Confirmed Signing with Link: [WSH] Capitals sign Brooks Orpik [1 year- 1 million]

[Scott Stevens]

Is Orpik still going to wear an A for Washington despite being traded away? I mean he never missed one game or practice with the Caps, but it’s just kinda an odd thing how this worked.

 

[bigd]

Is Orpik still going to wear an A for Washington despite being traded away? I mean he never missed one game or practice with the Caps, but it’s just kinda an odd thing how this worked.

I don't see why he wouldn't wear an A again.

 

[Scott Stevens]

I don't see why he wouldn't wear an A again.

Neither do I, really, just except for that oddless of him on paper being on another team in between seasons. I’m obviously overthinking this.

 

[Revelation]

Neither do I, really, just except for that oddless of him on paper being on another team in between seasons. I’m obviously overthinking this.

I could see them giving it to someone younger as a changing of the guard thing, but the biggest reason he was brought in was for locker room leadership so it would be completely justified.

 

[Price is Wright]

I'm having a tough time understanding the problem here.

Just so we are clear, do the people who have an issue with this also have an issue with Tomas Plekanec returning to the Canadiens after being traded at the deadline?

Is the issue that Orpik knew he could come back to Washington if bought out? Man, I don't get the whine here.

 

[Scott Stevens]

I could see them giving it to someone younger as a changing of the guard thing, but the biggest reason he was brought in was for locker room leadership so it would be completely justified.

Im glad they got him back. He was an important contributor to the Cup and I’d love to see them repeat while the Canucks are still a generation away from relevance.

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

because I'm really biased against the Caps and i wanted them to keep Orpik at his awful cap hit instead of a very manageable one lol

I appreciate the candor.

 

[SDBondra]

Orpik isn't a bad choice for A but given the big dumptruck of cash that just got backed up to Carlson's house I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it instead.

 

[kogeh]

Orpik isn't a bad choice for A but given the big dumptruck of cash that just got backed up to Carlson's house I wouldn't be surprised if he gets it instead.

next in line after orpik is osh babe

 

[Lahey]

Coming from someone as acerbic as you, thats funny. Stop being a ****ing hypocrite. You rail against someone because you think they shouldnt rail at someone else? Get over yourself.

Rutherford won GM of the year for manning a cup winning program. Many GM's do. GMBM didnt get notice due to the fact that the Caps came outta nowhere (for the hockey community) to win the Cup.

So he keeps the same team together....one which he has built (the claims that McPhee built it are hogwash...his last team didnt even make the playoffs)....and one that now has 2 Presidents Cups and a Stanley Cup in 3 consecutive years. Which he should have been rewarded for last year. If the team excels again, he will get rewarded this year.

"i didn't even mention the leafs". Please. Guaranteed you were thinking "But, DUBAS!!!" with your laughing. You are just PO'd because I called you out on it, hence these vitriolic posts. Claim whatever you want, we both know it.

So much wrong with your posts. Not even gonna bother because you’re not worth my time. You can’t even put a cohesive argument together considering your main argument is something I DIDNT EVEN SAY. Take you’re trolling elsewhere.

Also your main argument is trading a backup for a second and keeping the same team? Not gm of the year material sorry.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

You’re just rambling at this point.

There’s nothing illegal about what happened.
Even if 30 teams offered Orpik a 5M dollar deal, and he refused them all, it’s still not illegal.

Show me the rule that says a team can’t re-sign a player who was bought out from someone else.
I’ll wait.

And Tkachuk? Excellent example. Did the CBA prohibit this in the future negotiations? I guess not since players are still allowed to do this.

