's Justin Schultz. Even when the Penguins 'fixed' him the defensive side of his game could most flatteringly be called positionally sound. Suffer a broken leg and lose a bit of that mobility and suddenly the positioning can be taken advantage of. Lose strength off of your shot and the goals dry up (between regular season and playoffs Schultz had 16 goals across 99 games in 16-17 and a mere 9 goals in the 3 regular seasons since (138 gp) without much of a drop in shooting attempts.

He does have an outlet pass, which guaranteed him being overpaid, but for a guy with an offensive defenseman skillset he's no longer an asset in the offensive zone and he's never been an asset in the defensive zone.

I wish Schultz well and thank him for the role he played for us in those Cup runs, but I certainly had no interest in bringing him back for even half this amount considering him being serviceable is dependent on who he's paired with. Caps fans don't have to worry about him getting thrown out there with the worst possible defensive partner in the league though, so that'll help.
 

Captain Hook

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Jul 12, 2007
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Schultz was surprisingly good in the first Cup run and had a big season when they won the 2nd Cup. He really seems to have regressed since though. Maybe a change of scenery and a better D partner will get him on track. It's also possible that he's just damaged goods though. He just hasn't looked the same the last couple seasons, especially since the broken leg.
 

Drake1588

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Trevor van Riemsdyk joining the Caps at $800K sure makes this mistake look a lot more palatable. Schultz at $4M x 2 is still a terrible signing, but adding TVR today should help them insulate the defense corps if it turns out that Schultz is as poor as observers of his game last year fear, at least.

They should now have ample veteran coverage to shield the young prospect D now.

Dillon-Carlson
Orlov-Schultz
TVR - Jensen
Bench: Siegenthaler, Fehervary, TVR
 
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