Proposal: WPG CGY

[StatisticsAddict99]

3 times worth shows your clueless. I reserve judgement on whatever happens either way, glad the jury virdict is in and she is 100% guilty. A restraining order says nothing, says the who knows how many guys that had restraining orders put on them and were later found innocent.

Vesalainen is in his D+1 and has nearly a PPG in FEL, that should translate to a 60pt(for example out of the only 6 Forwards in FEL history to score 40pts+ as a U19 Player, only 1 single Forward has ever not scored 60pts in the NHL), That’s a safer bet and higher talent than Andersson and I always take qaulity over quantity.

 

[lucaseider]

Vesalainen is in his D+1 and has nearly a PPG in FEL, that should translate to a 60pt(for example out of the only 6 Forwards in FEL history to score 40pts+ as a U19 Player, only 1 single Forward has ever not scored 60pts in the NHL), That’s a safer bet and higher talent than Andersson and I always take qaulity over quantity.

And rasmus put up 39 points in 56 games as a 21 year old on a garbage ahl team, all star at 21 as a defenseman while playing very solid defense. But I guess Vesalainen is worth 3 times that, what a joke, no biased here!

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

So ....... will he be the 6th or the 7th top4 D man for the Flames?

Seriously, what is Calgary going to do with all the D? Already a loaded top 4 with Valimaki, Fox, Kylington and Andersson in the system.

Flames don't need Andersson. They need RW's. And a goalie.

They need RHS RWers especially since they will need Andersson eventually if Fox doesn't sign and Stone continues to be useless.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

And rasmus put up 39 points in 56 games as a 21 year old on a garbage ahl team, all star at 21 as a defenseman while playing very solid defense. But I guess Vesalainen is worth 3 times that, what a joke, no biased here!

Again he’s two years older also Vesalainen put up his points on a rather bad team as well... Vesalainen’s totals are much more impressive and to add to that his totals are coming at a younger age in a harder league to score. Qaulity > Qauntity my friend.

 

[Lunatik]

Again he’s two years older also Vesalainen put up his points on a rather bad team as well... Vesalainen’s totals are much more impressive and to add to that his totals are coming at a younger age in a harder league to score. Qaulity > Qauntity my friend.

How is it much more impressive? Andersson wasn't eligible to play in the AHL two years ago. He finished 7th in scoring among defensemen in a league dominated by older players. There is only 1 defenseman that isn't at least 23 that outscored him. I'm not going to argue Vesalainen hasn't been impressive, but to claim one is more impressive than the other is pretty damn ridiculous.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

How is it much more impressive? Andersson wasn't eligible to play in the AHL two years ago. He finished 7th in scoring among defensemen in a league dominated by older players. There is only 1 defenseman that isn't at least 23 that outscored him. I'm not going to argue Vesalainen hasn't been impressive, but to claim one is more impressive than the other is pretty damn ridiculous.

Look at NHLe or just look at the history between the leagues, Liiga is harder to score in(I believe only one player had over a point per game this season and that was by a single point where as many players in the AHL did), Vesalainen is two years younger and scored the 4th highest amount of points and 2nd amount of goals as a U19 player in Liiga history I can guarantee that’s much, much, much more impressive. Anyways even if you don’t agree whatever the Jets have that 1 guy that outscored and outplayed Anderson in the AHL and he’s better as well.

 

[Lunatik]

Look at NHLe or just look at the history between the leagues, Liiga is harder to score in(I believe only one player had over a point per game this season and that was by a single point where as many players in the AHL did), Vesalainen is two years younger and scored the 4th highest amount of points and 2nd amount of goals as a U19 player in Liiga history I can guarantee that’s much, much, much more impressive. Anyways even if you don’t agree whatever the Jets have that 1 guy that outscored and outplayed Anderson in the AHL and he’s better as well.

NHLe is a f***ing joke, at best it's the average and IIRC it hasn't been updated in several years. You are also comparing offense from a defenseman to that of a forward. Not that I am surprised coming from you. Yeah, you did have a defenseman outscire him, but outscoring =/= better. But again, coming from you, not shocked.