Btw, who’s talking about this Orpik situation? I don’t see or hear anything? All I see are people in this thread with a terrible grasp of the CBA talking about it.

there are two rules being broken

number 1... you cant make any arrangements with players that are property of another team. this is called tampering and this means...

if theres an agreement to trade a player to another team... then arrange for him to be bought out... and then bring him back so he gets to 'come home' that's illegal. its very hard to prove but its illegle and there are many examples in the past where teams have been punished for entering into talks with/or about players that belong to another organization

rule number 2... this one imo is much more serious. it is forbidden to renegotiate contacts. this means even if a player agreed to have his contract renegotiated, its not allowed. whatever deal the player/team origionally agrees to must be honored for its full term.

clearly this deal beween Washington and orpik was renegotiated. I say clearly because that's what I believe. I think this is what must be investigated. I think if the player turned down better contract offers from other teams... it shows that he expected an offer from Washington. if there was any knowledge on his part that Washington was going to bring him back... then clearly this was a deliberate attempt to renegotiate the cap hit. it was clearly a renegotiation of a contract

im sorry you fans of the team find this distasteful to admit that your team cheated... but it did

now comes the question... will they be punished? obviously a couple other teams have cheated and got away with it. I personally have no power to punish anyhow. but bettman does.

I will watch with interest what happens next. in the meantime if a tree falls in the forest it really doesn't matter who is around to hear it. the tree fell. simple as that. this deal was against league rules. simple as that imo

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I'm having a tough time understanding the problem here.

Just so we are clear, do the people who have an issue with this also have an issue with Tomas Plekanec returning to the Canadiens after being traded at the deadline?

Is the issue that Orpik knew he could come back to Washington if bought out? Man, I don't get the whine here.

if plekanec was someone everyone wanted... yes there would be some problems with him going back. the question would arise was their tampering?

keith tkchuk was the first guy I remember this being a problem. when he was traded from atlanta and then went back... he was a very good player that everyone wanted. and yes, there was a problem

now days theres been a few guys that have gone back after a trade and most of them no one cares about. I think the general concensus is these players go back because that's where their home/family is. I think when they were traded it was because they were spare parts. I don't think anyone feels there was an unfair advantage when these guys got traded or when they returned home

that's what it all comes down to... is there an unfair advantage?

im not sure there is an unfair advantage with brooks orpik. if hes someone no body wanted... then theres really no harm/no foul.

as his supporters point out he did go through waivers. so we know that no one wanted him at the higher cap hit.

the real question is... did anyone want him at a million dollars besides the capitals?

if the capitals offer was the only offer... then theres no problems

this is where the investigation needs to focus.

did any other teams try to sign orpik as an ufa?

if the answer is yes... we need to then dig deeper. hes not forced to take offers he doesn't want to take. but hes not allowed to know there will be an offer from the capitals.

if he turned down offers because he had knowledge that there would be an offer coming from Washington... that's where tampering happens. if Washington knew that Colorado would buy him back and that he would agree to return to the capitals at a reduced cap hit... that's where cap circumvention happens

we don't have proof right now that anything illegle has happened. it just stinks bad. there needs to be an investigation and if there was bad faith here then there needs to be punishment

 

[EdAVSfan]

there are two rules being broken

number 1... you cant make any arrangements with players that are property of another team. this is called tampering and this means...

if theres an agreement to trade a player to another team... then arrange for him to be bought out... and then bring him back so he gets to 'come home' that's illegal. its very hard to prove but its illegle and there are many examples in the past where teams have been punished for entering into talks with/or about players that belong to another organization

rule number 2... this one imo is much more serious. it is forbidden to renegotiate contacts. this means even if a player agreed to have his contract renegotiated, its not allowed. whatever deal the player/team origionally agrees to must be honored for its full term.

clearly this deal beween Washington and orpik was renegotiated. I say clearly because that's what I believe. I think this is what must be investigated. I think if the player turned down better contract offers from other teams... it shows that he expected an offer from Washington. if there was any knowledge on his part that Washington was going to bring him back... then clearly this was a deliberate attempt to renegotiate the cap hit. it was clearly a renegotiation of a contract

im sorry you fans of the team find this distasteful to admit that your team cheated... but it did

now comes the question... will they be punished? obviously a couple other teams have cheated and got away with it. I personally have no power to punish anyhow. but bettman does.

I will watch with interest what happens next. in the meantime if a tree falls in the forest it really doesn't matter who is around to hear it. the tree fell. simple as that. this deal was against league rules. simple as that imo

I honestly feel like you’re making it up as you go along.

So let’s go to number 1:
“You can’t make arrangements with players that are property of another team”
Let me get this straight. The Avs, owned Orpik for a grand total of 3 days. 3 days total between the trade and the buy-out. Are you suggesting the capitals made arrangements with Orpik during those 3 days? You can’t honestly believe that. And if he arranged prior to the trade, well then he did nothing wrong. He made arrangements with his own team.

And number 2:
I’m not sure you understand the term re-negotiate. In order to re-negotiate a contract, there needs to be one in force. Orpik, didn’t have one when he re-signed with Capitals.

And who cares if he turned down better offers. ITS HIS RIGHT as a free agent. Colorado made him a free agent. Not Washington. Colorado.

I’ll sit by idly while we await the opening of the investigation into this treacherous, most deceitful series of moves whereby the entire NHL were offered Orpik for free and they all declined.

Ill still wait to see which rule was broken as I’ve pretty clearly shown that neither of the 2 you suggested were broken.

 

[EdAVSfan]

if plekanec was someone everyone wanted... yes there would be some problems with him going back. the question would arise was their tampering?

keith tkchuk was the first guy I remember this being a problem. when he was traded from atlanta and then went back... he was a very good player that everyone wanted. and yes, there was a problem

now days theres been a few guys that have gone back after a trade and most of them no one cares about. I think the general concensus is these players go back because that's where their home/family is. I think when they were traded it was because they were spare parts. I don't think anyone feels there was an unfair advantage when these guys got traded or when they returned home

that's what it all comes down to... is there an unfair advantage?

im not sure there is an unfair advantage with brooks orpik. if hes someone no body wanted... then theres really no harm/no foul.

as his supporters point out he did go through waivers. so we know that no one wanted him at the higher cap hit.

the real question is... did anyone want him at a million dollars besides the capitals?

if the capitals offer was the only offer... then theres no problems

this is where the investigation needs to focus.

did any other teams try to sign orpik as an ufa?

if the answer is yes... we need to then dig deeper. hes not forced to take offers he doesn't want to take. but hes not allowed to know there will be an offer from the capitals.

if he turned down offers because he had knowledge that there would be an offer coming from Washington... that's where tampering happens. if Washington knew that Colorado would buy him back and that he would agree to return to the capitals at a reduced cap hit... that's where cap circumvention happens

we don't have proof right now that anything illegle has happened. it just stinks bad. there needs to be an investigation and if there was bad faith here then there needs to be punishment

“But he’s not allowed to know there will be an offer from the capitals”

Where do you get this crap from?
Of course he’s allowed to know. He’s. A. Free. Agent. There is absolutely NOTHING in the rule that prohibits the caps from saying to Orpik before the trade, “We’re willing to bring you back if you become a free agent again”

 

[shtorm2005]

number 1... you cant make any arrangements with players that are property of another team. this is called tampering and this means...

Are u sure? Maybe other team can give a permission to do that?

 

[Ridley Simon]

So much wrong with your posts. Not even gonna bother because you’re not worth my time. You can’t even put a cohesive argument together considering your main argument is something I DIDNT EVEN SAY. Take you’re trolling elsewhere.

Also your main argument is trading a backup for a second and keeping the same team? Not gm of the year material sorry.

I love it when people say this...and then they go ahead and do it anyway.