 

[Skobel24]

Remove petan and add something else. We have enough fringe bottom 6 players.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They need RHS RWers especially since they will need Andersson eventually if Fox doesn't sign and Stone continues to be useless.

Yes, if things go wrong they might need Andersson. Meanwhile the Flames are overloaded on D and short elsewhere, particularly RW.

For the past few years they have devoted resources to overbuilding their D. They have no picks in the first 3 rds of this draft but they have D coming out their ears. They look to this outsider like they need to convert some of their D assets to fill holes elsewhere. JMO

I see good trade partners here. The Jets need some D prospects and Flames need wingers, which Jets have plenty of.

 

[scarbrow21]

Flames and Jets really are primed to become trade partners as the position both teams are flush at is the position the other needs. Flames likely move one of Kylington, Fox, or Andersson and depending on which one will determine the value coming back.

 

[Potty John]

So ....... will he be the 6th or the 7th top4 D man for the Flames?

Seriously, what is Calgary going to do with all the D? Already a loaded top 4 with Valimaki, Fox, Kylington and Andersson in the system.

Flames don't need Andersson. They need RW's. And a goalie.

You may have missed the obvious “future top 4 d man”. Cause Hamilton could possibly be dealt, and if not Hamonic will be let go or traded by the time Rasmus and Fox are both ready.

 

[scarbrow21]

Another idea is what about:

Adam Fox (ELC rights as he's unsigned) for Armia + "X" where "X" is one of Petan/Lemieux/Dano/ or another player from an acquisition such as Duclair via a CHI-WPG trade

 

[kittiecarlyle]

Petan shoots left but plays a 3 forward positions. TSN has him listed as RW while Capfriendly & SN have him as LW/RW. Good versatile player but a victim of the Jets being over loaded @ forward. I personally like him but do prefer the players waiting to take his spot. It's the #s game but in this case so many good young forwards but not enough spots for all.
But he's not the key piece. That would be Armia who IMO the Jets prefer to re-sign.

It is a real stretch to think he is a c at the next level.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Another idea is what about:

Adam Fox (ELC rights as he's unsigned) for Armia + "X" where "X" is one of Petan/Lemieux/Dano/ or another player from an acquisition such as Duclair via a CHI-WPG trade

Full warning you aren't gonna like the conversation to come. Some Flames fans think Fox is a stud in the making and are pretty overzealous whenever his name gets mentioned. I apologize in advance.

 

[Hunter368]

Full warning you aren't gonna like the conversation to come. Some Flames fans think Fox is a stud in the making and are pretty overzealous whenever his name gets mentioned. I apologize in advance.

All fans tend to do that with certain prospects or players, over valuing them compared to another persons pov or opinion. Pretty standard

 

[blankall]

I'd pass on this. If Andersson is being moved it needs to be for one big piece and not two lesser ones. Andersson's potential is huge right now, and the Flames have spent a long time developing him. Moving him for role players would be very short sighted.

 

[Flyerfan52]

From the Jets perspective on that one yes, I wouldn’t do that, Troubas well worth more value than that alone and add the fact it would be pretty gross having to debate which half of Scheifeles body we keep and get rid off and send to the Flames.

LOL.
There's also the problem of how the Flames clone Rasmus Andersson.
But if they can why stop @ 3? Go for 6 & trade a few just to add a different feel to some pairs.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

NHLe is a ****ing joke, at best it's the average and IIRC it hasn't been updated in several years. You are also comparing offense from a defenseman to that of a forward. Not that I am surprised coming from you. Yeah, you did have a defenseman outscire him, but outscoring =/= better. But again, coming from you, not shocked.

Okay than, look back at the scoring rates and the difficulty. AHL scoring is much easier than Liiga scoring regardless of position. And again you jumped over the age gap, that’s allot of value right there. All in all I know you don’t like me but facts are facts it doesn’t matter who they are coming from and I’m not surprised your denying them by your record either.