We will see who gets GM of the year. We can leave it at that.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Are u sure? Maybe other team can give a permission to do that?

yes there are provisions that allow a team to waive its exclusivity to a player under its control.

this is all a very gray area and one that professional sports leagues need to vigorously defend. if they lower their guard then all sorts of problems will arise.

there are situations like basketball where a levar james might plan to go to a city like los angeles while still playing for cleaveland. and maybe he calls up a couple friends in other places and says... don't sign. join me in LA... and you see where the problem quickly becomes HUGE

now imagine its an owner doing it instead of a player. imagine some owner in say new York telling everyone he will arrange endorsement deals for connor McDavid and Austin Matthews once their current deals expire and they come to new York in 7 years or whatever. he promises he will sign them and then other guys who want to play on a super team are welcome to join and be part of it.

if there wasn't rules against tampering... this could easily happen and it would kill the sport

what you are asking is more like... I will give you an example. when tim Thomas was entering his last year in boston, the team knew it was going to play tuuka rask. they didn't really want to insult tim Thomas by forcing him to be a backup. they told his agent to look around for a potential trade. out of respect to the player, they said go ahead and talk to other teams about a possible landing spot.

I think montreal recently did the same sort of thing with pacioretti. they told him he could talk contract extension with LA because it would make a trade easier if there was a new contract in place.

so there are certain times that a team that holds the rights to a player can waive its priveledge. but rules govering ufa negotiations are pretty clear.

Washington signed orpik as an ufa. if they were in negotiations with him before he became an ufa then the problem im talking about has occurred. the tampering already happened

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

“But he’s not allowed to know there will be an offer from the capitals”

Where do you get this crap from?
Of course he’s allowed to know. He’s. A. Free. Agent. There is absolutely NOTHING in the rule that prohibits the caps from saying to Orpik before the trade, “We’re willing to bring you back if you become a free agent again”

actually there kind of is. that's exactly the gray area that leagues must prevent happening

ill give you an example.

team A has john tavarasn a pending ufa at the deadline and is going to miss the playoffs. {in this case we will assume john tavaras is wanting to return to team A}

now team A says... listen john. you want to be on a winner. heres what we will do. lets trade you to team B for a huge package of assets. you can stay with them for their playoff run then become an ufa. don't worry, we will give you a great offer to come back next season after you are an ufa. now our team will be much better and we can win some cups for you.

so mr Tavares tells the new team... sure I might sign an extension. lets talk about it in the off season. so team B on good faith makes the trade

but clearly theres been tampering here. team A and john Tavares have a pre-arranged agreement for Tavares to return. the trade was conducted under bad faith. team A has used propriotory knowledge to make an illegle agreement with a player that was going to become property of team B

this is why the league must act with the hand of god against any team that even begins to toy with this type of behavior. there can never be any chance that this type of agreement would be allowed to go unpunished

 

[Price is Wright]

if plekanec was someone everyone wanted... yes there would be some problems with him going back. the question would arise was their tampering?

keith tkchuk was the first guy I remember this being a problem. when he was traded from atlanta and then went back... he was a very good player that everyone wanted. and yes, there was a problem

There was no problem. Same with Doug Weight. It was a non story in a day.

If Connor McDavid was going to become a UFA and Edmonton traded him at the deadline, only for him to go back to Edmonton in the summer, there is 100% nothing wrong with that. That's why we use the term RENTAL when it comes to trading players with only one year left. You are not investing in them. You have a finite amount of time with them unless you re-sign them. There is absolutely nothing wrong and it only smells to you.

Seriously, a player can sign to a team and be traded every single year and sign back with that team and there is nothing wrong.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I honestly feel like you’re making it up as you go along.

So let’s go to number 1:
“You can’t make arrangements with players that are property of another team”
Let me get this straight. The Avs, owned Orpik for a grand total of 3 days. 3 days total between the trade and the buy-out. Are you suggesting the capitals made arrangements with Orpik during those 3 days? You can’t honestly believe that. And if he arranged prior to the trade, well then he did nothing wrong. He made arrangements with his own team.

And number 2:
I’m not sure you understand the term re-negotiate. In order to re-negotiate a contract, there needs to be one in force. Orpik, didn’t have one when he re-signed with Capitals.

And who cares if he turned down better offers. ITS HIS RIGHT as a free agent. Colorado made him a free agent. Not Washington. Colorado.