 

[StatisticsAddict99]

LOL.
There's also the problem of how the Flames clone Rasmus Andersson.
But if they can why stop @ 3? Go for 6 & trade a few just to add a different feel to some pairs.

We have to assume Cloning machines max out at 3 in this hypothetical universe.

 

[TS Quint]

I find the valuations on Andersson interesting on this thread. Flames fans seem to be all over the place on him.

I’m kind of getting that the expectation is that he will be a 2nd pair. If he hits the top of his potential he is a top pair (#2) and a disappointment if he ends up a bottom pair. Sound about right?

 

[Flyerfan52]

I find the valuations on Andersson interesting on this thread. Flames fans seem to be all over the place on him.

I’m kind of getting that the expectation is that he will be a 2nd pair. If he hits the top of his potential he is a top pair (#2) and a disappointment if he ends up a bottom pair. Sound about right?

I personally see him as a probable 2nd pair but you are right about Flames fans being all over the map on the D prospects.
Some like Andersson, some prefer Vilimaki (my choice as future 1st pairing) & others hold onto the hope that the still unsigned Fox is the pick of the litter.
Not long ago it was Kulak, Kylington & Wotherspoon who are now regulars as throw ins in proposals.

Given the Flames needs Armia (who I hope the Jets keep) & Petan for Andersson seems fair (maybe throw in a 2018 3rd from the Jets).

 

[Double Dion]

No interest in moving a quarter for two dimes. Bad in terms of value for us. Vesalainen is who I'd want for Andersson.

 

[TS Quint]

No interest in moving a quarter for two dimes. Bad in terms of value for us. Vesalainen is who I'd want for Andersson.

You are definitely on the high end for expectations for Andersson.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I find the valuations on Andersson interesting on this thread. Flames fans seem to be all over the place on him.

I’m kind of getting that the expectation is that he will be a 2nd pair. If he hits the top of his potential he is a top pair (#2) and a disappointment if he ends up a bottom pair. Sound about right?

Basically how I see him yes. This is a player with a lot of tools, great offensive instincts, very agile for his size, heavy and accurate shot, cerebral defender with an active stick but not afraid to overpower guys down low. The main things I would say he has to work on is his decision making with the puck and bringing more assertiveness to his defensive game. Two things that often get better with experience. Been personally high on him for quite a while, but I would agree his ceiling is more of a #2 than a #1.

I personally see him as a probable 2nd pair but you are right about Flames fans being all over the map on the D prospects.
Some like Andersson, some prefer Vilimaki (my choice as future 1st pairing) & others hold onto the hope that the still unsigned Fox is the pick of the litter.
Not long ago it was Kulak, Kylington & Wotherspoon who are now regulars as throw ins in proposals.

Given the Flames needs Armia (who I hope the Jets keep) & Petan for Andersson seems fair (maybe throw in a 2018 3rd from the Jets).

Andersson just happens to be the furthest along in his development but yes, Valimaki and Fox have a lot of upside as well. Valimaki looks like a true blue chipper and might be pushing for a spot as soon as September, looks to be molding into the modern 2 way defender teams highly covet. Kulak and Wotherspoon were always pretty vanilla as prospects and I don't think you'll find too many Flames fans who would put them in that group, though Kulak didn't look out of place at the NHL level. Kylington is a total wildcard, high ceiling low floor. Great athlete though, can absolutely fly.

Adam Fox has the most intrigue around him, going >ppg in the NCAA as a dman is basically unheard of. Very dynamic player with the puck. There is the concern of him not signing, but from what I've seen the Flames treat their prospects very well and offer a lot of incentives to stay.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You may have missed the obvious “future top 4 d man”. Cause Hamilton could possibly be dealt, and if not Hamonic will be let go or traded by the time Rasmus and Fox are both ready.

Are you talking trades this off-season or at some unspecified time in the future?

Right now Flames are D rich and poor elsewhere. Maybe it makes more sense to trade the older d men, or not. That's debatable. Depends whether that gets what they need when they need it.

Of course they could just go into next season with the same roster and a new coach and see what happens. That could cost another year down the drain but if Flames fans are OK with that ........