I’ll sit by idly while we await the opening of the investigation into this treacherous, most deceitful series of moves whereby the entire NHL were offered Orpik for free and they all declined.

Ill still wait to see which rule was broken as I’ve pretty clearly shown that neither of the 2 you suggested were broken.

your so oblivious that I feel its a waste of time to try to explain to you where you are oblious.

it would be like telling you to watch your step because an obstacle is on the ground in front of you and you telling me im an idiot because the sky is clear of any clouds today

ultimately theres no need at all for you to have any sort of understanding on this matter so I wont lose sleep over your ignorance. if you do want to be able to get a better understanding, ive already explained it in depth. maybe re-reading my posts a few times and getting someone to help you with the bigger words might be useful?

if not... that's ok. the nhl has a lot of legal experts working for it that will ultimately deal with this matter. you and I can go back to talking about trade rumors and other matters that would be more fun and easier for us to understand I think

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

There was no problem. Same with Doug Weight. It was a non story in a day.

If Connor McDavid was going to become a UFA and Edmonton traded him at the deadline, only for him to go back to Edmonton in the summer, there is 100% nothing wrong with that. That's why we use the term RENTAL when it comes to trading players with only one year left. You are not investing in them. You have a finite amount of time with them unless you re-sign them. There is absolutely nothing wrong and it only smells to you.

Seriously, a player can sign to a team and be traded every single year and sign back with that team and there is nothing wrong.

its only wrong if theres a pre-existing agreement that the player is going to go back

this is why the nhl made it illegle for players to be named later to be part of trades.

any agreements that involve players that belong to another organization have to be illegle in a league like the nhl. obviously some of you don't have enough grasp about these things for me to explain it. that's ok

ive probably made my best attempt by now and theres nothing to be gained by making another attempt. if you are ignorant it wont matter. it wont even matter if im ignorant.

nhl lawyers and the nhl front office will examin this situation and if there was tampering im sure they will make an example of it

 

[Silky mitts]

actually there kind of is. that's exactly the gray area that leagues must prevent happening

ill give you an example.

team A has john tavarasn a pending ufa at the deadline and is going to miss the playoffs. {in this case we will assume john tavaras is wanting to return to team A}

now team A says... listen john. you want to be on a winner. heres what we will do. lets trade you to team B for a huge package of assets. you can stay with them for their playoff run then become an ufa. don't worry, we will give you a great offer to come back next season after you are an ufa. now our team will be much better and we can win some cups for you.

so mr Tavares tells the new team... sure I might sign an extension. lets talk about it in the off season. so team B on good faith makes the trade

but clearly theres been tampering here. team A and john Tavares have a pre-arranged agreement for Tavares to return. the trade was conducted under bad faith. team A has used propriotory knowledge to make an illegle agreement with a player that was going to become property of team B

this is why the league must act with the hand of god against any team that even begins to toy with this type of behavior. there can never be any chance that this type of agreement would be allowed to go unpunished

Where do you draw the line in those discussions? Once they've completed the trade would Snow be able to tell Tavares he was traded or can he not talk to him at all? If you break the trade to him are you allowed to say "We would have liked to keep you" or is that laying out your offseason plans? Are you allowed to say "We would have liked to have kept you and we'll see how the offseason works out" or is that being too transparent? Or does it not really matter because there has been a year of talking contract between the team and the agent so Tavares has a good idea of what the Islanders would offer in free agency.

 

[Price is Wright]

its only wrong if theres a pre-existing agreement that the player is going to go back

So where's the proof? There is none. Only speculation.

nhl lawyers and the nhl front office will examin this situation and if there was tampering im sure they will make an example of it

Do you know if the NHL lawyers are looking at it? Looks to me like nobody cares except you.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

So where's the proof? There is none. Only speculation.



Do you know if the NHL lawyers are looking at it? Looks to me like nobody cares except you.

they look at most things... that's their job. whether they care or not... I have no way of knowing

 

[sheriff bart]

Pretty nice cap circumvention

That's exactly how I read it.